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Red River Rick
12-30-2006, 02:21 PM
I'm looking for some info on the 450-400 Express BP (2 3/8"). I have a Martini-Enfield action that I'd like to rebarrel and have been looking at this cartridge.

I already have a couple of rifles chambered for the .577-.450 and the
.45-70 and would like something that will function and feed properly in the Martini action other than the usual.

I have an abundant supply of .348 brass and was anticipating using this brass to form the case's for the 450-400 BP 2 3/8".

Any info or feedback would be appreciatted.

RRR

martinibelgian
12-30-2006, 05:28 PM
It has been done, and would indeed be a dandy BP round indeed - FWIW, the round still exists and is manufactured, albeit under another name in Switzerland - something like 10.3 x 60R Swiss. So brass is still available in europe, actually (RWS) - and it was a round chambered in Martini's. I think it was Andreas Baumkircher in Germany who made once a run of Rolling block target rifles for this round.
Another option would be the 500/450 #2 Musket, a round with also lots of history as military, target shooting and hunting round - call it a BN 45-90, 45-100 maybe. I have a soft spot for this one... It is also around made to fit in the Martini action.

1 Potential problem though - unless I am mistaken, .348 win brass is too short at 2.255" for the 450/400 2 3/8 which according to my data uses a case 2.36". Still, brass can be found or converted if needed. Good luck with your project!
http://users.pandora.be/Gert.Claes1/#2MUSKET.JPG

Boz330
12-31-2006, 04:26 PM
You might try Buffalo Arms for the brass. I just got some 8MM X 58 Danish which was made from 45-70 brass which was stretched. I'm not sure how they do it but it works.

Bob

Red River Rick
01-01-2007, 02:22 AM
Boz330:

I took your advice and checked out Buffalo Arms, lots of brass available for the cartridges I'm interested in. Thanks.

Martinibelgian:

Your correct about the .348 Win. cases being to short for the 450-400 BPE 2 3/8". I was more concerned with the cartridge base diameter and would live with short neck. But why bother when commercial brass is available.

Your thoughts on the 500-450 #2 are appealing. Brass and dies are readily available for this round as well. The 500-450 BPE round is probably to long, with a case length of 3 1/4", and will doubtfully not work in the Martini action.

I have a MK4 long lever, chambered in 45-70. I'm thinking, all that would be required is to recut the chamber and do some minor work on the extractor.

The 500-450 #2 uses a .451 diameter boolit and my barrel mic's out at approx.0.4585". Rate of twist 1-20", 6 land and 6 groove. What kind of problems do you think I'd be running into with this combo?

My next move would be to try and obtain a chamber reamer.

Thanks for your input, grealtly appreciated.

RRR

martinibelgian
01-01-2007, 05:16 AM
Rick,

I see you have an old Edition of CoTW : I have 2 original #2 Muskets, and both run .450 / .457 land/groove, so a .457/.458 bullet is just about perfect for the round - all you need is a rechambering job. Typically, you should be able to easily use about 80-85grs of Swiss powder without compression behind a 500gr bullet (I wouldn't go too much over that with your 1:20" twist if you intend to shoot the longer ranges).
FWIW, my original rifles both shoot quite well - which probably comes from both the tight bores and the quite tight chambers. For my bonehill sporter, I don't even have to size my brass when reloading.... So if you're going to spec a reamer, make sure you have a tight-necked one, spec'd for the brass you intend to use. I still shoot turned cases in my Steyr (the Bonehill won't handle them, chamber too tight) as they give me just about a perfect fit with its chamber. Tolerance-wise, there is a day and night difference between #2 Musket and 577-450!
FWIW, a #2 Musket match rifle is also in the works for me...
That will make me a military rifle (The Steyr), a sporter (The Bonehill) and a match rifle, all Martini's, all #2 Musket... :-D
http://users.pandora.be/Gert.Claes1/Bonehill_action_right.jpg The pic is the Bonehill sporter - well worn, but still a tackdriver. I use it to shoot running deer comps once a year...

Red River Rick
01-01-2007, 05:35 PM
Martinibelgian:

So my quest begins. Brass & dies first, and then the chamber reamer.

Your Bonehill Sporter look very nice, original, considering it's age. A piece of workmanship at it's finest.

Unfortunately, my Martini-Enfields aren't original anymore, both made by Enfield. I am trying my best to rejuevenate some life back into these fine actions. The MK 4 has a heavy 1 1/16" half round half octagon barrel, 24 inch. It's heavy as hell. When the time comes to recut the chamber, I'll recontour the exterior somewhat to reduce weight.

As for the MK 2 action, I'll wait awhile and concentrate on the #2 Musket round. If that succeeds, I will most certainly rebarrel the MK 2 action in the 450-400 BPE 2 3/8" cartridge.

Thanks.
RRR