44 Mag data issues

[Little Big Oz]

I bought a 5 1/2" SS Super Blackhawk a couple of months ago. I tried bullets from a friend's RCBS 44-245-SWC mold and lower-end loads from Lyman's 47th reloading manual for the 429421 with 3 different powders. I tried 11.0 gr Unique, 16.0 gr Blue Dot, and 20.0 gr 2400. Recoil was much higher than I expected, given what appeared to be conservative powder charges. I did not chronograph these loads.

The Alliant Reloader's Guide gives 11.0 gr max for Unique, and 20.0 gr max for 2400 with a 250 gr Keith, so I decided to try loads using 10% less and work up from there. This gave 10.0 gr Unique and 18.0 gr 2400.

I also read Mr. Larry Gibson's reports in the Stickies section and decided to try 14.5 gr Blue Dot as well. His report mentioned that Lyman had changed the data for the 429421, so I bought their 49th Reloading Handbook. Thank you to Mr. Gibson for your detailed reports and insights.

I chronographed my new "starting loads" with a 250 gr Keith from Magnus and got the following results:

10.0 gr Unique - AVE 1108 fps/ES 35/SD 10
Lyman 49th gives 9.8 gr at 912 fps and 13.0 gr at 1147 fps

14.5 gr Blue Dot - AVE 1198 fps/ES 80/SD 23
Lyman 49th gives 14.5 gr at 1034 fps and 16.0 gr at 1194 fps

18.0 gr 2400 - AVE 1220 fps/ES 48/SD 14
Lyman 49th gives 18.5 gr at 1087 fps and 20.6 gr at 1248 fps

I recognize that the Lyman data was obtained with a 4" bbl and universal receiver, and that the bullet I used has some very minor differences from the 429421, but I am surprised at the different results.

10.0 gr Unique in my gun approaches the velocity that Lyman obtained with 13.0 gr. This load was pretty mild.

14.5 gr Blue Dot in my gun matches the velocity that Lyman obtained with 16.0 gr. This load recoiled more than the 10.0 gr Unique load, but wasn't bad.

18.0 gr 2400 in my gun nearly matches the velocity that Lyman obtained with 20.6 gr. This load recoiled more than the load with 14.5 gr Blue Dot. Not too bad, but a little more than I find pleasant after 2-3 cylinders' worth.

Does anything look out-of-line with my analysis? Do my velocities look out-of-line given any of your experiences?

Thanks for your help. I hope to start casting my own bullets soon, but am just now starting to do my homework so I can start off right.

[btroj]

It may have ALOT to do with cylinder throat and barrel measurements. Tight throats and a tighter barrel can increase velocity with a good fitting bullet.
I can shoot Lyman 429421 in my SRH and when compared to a fatter bullet of similar design from a group buy I get over 100 fps more from the fatter bullet.

I would increase charges until you reach the same max velocity Lyman got. To me that means you have reached a similar pressure as their max.

Your data is a great example of why you must work up loads for your gun.

[Bass Ackward]

I am surprised at the different results.


Well you better get over that quick.

Ever hear the reloader's creed: Start low and work up.

Or if you change any component start low and work up.

Now you understand where those come from. Anyway, welcome to the asylum.

[Little Big Oz]

btroj - I guess I'm at max with these loads in this gun. Thanks for your input. 100 fps with the fatter bullet is more than I would have expected.

Bass - you're right. Start low and work up. Unfortunately that's what I thought I was doing with the first Lyman data I used. Didn't realize at the time that it was outdated. Thanks for the welcome.

The chronograph really pays off.

[Bass Ackward]

Unfortunately that's what I thought I was doing with the first Lyman data I used. Didn't realize at the time that it was outdated. Thanks for the welcome.

The chronograph really pays off.


I my opinion, you have one of the more difficult scenarios to begin cast boolits with. The Lyman data is not obsolete. It's just not pertinent to that gun.

You will have to go your own way. Or find load data closer to what you have.

But search for slugging and make sure that you don't have a mechanical reason that can / should be corrected.

[bhn22]

Every gun is a rule unto itself. Also please remember that may environmental factors influence your results, temperature plays a big role in pressure levels, as can humidity. Other issues include bullet hardness, powder lots, primer lots, the case used, chamber dimensions, bore dimensions. cylinder timing. even the strength of the hammer spring has been show to cause variations. And this hasty list is just the tip of the iceberg. Why, you can even expect variations depending on how hot your gun is, and how long the ammunition sat in the hot chamber before you fired it.

[Heavy lead]

The chronograph really pays off.

Wouldn't be without one for developing loads, rifle, pistol, J's or boos.

[Little Big Oz]

Not familiar with J's. I'm still a newbie. Means jacketed???

[nicholst55]

Not familiar with J's. I'm still a newbie. Means jacketed???

Js, J-word, and 'full-length gas checks' are all terms used to indicate jacketed bullets by cast boolit shooters. There are others, but these are probably the most common.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I have owned only 2 44 mags. ( wish I never sold the Ruger SBH), those loads you listed were mild in both. So I believe you are totally safe in using them.:Fire::Fire:

[pop-gunner]

Your Unique experience is much like mine.
I'm loading 10gr under a 240gr Dardas cast bullet for 1107fps in my 4 inch 29-2.
11gr under a Hornady XTP goes 1170fps in the same gun and 1230 in my 6 inch 29-5.
This is a good bit faster that I expected from this load after reading the published information.

[Three44s]

When I load Unique behind 250 gr. boolits in a .44 mag I use 8-8.5 gr.

If I want it cleaner ..... I use a magnum primer.

If I want more power ..... I step up to HS-6.

The result is a better recoil outcome.

Three 44s

[leadman]

Blue Dot powder has changed in burning rate also. It was my go-to powder for many years. Most of my loads in the 13 to 16gr range I have reduced by 1 grain.

[Little Big Oz]

Thanks for the additional replies. What surprised me the most was how much the Lyman data changed between the 47th and 49th editions. Must be a sign of getting old and time flying by. The 47th was published in 1992. Seems like only yesterday. I may need to revisit some of the loads I've used for the last 16-17 years.

I would say that the reduction in their recommended charge weights for Blue Dot is consistent with leadman's observations.

I tried a couple of heavier charges with Blue Dot and got the following results, again with a 250 gr Keith bullet:

15.0 gr Blue Dot gave 1239 fps.
15.5 gr gave 1254 fps.

Recoil was not significantly more noticeable than with 14.5 gr Blue Dot. I don't think a paper target or whitetail would be impressed with the extra 56 fps that the extra grain of powder provides. The SD went down as the charge went up, but I saw no noticeable improvement in accuracy.

10.0 gr Unique in my gun was about as pleasant as it could be.

[ColColt]

Time was I used Unique for every handgun I owned be it a 38, 357 44 Special or magnum or the 45 Auto. I still use it in the 45 Auto but it's been supplanted by Universal in all other calibers. I like the groups I get with 8-9 gr of Universal and the venerable #429421 mold...tight groups, clean burning and recoil great. What more could you want?:) Admittedly, 10 gr of Unique holds it's own if you like smoke indoors, however. I use 19 gr of 2400 if I want a little more power and in my M29 it works good, easy extraction and groups I can live with.

[Little Big Oz]

Too many people have had success with 2400 for me not to experiment with it again. I'm going to try 18.5 and 19.0 gr loads next time out.

[Mal Paso]

18.0 gr 2400 - AVE 1220 fps/ES 48/SD 14
Lyman 49th gives 18.5 gr at 1087 fps and 20.6 gr at 1248 fps

I recognize that the Lyman data was obtained with a 4" bbl and universal receiver, and that the bullet I used has some very minor differences from the 429421, but I am surprised at the different results.


18.0 gr 2400 in my gun nearly matches the velocity that Lyman obtained with 20.6 gr.

Lyman also used bullets sized .429. IMO Lyman has No Clue and nobody will lend them one.

[TCFAN]

Maybe your chronograph is little faster than the one Lyman is using.Or you have it a little closer to the muzzle.

[Char-Gar]

Well you better get over that quick.

Ever hear the reloader's creed: Start low and work up.

Or if you change any component start low and work up.

Now you understand where those come from. Anyway, welcome to the asylum.

AMEN and AMEN!!!

[btroj]

Exactly. That is why every component manufacturer says this. It can save you a lot of grief.