Cast Boolits and the need for speed

[10x]

I was reading through the new lyman #4 cast bullet manual and realized that lyman is missing a whole bunch of us shooters.
I have a 22 hornet and I want a 50 grain boolit to tick along at 1050 fps, and in fact I wouldn't mind some loads going as low as 700 fps. Same with the 223, and 7.62x39.
It would be nice to have some loads that are low vel, low noise, and are for 50 yards or less.

That being said, it would also be nice to have 200 and 220 grain boolit loads for the 7.62x39 , 30-30 and 30/06 that start at 700 fps rather than the 1200 or higher velocities.

I shoot cast boolits because they are versatile and can be loaded down - and yes I go to the old manuals and try the loads there.

What prompted this little rant was the claim by lyman that the #4 manual had all of the loads...
It does not...

[Ohio Rusty]

I would have liked to have seen many more Trail Boss loads. TB is becoming a real popular powder for many rifle and pistol calibers, yet, there is hardly anything with published trail boss loads.

I also think they missed the boat when it came to loads for CCW weapons. They didn't include any data for the small concealable pistols (autos and revolvers) with short barrels. There are no snub nose loads listed into the 49th handbook or the Lyman pistoland revolver shooters book. Any high velocity loads are all 2400, H110, etc ... those slow powders are not the best powder choice when it comes to short barreled pistols. Concealed carry has taken the whole country by storm, and there is no load data being printed for CCW guns.

Ohio Rusty ><>

[9.3X62AL]

The terms "timeliness" and "old-line manufacturer" have become almost mutually exclusive in this hobby field. These gray-headed makers are spoiled by past practices of making what they wanted to make, and having the buying public accept it. The internet changed the landscape--we can discuss these matters publicly and in real-time, not get lectured at and bloviated upon by gunrag prophets. Smaller-scale mould makers cater to casters now--MM, NOE, BRP, and Mihec are just a few that come to mind.

Speed has its place. For sure! But there are times I don't care to get my shoulder or hands hammered by some thunder-slammer. The 45 Colt comes to mind in this context--in my Roogar BisHawk, I can stoke that cylinder to a level that can set off earthquakes in fault zones, if I so desire. Mostly, I don't--#454424 at 900-1000 FPS is a VERY useful and practical loading that I can fire all day without fatigue. Similar recipes in 41 Magnum, 44 Special, and 44 Magnum make up the bulk of my big-bore handgunning.

[Bullshop]

I have not yet seen this new Lyman manual so will question those that have. Have those same experts yet again set an alleged velocity upper limit?

There was recently a question posted by I think a fairly new member Goodsteel asking what that limit would be. He had said that he read in an old Lyman manual that that limit was about 1800 fps and using gas checks.

I doubt I would have to make any effort to most members here to prove that number needs some adjusting.

My own personal efforts most recently have set a new personal standard for good top end performance at in excess of 3400 fps. This not across the board as yet but with a single combination of boolit design, lube, caliber, and chambering.

Not trying to turn this into any advertisement for my success but instead just wondering if the new book has set in stone or even insinuated a new or revised top end or just stayed with the old misconception.

[MtGun44]

I have not tried for high speed, never shot a boolit over maybe 1800-1900 fps, so while I
know that some have succeeded at 2400 fps, I am impressed and amazed at 3400 fps!
Wow!

Can you tell us more about the gun, caliber, powder, boolit, lube and such? My bet is Speed Green is
in the grooves. ;-)

Bill

[Bullshop]

Rifle is a Stevens mod 200 re barreled to 221 Fireball with an ER Shaw barrel, 1/14" twist
heavy contour.
The boolit is from the new just released copy of Lyman # 225107 from NOE.
They were cast from range scrap and quenched from the mold. They were sized .225" with Gator checks installed and lubed with Lotak soft and weigh 39gn.
The load is 18gn of Win 680 with a CCI # 400 sr primer in RP cases. Average fps was 3441 with an ES of 20. Accuracy was sub 2 MOA more like 1.5. Not bench rest match quality but certainly good field accuracy.
I expect to employ it on these stinking thieving ravens that are steeling my chickens.
I plan to put a bait at about 200 yards from the house and shoot from my bedroom deck. I stepped out to a ruckus this am with a 1911 but was pretty helpless watching one of the black Blastards fly off with one of my chicks. Worthless black good for nuthin!!!

[altheating]

Stop talking politics here! This is the Cast Boolit forum!!!

[Bullshop]

Duh!!! I dont get it! I just wanted to find out about the new Lyman book. Did they
A - play the same tune
B - change the tune but are still off key
C - sing sweet ( true) music

[357 Voodoo]

bullshop in my #4 cb hand book its all B & C.

most loads are similar to the previous a few they are a little more generous with low and hi end loads

[10x]

The hornet loads are all hot - no subsonic.
No heavy loads 200 grain for 7.62 x 39 or 30-30.

[Bullshop]

altheating

Ha! Now I get it. I went back and re read my post and the last part did sound like it could fit in a current political discussion. Now dont I feel silly!
I know the joke kinda looses its meaning when you have to explain it, sorry.

[Rico1950]

10X,
7.62x39
Lee .312-185-1R @.314 w/ WW
183 grs.
CCI 200
20" bbl.
ACC 5744 14.0 grs. (1300-1400 fps)
ACC 5744 17.5 grs. MAX 1650-1750 fps.
COL 2.250"
Got it from Johan@Ramshot.com

[10x]

10X,
7.62x39
Lee .312-185-1R @.314 w/ WW
183 grs.
CCI 200
20" bbl.
ACC 5744 14.0 grs. (1300-1400 fps)
ACC 5744 17.5 grs. MAX 1650-1750 fps.
COL 2.250"
Got it from Johan@Ramshot.com

Thank you for that it will get used just as soon as I find ACC 5744 -
And a source of 7.62x39 brass. ( I live in Canada and no dealer here has brass).
They all have milsurp.

[Nrut]

Brass: http://www.budgetshootersupply.ca/catalog/New_Rifle_Brass_Cases_56.cfm

AA5744: Not on their list but I think I saw some there the other day:
http://www.ominecasourceforsports.com/index.php?option=com_productshowcase&Itemid=13&action=details&id=51

My current load:
311407 NOE (183grs) acww sized and checked in a LEE push thru die
Lube: dipped in LLA two grooves below top band so as not to gum up seating die..
Powder: 23grs of H4895
Primer: Win. SR
OAL: seated long with final seating completed upon chambering..
Vel: ???
Grouping: not that great .430 vertical X 2.45 horizontal 5 shot at 100m
I believe I can sort the horizontal stringing out with more work..
I use this load for snap shooting practice and it is fine for that..
Zero to little recoil but loud in my CZ Carbine..

I have a bunch more data from articles in the older Cast Bullet Journals (CBJ) most authored by CE (Ed) Harris..
Also some heavy boolit loads from the match section..
These are not sub 1000 fps loads that you are looking for however..
Check out the Cast Bullet Assoc. site..
The CBJ 101-4 shows small game loads in the SKS tumble lubed, 160gr LEE CEH boolit. no gas check, using on of the following loads:
5 grs. Bulleye
6 grs. W231
7 grs. Unique
This load doesn't cycle the SKS

Post 7 on this thread is a good read..
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=50837

[NHlever]

A load that I like in the .22 Hornet, and .223 is 3 - 3.5 grains of Unique behind a 50-55 grain boolit for about .22 LR velocities, but with a much heavier boolit.

[Blammer]

I second the unique load in the 22hornet for 22LR or 22Mag velocity's.

I like around 5 gr or so if I remember correctly for a 50gr bullet. (yea only jacketed in that for reduced loads so far but lead should work well too. :D )

[mroliver77]

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/addata.htm

Some good stuff here. Many powders and neat charts. Read his article on the why and how of it.
Jay