H&r 45/70 ??

[nanuk]

Ok, I bought an H&R in 45/70

I slugged the bore with a lead sinker

even push from the muzzle to the forearm bolster (??)
then it gets stiffer, but evenly stiff to the breech

I then slugged the muzzle using an impact technique

then slugged just ahead of the chamber using an impact technique

I get roughly the same measurements on all three slugs
.455/.459 or so...

I don't see anything in the bore to cause the stiffer push though.

is this rifle a candidate for firelapping? (I think so)

also, is this shallow of rifling 0.002 common on these? I'd not read that before.

it is 8 lands w/ RH twist. lands are (aprox) 0.070 wide. grooves 0.113 or so.

I need to yet do an impact slug for the chamber dimension.

[phaessler]

45-70Govt at .355/.359"?
maybe a typo?

[nanuk]

fixed it

[218bee]

Before Id fire lap it ...I'd shoot it and see how she does.
Dimensions look ok to me.

[Junior1942]

Before Id fire lap it ...I'd shoot it and see how she does.
Dimensions look ok to me.+1 on that advice. Why give already shallow lands artificial wear?

Both of my Handi 45-70 barrels like the Lee 450 FP as-cast in soft alloy. They also like the Lee 500 3R but not quite as much as the 450 FP. Both with slightly compressed Pyrodex or WC860, lubed felt wad, and good crimp. V = ~1150 fps.

[Gtek]

+2 on the advice. Maybe JB paste for polish (NO back and forth)chamber to muzzle take brush off, repeat. Mine get 325 "J"s in one and the others get 405 PB. Get the barrel hot and enjoy the chase! Gtek

[nanuk]

so the "Getting stiffer as the slug moves to the chamber" doesn't bother you guys?

I will slug it one more time and this time, I will certainly take much more effort to be exacting. Just to be sure.

another thing, are you guys seeing the shallow rifleing also?

[giz189]

I've got two. Handi with a short barrel and an 1871 BC. Both have .004 rifling. BC was .450/.454 dont remember on the Handi, but it was shallow too.

[dualsport]

Did you get it new? I just slugged mine, (H&R 45-70) just the muzzle, .452/.459. Never know 'til you try it, might shoot great. The tightness in the first half might just be slugging issues, maybe go the other direction and see if it changes anything. Let us know how it goes. They're fun guns, lots of versatility. Check out Paul Matthew's book, 'Forty Years with the 45-70'. Full of fun things to try.

[onondaga]

Could be insufficient lube causing the difference as you go. Slop the bore up good with GREASE. Oil is insufficient.

Gary

[Four Fingers of Death]

If it gets tighter towards the loud end, that is ok, but if it starts to get looser it is a rifled blunderbuss.

I don't slug them or do anything apart from clean the bore and check the screws. I then try them out, never know it might just work fine without any extra work. I got enough jobs to do without looking for more chores, lol.

[nanuk]

Could be insufficient lube causing the difference as you go. Slop the bore up good with GREASE. Oil is insufficient.

Gary

I will try that Gary. thanks for the reminder.

[dangerranger]

I just saw your other post. the new bufalo classics have a micro groove barrel. great for jacketed bullits but a little chalangeing for lead.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I was about to buy a Buff Classic when I tripped over a minty H&R Big Horn Trapdoor. I have put Pedersoli sights on it, nice rig. They bought out a neat looking H&R many years ago, the Shikari or something like that. Had a cleaning rod underneath the Bbl. My friend had one, used toload it up real hot, couldn't tell him. He never had any Problems, hopped in his little Ford Escort panel van every Friday at 3pm, drove virtually non stop to the high country in Victoria (about 430miles). Crashed in the back of the little van, up at sparrow fart, can of coke and a Mars bar (candy bar) and off into the hills. Fly camp on Sat night, can of baked neans for dinner, slug of rum out of his flask, old torch, dozen pages torn out of a dime novel before bed. Up at sparrow fart, warm can of coke and another candy bar, off hunting again, trekked back to the van, crashed for an hour or so, drove back to Sydney overnight, straight to work, occasionally filling the fridge in the staff canteen with deer meat. Real character, great rifle.

[leadman]

Sometimes the "tightness" is jacket fouling. also if this has the welded on foreend stud this could be a tight spot.

Always good to scrub the bore and oil it before slugging.

I had an older H&R Shikari in 45-70, actually a couple of them. Shot decent, rifling was not real deep. Still have a Shikari 44mag rechambered to 445 Super Mag.
If it is one of the older guns the reciever is cast iron so keep the pressures down.

[Simonpie]

+2 on the advice. Maybe JB paste for polish (NO back and forth)chamber to muzzle take brush off, repeat. Mine get 325 "J"s in one and the others get 405 PB. Get the barrel hot and enjoy the chase! Gtek

What's the reasoning on no back and forth?

[GMW]

I was about to buy a Buff Classic when I tripped over a minty H&R Big Horn Trapdoor. I have put Pedersoli sights on it, nice rig. They bought out a neat looking H&R many years ago, the Shikari or something like that. Had a cleaning rod underneath the Bbl. My friend had one, used toload it up real hot, couldn't tell him. He never had any Problems, hopped in his little Ford Escort panel van every Friday at 3pm, drove virtually non stop to the high country in Victoria (about 430miles). Crashed in the back of the little van, up at sparrow fart, can of coke and a Mars bar (candy bar) and off into the hills. Fly camp on Sat night, can of baked neans for dinner, slug of rum out of his flask, old torch, dozen pages torn out of a dime novel before bed. Up at sparrow fart, warm can of coke and another candy bar, off hunting again, trekked back to the van, crashed for an hour or so, drove back to Sydney overnight, straight to work, occasionally filling the fridge in the staff canteen with deer meat. Real character, great rifle.

Enjoyed the story!

[nanuk]

Sometimes the "tightness" is jacket fouling. also if this has the welded on foreend stud this could be a tight spot.

Always good to scrub the bore and oil it before slugging.

I had an older H&R Shikari in 45-70, actually a couple of them. Shot decent, rifling was not real deep. Still have a Shikari 44mag rechambered to 445 Super Mag.
If it is one of the older guns the reciever is cast iron so keep the pressures down.

leadman: Brand new, never been fired yet. And yes, there is tightness at the forearm boss.

but between the boss and the chamber, it is still tight. I'll clean it again, and grease it up and reslug it.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The Shikari was my mate's gun, I haven't seen him for years. You couldn't tell him, he used to load it up to the max. He came down to the range one day and let rip. After the first shot, I moved down to the other end and double checked that I had my safety glasses on. lol

I would be surprised if he ended up blowing it up or stretching it. I suggested that he wear a welder's mask and an apron for the flames.

[leadman]

The tightness could be from bluing in the barrel. Would not hurt to fire some j-word bullets in it or polish with JB.

You should be able to get a good idea of the bore size and then load and fire it with cast and recheck for tightness later. This way you cast, load, shoot, this is the way to enjoy a new rifle.

[giz189]

I just saw your other post. the new bufalo classics have a micro groove barrel. great for jacketed bullits but a little chalangeing for lead. How new is the BC with the microgrove barrel? Mine is not but about a year old and it doesn't have it. Just wondering. Oh and I have a 20 year or so old Marlin 1894S with MG rifling and it does good with cast. Just my .02 worth.

[NickSS]

I recently bought a new Pedersoli Sharps from Cabella's. It was one of the ones they were selling for $900 on sale. It has a bead blasted barrel but other than that is a regular pistol grip stock. When I got it I shot it with cast and black powder. Accuracy was so so and I was somewhat disappointed. I desided that maybe the bore needed some buffing but I did not want to fore lap it unless it was necessary. I found a box of 300 gr Jacketed bullets in my storage closet and loaded all 50 or them up with 27 gr of AA 5744. My groups started out at 3 inches and 100 yards but by the end of the box I was putting 10 round groups into less than 1.25 inches. When I tried it out with BP and cast bullets it was shooting like I wanted it to and was easy to clean. So you may want to try something similar to season your barrel.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I recently bought a new Pedersoli Sharps from Cabella's. It was one of the ones they were selling for $900 on sale. It has a bead blasted barrel but other than that is a regular pistol grip stock. When I got it I shot it with cast and black powder. Accuracy was so so and I was somewhat disappointed. I desided that maybe the bore needed some buffing but I did not want to fore lap it unless it was necessary. I found a box of 300 gr Jacketed bullets in my storage closet and loaded all 50 or them up with 27 gr of AA 5744. My groups started out at 3 inches and 100 yards but by the end of the box I was putting 10 round groups into less than 1.25 inches. When I tried it out with BP and cast bullets it was shooting like I wanted it to and was easy to clean. So you may want to try something similar to season your barrel.

Thats the way I run all my Bbls in. I have a new 375H&H which will pretty much see cast boolit usage exclusively, but it will see jacketed loads until it is as smooth as!

[dangerranger]

How new is the BC with the microgrove barrel? Mine is not but about a year old and it doesn't have it. Just wondering. Oh and I have a 20 year or so old Marlin 1894S with MG rifling and it does good with cast. Just my .02 worth.

new barrel came in march of this year. DR

[MBTcustom]

What's the reasoning on no back and forth?
You dont go back and forth, because every time you reverse direction, more material is removed. The barrel makers make their barrels about 34" (I think) so that they can cut off the portion that got the reversal. By the time you get done lapping in a barrel, you could have .001 inches larger at the beginning and the end of the stroke, (ie. the breech and the crown, the last place you would ever want your barrel to open up)

[mroliver77]

It would take forever and a day to "lap" .001 out of a barrel with JB paste. Try paper patching.

I looked down the barrel of a .45 Colt Handi rifle a couple years back. I think the rifling is etched in there it was so shallow! I picked upa newer .357 barrel for one of my NEF. Same deal. Mebbe it is a photograph of rifling. ;) It sure don't shoot worth a darn.
Jay.

[Catshooter]

mroliver,

I have heard of shallow rifilng in some of their barrels.

My .45 Colt's bore is lovely.

I'd send both of those back to the factory were they mine.


Cat

[nanuk]

I picked upa newer .357 barrel for one of my NEF. Same deal. Mebbe it is a photograph of rifling. ;) It sure don't shoot worth a darn.
Jay.


I'd love a 357 barrel.... if nothing else, a great treestand gun with J-words loaded to the max.