Trouble with my pet load

[Gun_Nut_2k1]

I load a 127 grain cowboy style lead bullet over 5 grains of Universal over standard non mag primers. I have used this load for years. I have always used my Lee Pro 1000. I check powder throws randomly and it is always within .1 of a grain of powder. I was using the last of some 10 year old powder to load up rounds for my Marlin 1894 last night. When I got to the range today I noticed something very odd. I was getting erratic velocities from the rifle. Nothing too extreme just not hitting POA on the occasional shot. When I tried them out of a Smith M28 I could hear some of the rounds making a "Poofing" rather than "banging" sound. These rounds where hitting 40 feet closer than others. My powder smells fine with only a slightly darker color than my new can of Uni. Otherwise the powder appears fine. Is this just a bit of powder gone bad or what? What should I look for here guys?

[lylejb]

If the powder was stored inside the house, 10 years shouldn't be a problem. If the powder was stored in uncontroled conditions, i.e. damp / frozen in the winter and baked in the summer, It might be a problem.

Pour out some of this powder on a sheet of white paper, and look for any rust colored dust. If you have that, it's bad news.

Also, smell the powder. If it has an acid / acidic smell, that's more bad news. It should have at least some of the alcohol / acetone solvent smell left.

I would look for oil or mositure comtanimation before I worried about the powder.

I Know you said you checked random powder drops, and they were good, but the first thing I thought of was light charges. Double check your measure and any linkage / parts that run it.

2 weeks ago, I was loading some 30-30, and used up the last of a can of IMR4895. The lot number was from 1979. It shot fine.

[mroliver77]

You state that you were using the "last" of some powder. Was the powder measure perhaps getting very low on powder? My Lee disk powder measure works good but can give erratic results when getting low on powder. Pull a few down and weigh them to find out.

I have only been loading for 30 some years. I have powder that we bought off an estate that was old in 1980. I have NEVER had powder go bad yet. The heat you have in AZ could make it worse depending on storage conditions. Moist primers should not be an issue there? Two different guns doing this tells us it is a problem with the cartridge and not the gun.

Load a few with the new powder to compare. A chronograph can sometimes help especially if a load is marginal. Any little change could throw a marginal load over the performance edge. I was shooting some WC820 in my .44 mag and one day I started getting squibs and misfires. Well it was a marginal load at summer temps. In the late fall weather I needed more powder, heavier boolit or a stronger primer. Mag primers solved the problem but from now on I will use 2400 for that level of loading and keep the 820 for heavy loads or rifle loads.
Jay

[skeet1]

Mroliver77 gave some good advice. Check some of your ammo for light charges.

Ken

[Gun_Nut_2k1]

Thanks for the replies guys! Lets see here. Powder was kept inside my house but I do live in AZ and it does get very very hot here. We use a swamp cooler but the can was stored with the cap tight and in a cool dry place. First thing I did when I got home was inspect the Auto disc and then I cleaned it. The hopper is 3/4 full so it should still have enough to feed reliably. I will check 20 drops to make sure but this tool has been very reliable. Moist primers could be part of my problem now that you mention it. With a swamp cooler running pretty much all day and most of the night I could have gotten some moisture in the exposed primers in the feed shoot. I was also not using Magnum primers so maybe the combination could be causing this. I am off to check those throws and double check a need for mag primers in this load. Thanks again guys!

[Rico1950]

No need for magnum primers with Universal. Damp primers sounds like the culprit.

[mroliver77]

I just mentioned the mag primers were the answer to one of my problems with a SLOW BALL POWDER. I never meant to suggest it as a fix for you.

An air conditioner will dry the air in a room. I know little about swamp coolers. Will they raise the humidity in the house?
Jay

[Gun_Nut_2k1]

Ok I loaded up 50 rounds this morning using the new can of Uni. I kept the settings the same and checked twenty throws. They all threw at 5.2-5.3 with this powder. Why would the weight change from one can to the next? I did not get to try them but I will report back asap. I kept all other factors the same. I used the same lot of primers and the same settings. If I am still getting the velocity changes I will change primers and go from there. The change is throw weight still has me wondering.

[polara426sh]

The change in throw weight is probably due to the new lot of powder having slightly smaller granules of powder. Powder measures throw charges by volume, so with a smaller granule there will be less air space in the charge, therefore more powder.

[Moonie]

I just mentioned the mag primers were the answer to one of my problems with a SLOW BALL POWDER. I never meant to suggest it as a fix for you.

An air conditioner will dry the air in a room. I know little about swamp coolers. Will they raise the humidity in the house?
Jay

Swamp coolers work off of evaporation, YES they will raise the humidity, significantly.

Incoming air passes through a grass mat that has water streaming over/down it. Evaporation cools the incoming air.

I worked for a number of years in the dry cleaning industry, AC units are not economical in an environment that is heated all day long by steam. A typical dry cleaning establishment is 10-15 degrees F hotter inside than outside, without the swamp coolers it would be MUCH worse.

[Gun_Nut_2k1]

Just got back from the range a couple hours ago. As I said I loaded 50 rounds up with new powder being the only change. They fired beautifully. No leading. Worked great in the Marlin and my buddies M28. Very accurate and clean. I have never seen such a radical change just by using new powder. I must have somehow contaminated the old powder. Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys!

[leadman]

I have seen small particles of powder, along with almost a dust at the bottom of large powder containers. Could this have been an issue?

I have been having issues with static electricity on my measures here in Phoenix. I load in my garage with a swamp cooler on but still had to wipe the inside of my measures with a dryer sheet.
I had to check every charge out of my Lee Pro disk measure on the Turret press.
Humidity in June was around 2% if IRC.

[Olevern]

Pour out some of this powder on a sheet of white paper, and look for any rust colored dust. If you have that, it's bad news.

Also, smell the powder. If it has an acid / acidic smell, that's more bad news. It should have at least some of the alcohol / acetone solvent smell left.

.

I loaded up some old IMR4198 yesterday and noticed some brown colored dust rising when I put it in the powder dribbler. Smelled the powder, nothing unusual there. Loaded it and fired the 20 of test loads and didn't notice anything unusual about ignition or recoil in the .45-70. Wonder if I should discard this powder? It was in the old metal can and had a price of $14.95 on it.

Sorry for hijacking your thread, mate.

[Gun_Nut_2k1]

Sorry for hijacking your thread, mate.

Not at all man! These guys are the load masters.


I just loaded some more boomers for my carbine. 21.7 grains of Win 296 under a 125grain JHP. The sticker on the Speer box said $4. It was a hundred round box. LOL What I wouldn't give for those days again.