Discarded tires for sound baffles?

[Jim]

In the thread entitled "Shooting Range" in the Our Town section, Von Gruff mentioned making a baffle out of discarded tires. Seems like I've heard about that before.

Coupla' questions:

Any idea if small tires like utility trailer tires would work? I know where I can get my hands on quite a few of them.

Any idea how many would be required to make a dent in the sound?

Up in these hills, that muzzle blast bounces around for several seconds before it finally dissipates. I'd like to get it down to a decent BOOOMP.

[imashooter2]

For best sound attenuation, you'd want to stick the gun inside the tire tube as much as possible. Small tires would make that difficult and limit your field of vision / target placement.

[Jim]

OK, so bigger tires would give me a little more play room to get the rifle lined up on the target. Gotcha'. Any idea how many I might need to have lined up in a row to make this contraption work?

[MT Gianni]

Jim, I posted on that thread. My neighbor had 5-6 tires on a chain hanging. The muzzle would go inside the first tire from the bench. Report from a 30-06 was similar to a 22 rf. IIRC they were 15"-17" truck tires. I think with scrap wood you could easily build a platform for the tires to rest on rather than hang.

[ChuckJaxFL]

Keep a can of wasp spray nearby.

[zuke]

Keep a can of wasp spray nearby.

WD-40 work's also,and is a lot cheaper.

[John Taylor]

WD-40 work's also,and is a lot cheaper.

Soapy water is cheaper yet and works great. All insects don't have lungs and get their OX through their skin. The oil on their skin keeps them from drowning. The soap breaks down water tension and puts them down quick. Also a great idea for the kids wading pool, a few squirts of soap and the bugs die, plus the kids get a bath. Learned this from an old logger. He would take a pie tin and fill it with soapy water, put a stick across it with a small piece of meat on the stick. Wasp would go after the meat and as they flew away would get caught in the soap.
Not all soaps work so you need to try several. It's great target shooting in a squirt gun shooting wasps out of the air.

Wasp spray is a great defense item. Get it in an attackers eyes and he has to go to the hospital. Don't need a concealed permit for it.

[Jim]

OK, so half a dozen or so standard size tires on some kind of support system should knock down the sound significantly, right?

By the way, how did we go from building a sound baffle with tires to using hornet spray as a non permit required self defense method? Did I miss something?

[roysha]

OK, so half a dozen or so standard size tires on some kind of support system should knock down the sound significantly, right?

By the way, how did we go from building a sound baffle with tires to using hornet spray as a non permit required self defense method? Did I miss something?

Yup!! You missed something but for the life of me I don't know what it is either.[smilie=l:

Many years ago one of the magazines, I believe it was "Shooting Times" had an article about this. Later a caution was posted to the effect that unburned powder could accumulate in the tires and create an interesting moment. The fix was to make a hole in the bottom of each tire an inch or so in diameter, so the residue from firing could be flushed out. Also the bottom of the tires were left loose so they could be separated and let residue fall out at the same time the inside of the tires were flushed. I have no idea how ofter this needed to be done but I do recall that they suggested it be done at the end of a firing session so the water could evaporate.

[dragonrider]

If you search through back issues of Shooting times magazine you should find find an article by Rick Jamison (sp?) about a device similiar to what you envision but uses two 55 gallon drums. IIRC he lined it inside with insulation of some kind. I believe this would be easier than using tires and much less heavy. Probably 20 years back or so.

[Bill*]

By the way, how did we go from building a sound baffle with tires to using hornet spray as a non permit required self defense method? Did I miss something?


AHHHHH...the beauty of the internet. It's called thread drift.....Some of the best stuff I ever read was because of it.[smilie=l:

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Wasp spray is a great defense item. Get it in an attackers eyes and he has to go to the hospital. Don't need a concealed permit for it.

Awesome...2 or 3 bucks for a large can, that can spray 20+ feet.

[nanuk]

I remember Jamison building one using smaller tires, like 12" rim size in a coule 45gal drums. stuffed them in and shot through...

I don't remember anything about unburned powder and stuff tho

[L1A1Rocker]

Hummm. . .


National Firearms Act Definitions
Silencer

26 U.S.C. § 5845(a)(7)

For the purposes of the National Firearms Act the term Silencer is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(24)

The term “Firearm Silencer” or “Firearm Muffler” means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/importation-verification/firearms-verification-nfa-silencer.html


I know it seems absurd but. . .

[tomme boy]

It would have to be attached to the gun to be considered a silencer.

[L1A1Rocker]

It would have to be attached to the gun to be considered a silencer.

You would think so (and I would believe it to be so) but no where in the definition does it say anything about it being attached or not. "any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm" If a person designs and builds something (a device) that is intended to muffle the report of a firearm, have they not met this definition?

[L1A1Rocker]

Found an ATF letter on the subject.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u320/ranb40/suppressors/ATFsilencerletterpg1a.jpg

[Von Gruff]

Many years ago one of the magazines, I believe it was "Shooting Times" had an article about this. Later a caution was posted to the effect that unburned powder could accumulate in the tires and create an interesting moment. The fix was to make a hole in the bottom of each tire an inch or so in diameter, so the residue from firing could be flushed out.

This is an excellent tip as it would also take care of the inevitable water in the tyre from rain.

If the tyre row is set up to come right up to you bench, either permanent or temporary, the rifle barrel would enter the first tyre and the size of the tyre is not so critical, but while a small car tyre does work, the larger size and deeper side walls of the small truck tyres work better. The deeper side wall increases the volume of expansion area per tyre.They also increase the "view"of the shooter.

Von Gruff.

[Von Gruff]

Found an ATF letter on the subject.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u320/ranb40/suppressors/ATFsilencerletterpg1a.jpg

I would strongly suguest that the sound supression of the tyre row is so position and directionally specific that it could not justifiably be bought under this banner. This seems to be the position of the ATF.

Especially as it is directed at your "safe zone" or backstop that under no other situation than target shooting at your range could it be used.
The center paragraph is so vague that it could be used to include any number of "things" that we commonally have in all of our sheds that I believe it could not be defended simply on the stupidity of the wording.

Von Gruff.

[TCLouis]

The drift to wasps/wasp spray is because as any of us that have built such a device have found, one day in the future when you let go with a round, there will be a swarm of MAD wasps in short order.

[bob208]

but if you let the unbruned powder build up when it flashed it would take care of the bee problem.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

This is the best thread ever !!!!

[Jim]

but if you let the unbruned powder build up when it flashed it would take care of the bee problem.

http://jgcphotos.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/mushroom_cloud-e1307407129480.jpg

[Longwood]

I thought there were a few REAL men on here.:confused:
BBQ starter, BBQ lighter, Super Soaker.[smilie=w:

[Rmfcasey]

Wd 40 works better for wasps if you use it as a flame thrower by lighting the stream .
Also Wd 40 or starter fluid works this same way to set the bead on tires that are being stubborn about seating. So now the thread is drifting back to tires.
Rmfcasey

[white eagle]

I went to check with my ww buddy today and asked if he had any junk tires
I picked up 4 so we will see how it works
I also though about the barrel but don't know where to find one of those

[tomme boy]

Ether works better than wd40. Thats what we used to use at a service station I worked at in the 80's. Hit the air pedal an throw a match. Worked every time.

[Fishman]

I built one in a wooden frame with six tires 15" as I recall. Works well for high powered rifles but it isn't super effective. You definitely need ear protection. The sharp crack is attenuated and the report sounds more like a 9mm shot the same time as someone hits a huge drum with a rubber covered steel hammer. Hard to explain. But it definitely helps. Caution is warranted on first shot because dust etc will blow back in your face. never any wasps but I do keep a spray can handy for any bad guys since ive heard it's more effective than a 30-06 :)

[MT Gianni]

You would think so (and I would believe it to be so) but no where in the definition does it say anything about it being attached or not. "any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm" If a person designs and builds something (a device) that is intended to muffle the report of a firearm, have they not met this definition?

A building would also meet that definition. I think the letter is correct.

[geargnasher]

What if the first tire was small like a 12", then about three 16" load-range "E" heavy pickup tires, then a series of three or four smaller tires on the front, that way the blast would be more contained. Poke the barrel in a few inches past the inside sidewall of the first, small, tire.

Something that occured to me right off with VG's post in WE's thread is how much such a device would improve the safety of any rifle range by creating a psychological as well as physical barrier to shooting over the berm/backstop/hill/quarryrim/whatever. It's amazing what a low sheet metal roof over the rifle bench will do for range safety. It could be easily shot through accidentally, but a subconscious mind reasonably well trained in gun safety basics will automatically interpret it as something not to point the gun at, unlike blue sky. A low roof, RR tie tunnel, etc. all help keep muzzles directed downrange at all times and not pointed up. The tire tunnel would tend to force the muzzle in a target direction once on the bench, and would also serve as a nice "break", or "brake" :D for chronographs and tend to make chrono tripod setup easier each session.

Gear

[imashooter2]

I went to check with my ww buddy today and asked if he had any junk tires
I picked up 4 so we will see how it works
I also though about the barrel but don't know where to find one of those

Not much of a tunnel in 4 tires. To be effective, I'd think you would need at least twice that many.

[Rick Hodges]

I would put the holes in the bottom to make sure no water can collect in there. I sure don't need another place for mosquito's to breed.

[mold maker]

Another safety issue is created by the tire tunnel. By severely limiting the field of view, through the tunnel, you create a condition where the shooter can't see someone or something approaching the line of fire.
This would at the very least require, a second person watching from behind the shooter.

[Jim]

Another safety issue is created by the tire tunnel. By severely limiting the field of view, through the tunnel, you create a condition where the shooter can't see someone or something approaching the line of fire.
This would at the very least require, a second person watching from behind the shooter.

That's a good point, especially on public ranges and/or where there are others present. I certainly would not condone complacency toward safety, but a spotter might not be needed on private property, especially when it's in a secluded setting. Just the same, as you said, it is always wise to be observant for unforeseen circumstances.

[shotman]

I like the wasp spray deal . Then shoot , might not have to worry about wasps

[roysha]

For crying out loud! You are NOT sitting/standing in the tires and shooting, but behind them with the barrel poked inside. If your peripheral vision is so bad that you can't see someone walking toward you from the side and/or if they are so stupid as to walk into a dangerous situation, (seeing someone with a gun and hearing the report, in spite of the baffle) then perhaps someone is a good candidate for the "Darwin" theory.

If you are shooting on your property then there should be no question on your part as to who/what is where. If you are big enough and strong enough to lug one of these 8-16 tire monstrosities to someplace public than perhaps a spotter is warranted. However, as I understand it, the need for this baffle is in one's own neighborhood to hold down the noise so as to not antagonize the neighbors.

Of course safe shooting practices should be used at all times but this is a little beyond, especially at a public shooting range where NO ONE is supposed to be ahead of the firing line unless the range is made safe by a "cease fire" command to allow target change or whatever. If they are in front of the firing line see above note regarding "Darwin"

[mold maker]

Yes Darwin, is a good name for those that would walk in front, under the circumstances you gave. But even Darwin's relatives would sue your hiny off, not to mention what would go on in your head if it happened.
First rule of shooting is "Never point your gun at anything you don't intend to kill". That includes being absolutely sure of what else is, or might be in the bullet path. If you shoot through even a short tunnel, it has created a blind spot.
If you shoot through or past a blind spot and someone gets hit, It aint their fault, Darwin included. It is you who will answer to the judge.

[L1A1Rocker]

A building would also meet that definition. I think the letter is correct.

A building would not meet that definition. A building is not "designed to muffle the report of a fire arm", the operative word being, design. But I agree, the letter is correct and in keeping with what would be the intent of the law.

[Jim]

For crying out loud!.....

Ummm, Roysha, you OK, buddy? I understand you might not agree with some of the things that have been said, but we're just chattin', OK? Nothin' to get bowed up about.

[Chicken Thief]

I think some strips of glasswool insulation placed inside the tires would help with attenuation?
Normally the muzzleblast "reaches" something like 5-10ft according to the degree of magnum.
Oh and i do think this tire thing and muzzle breakes are a no mix?

[Von Gruff]

I think some strips of glasswool insulation placed inside the tires would help with attenuation?

Unless you are going to cover the tyer tunnel to keep water from them the glass wool would hold a lot and be a real nuicence, even with a hole cut in the bottom. I think they would introduce more difficulties than they would help.

Oh and i do think this tire thing and muzzle breakes are a no mix?

My ears hurt at just the thought of this. I shot my nfriends 338 LM with the muzzle brake and I would rather shoot it nekid any day

Come on guys, you know I meant the rifle, not me.

Von Gruff

[Longwood]

Maybe a bunch of holes in the tires made with a small hole saw to relieve the pressure surge. It may help to put most of them pointed away from the irritated neighbors if possible. The dealers have to pay to get rid of them around here so you may have to pay a little to give back your experiments if they fail.
I good way to measure the effect is with a video camera and your video editing program.

[geargnasher]

Another safety issue is created by the tire tunnel. By severely limiting the field of view, through the tunnel, you create a condition where the shooter can't see someone or something approaching the line of fire.
This would at the very least require, a second person watching from behind the shooter.

Not trying to flame you, but tell me, next time you snuggle in behind your favorite scoped rifle on the bench, how much periphery do YOU have? You might be able to see with your non-sighting eye, but are you really observing anything other than the target and crosshairs the moment before you pull the trigger? If someone walks through your sight picture 15 feet in front of you, will you notice until they fill it?

I don't feel that the tire tunnel would be that big of an obstruction, but it depends a lot on your particular range and how you set it up. As always, safety and common sense must prevail.

Gear

[pdawg_shooter]

Out at my place I have a 5" in and out, 10" diameter, 52" long truck muffler on a 2x4 stand in front of my bench. Two wraps of old rubber backed carpet wrapped around helps some also. One from a truck salvage yard runs about 25/30 dollars and works well.

[firefly1957]

Make sure you do not use a high recoiling gun in such a device if there is a chance it will hit the top. Handguns are really bad about hitting objects above them upon firing.
Expect items to come back at you anything in the tires will be likely to move from blast wave.

[pdawg_shooter]

Well, I use mine on a 300RUM, 45-70 and .458 Win mag with no problems. Stick the muzzle in 4 or 5 inches. Recoil kicks me back before the muzzle rises enough to hit.

[TCLouis]

Wear good ear protection when ya do this.

I can attest to this requirement.

[Artful]

What did you say?

I had like 8 15" car tires bolted to together and used it to keep the neighbors from complaining
(used to go down to the creek and shoot but evidently the surface down there helps the sound travel and my neighbors swore amplified it.)

It won't help the sound to you but people a little ways away really seem to appreciate it.

I just had the tires on the ground and a carpet to lay on. Watch your back stop as I had one rebound and I heard it go overhead and it whistled by a neighor - evidently a a knot in the wood was strong enough to make it rebound - after that I switched to box of papers to shoot into.