Composite Cast Boolits

[Hickory]

Years ago Lyman produced some composite boolit moulds.
They consisted of two parts; The base and the nose section.
They were cast separately with different alloy and epoxied together.

The base was to be cast with a hard alloy, to help prevent leading and could be driven at a higher velocity.
While the nose section would be cast with soft or pure lead to aid in expansion.

All were plain base. And they came in three calibers, and were modeled after existing boolit moulds.
The 357 composite mould #358624 was the same as the 358429.
The 44 caliber composite mould #429625 was the same as the 429421
The 45 caliber composite mould #454626 was the same as the 454424

The "640" series has proven to be an accurate and deadly boolit on whitetail-deer. I was wondering if there would be any interest in a composite boolit in a 44 caliber, Lyman's GC 429640 Devastator?

Give me some arguments for or against this idea.

[HollowPoint]

It sounds like you've come up with yet another way of making cast bullet soft-points.

I really have no arguments against your method. If it achieves the desired effect then, more power to you.

Thus far I've noticed that there are at least two or three other ways to make the type of bullets you describe. The one I use is done with a specialty Soft-Pointing tool.

HollowPoint

[white eagle]

Hiram
had a mold similar to that for sale in the swap section
I do believe it was the nose section
good idea in my book

[Shuz]

Years ago Lyman produced some composite boolit moulds.
They consisted of two parts; The base and the nose section.
They were cast separately with different alloy and epoxied together.

The base was to be cast with a hard alloy, to help prevent leading and could be driven at a higher velocity.
While the nose section would be cast with soft or pure lead to aid in expansion.

All were plain base. And they came in three calibers, and were modeled after existing boolit moulds.
The 357 composite mould #358624 was the same as the 358429.
The 44 caliber composite mould #429625 was the same as the 429421
The 45 caliber composite mould #454626 was the same as the 454424

The "640" series has proven to be an accurate and deadly boolit on whitetail-deer. I was wondering if there would be any interest in a composite boolit in a 44 caliber, Lyman's GC 429640 Devastator?

Give me some arguments for or against this idea.

Years ago I bought the Lyman composite 429625 at a gun show. Try as I might, I could never find an adhesive or glue that would keep the nose section from jumping out of the rear portion when fired in my 44 mag revolvers. The jump was so bad that it would tie up the cylinder and keep it from revolving.
Then I got a "bright idea": Why not try dropping the soft nose section, with it's little tail into an up to temperature 429421 mould and cast a harder alloy behind it.? Believe me, it works quite well, but it is rather time consuming and somewhat tedious to place the nose section into a hot mould. The good news is that the hot swirling metal grabs onto the little tail piece and bonds the two together so that the boolits, when fired, no longer jump from the cases. This little nose section also works for the Lyman 429650 and 429244 when composites are desired.--Shuz

[Dframe]

I remember those. Seems they had a lot of potential but were labor intensive.

[Hickory]

I remember those. Seems they had a lot of potential but were labor intensive.

Yes, they would be labor intensive, but for hunting purposes you'd only need a few.
If we could get NOE to build a 4 cavity mould that would cast a plain base and a gas check base along with a solid point and a hollow point the list of combinations would be endless, when using different alloys.

[Von Gruff]

A simpler way may be the way I do it. I cast a bunch of boolits in the 'soft' alloy and in my case I use 50/50 ww/ Pb which I use for plinking. I take as many as I want to use for soft nosing and cut them to common length.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/casting002.jpg

I trim the fine hack saw rags and fire up the lino pot. Put a soft nose in the mould.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/casting004.jpg

Put the mould in the melt for 30-40 seconds and fill with lino.
I have a two part boolit with 65gn of soft nose and 100gn hard shank. They are melted together and DO NOT seperate on contact. Get great expansion and reliable kills on animals
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/casting027.jpg

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/008.jpg

I only need a few for a seasons hunting and it certainly beats buying a mould especially for the noses.

Von Gruff.

[PAT303]

I do the same only I have two melters going and pour in a measured amount of lead,let it sit for 20sec's,then pour in the harder alloy. Pat

[Mike W1]

LBT used to produce a little rig that dropped a set amount of one alloy and then you filled with another alloy. Don't have any idea how well they worked but are long since out of production I believe.

[williamwaco]

I am sure this would be a lot of fun to play with but it would also be a lot of work for very little gain. There is a reason these molds are no longer around. Even Lyman says they didn't work well.

Back in the '60s, many shooters were casting soft hollow points using the sadly no longer available Lyman hollow point molds. My favorite was the 429421. Cast from 1-16 alloy they were deadly accurate using maximum .44 mag loads and they expanded from .429 up to .80 to .90 with high weight retention - all the base and most of the point..

You would have much better results with a high quality real hollow point mold from one of the group buys. Or occasionally you can find one on EBAY.

And yes I AM aware of the current Lyman 'devastator' dimple point molds.
I find them a little underwhelming.

[geargnasher]

WW, do you call this "a little underwhelming"?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15918&d=1253321017

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15917&d=1253320401

Lyman 452374 Devastator with factory spud, 840 fps out of a 4" Kimber and the right alloy.

Gear

[HARRYMPOPE]

I had one in 44 and 357 and expansion was good but accuracy was less than with solid versions



HMP

[Shuz]

Gear--I have used the 429640 Devastator in the .44 mag on deer and have also been very pleased with the results. My expansion on the recovered boolit was not as large as yours, but it "worked". My alloy was ww+1% tin.
Yours also appears to have a plain base, correct? Mine is, and further confirms, for me at least, that gas checks are not needed in .44 mag as long as alloy and boolit fit to the gun are correct.

[geargnasher]

The 452374 is a PB, HP version of the classic Lyman .45 ACP "ball" copy. I've found it to be, hands down, the most accurate .45 boolit I have for the 1911 platform. As with any HP design, you have to balance the velocity and the alloy together with the HP cavity dimensions or you'll have fragmentation instead of expansion.

Gear

[pdawg_shooter]

I just cast mine soft and paper patch them for performance.

[williamwaco]

================================================== =============


WW, do you call this "a little underwhelming"?

Lyman 452374 Devastator with factory spud, 840 fps out of a 4" Kimber and the right alloy.

Gear

================================================== =============

YIKES !

I officially retract everything I ever said about that bullet.

I have not seen that kind of results elsewhere.

Would you be willing to share the formula for the "right alloy"?

[geargnasher]

For that one, I've done several successful batches that all came out about the same, and a few things that didn't work well at all. Here's a good forumula from my notes on the last batch I used: 50/50 clip-on automotive wheel weights (that make around 13-14 bhn air-cooled boolits) and soft, unpainted stick-ons (that make about 7 bhn cast into air-cooled boolits), about 1% added tin after mixing the 50/50, boolits were air-cooled and aged at least a month.

The cavernous hollow point cavity and thin nose requires a fairly soft, malleable alloy with some tin in it to both expand well and shoot well in my 1911s and not destroy the noses during feeding or in the mag during firing.

For lots of similar results, do a search for "hollow point" here, there are a few members that have taken the custom-designed faceted pin to a new dimension. Also check out hollowpointmold dot com for more HP stuff, including some tests with lots of good pictures including some high-velocity pistol hollowpoint design tests.

But more on topic, since I started listening to some of the eggspurts here, I much prefer a homogenous, low-antimony, heat-treated boolit for 30 caliber rifle hunting, although I'm seeing the need currently for a softnose 340-grain .45 in one of my rifles........

Gear

[2ndAmendmentNut]

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=109041

An old thread of mine, might get some new interest... Pictures on page two.