Looking for powder for a 30-30 load

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

i just ordered up a C309-170-F and a push thru sizer .311

i am loading for a 1970 marlin 336 20 inch barrel micro groove

i am not looking to find some new ultra fast velocity if i could get a 18-1900 round for hunting , and a light round for long brass life and not have to use gas checks that would be great

if i could do that with one powder that would burn well and clean at a factory-ish equivalent or a light load that would be even better

some of the powders in the consideration are , looking at the book what has load data for 170 gr lead and is locally available
i recognize these as locally available on my dealers shelf less than a mile away.

VARGET
BL-C(2)
H4895
H335
ACCURATE 2520
IMR3031

what other powders should i look at?

now for the weed out process which don't reduce well , and only work at the upper end of the curve
can you help me with the pros and cons of some of these powders loaded in 30-30

[felix]

Any of the above. Select any of the ball powders as easiest to load; select the cheapest one; select the most stable one in varied ambients. Your pick. ... felix

[izzyjoe]

4895 and varget are good choises. i use imr 4895 and the lee 170, and i'm happy with it. sounds like your on the right track.

[405]

I have a few 30-30s and have piddled with several bullets/loads for them over the years. My go-to bullet for the 30-30 lever is the 311041 but do shoot some 150 grainers. The 311041 is a gas checked bullet so you may want to ignore the rest of this. With the 311041 Rel # 7 and 4198 have both been pretty good powders loaded to the lower ends of the scale with MVs in the 1600-1700 fps range. Then a couple of years ago I tried 5744.... just to do something different. I've shot a ton of 5744 in various larger straight walled stuff like 45-70s, etc. but not so much in the mild bottle necks. To my surprise--- mild loads of 5744 with dacron filler have proven to be excellent for both the 150 gr and 173 gr gas checked bullets in the 30-30. Likewise, similar, fairly light 5744/dacron loads have given the most accurate results in my 7x57 Chilean 95. So my favorite 30-30 powders for the 30-30 cast loads are: 5744, 4198 and Rel # 7. Some of the powders you listed will work also.

[jimkim]

My 30-30's('71 336 and '91 336cs) are not finicky. Anything with a burn rate starting with 2400/4227 and ending with W-760/IMR-4350 will do what you want. I'm with Felix, pick out one of the ball powders and run with it.

This might help. http://www.chuckhawks.com/recommended_rifle_powders.htm

Later on, you might try out some W-760 or one of the 4350's. These will pretty much fill your case and give you your desired velocity.

[btroj]

Like Felix said, any of the ones you listed will work well. Go buy one and start shooting.

[C A Plater]

I've used all of your listed powders in .30-30 except for AA2520 and that's just because I haven't cracked the seal on the 8 pound jugs I have. They have all done very well. One other consider is H322 which I use for my favorite cast hunting load (2000fps with 150 grain gas check) and burn very clean.

[Larry Gibson]

28 gr H4895, classic 30-30 load with 170 - 180 gr cast.

Larry Gibson

[quilbilly]

My 30-30 absolutely loves 5744 in any load from 1100 fps to 2000 fps using the Lee 160 gr boolit. It can hit bottle caps with regularity at 100 yds. My current load of about 15 gr is for a 1500 fps velocity and gives 19" of penetration in soaked phone books

[hydraulic]

I second the recommendation by Larry Gibson.

[timkelley]

+2 for Larry Gibson.

[pls1911]

25-26 grains reloader 7, 160-175 grain bullet designs will get you there.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I was first thinking BL-C(2) it's ball i have lots of reduced data for it in the Lee book

but 2520 looks very interesting with very low pressures and looks to be a favorite for auto loading 30-06 rifles

then there is Varget who wouldn't like it's tiny little variation in burn between 125 and 0 degrees in temperature , not a ball type but short grain extruded for better metering but maybe not ball metering.

4895 no one seems to be able to say a bad word about it and i have plenty of data for it for reduced loads

and now you have to go and tell me how great 5744 is , but i would like to avoid dacron filler for now so maybe not 5744

i was looking for answers i narrowed it down a little to varget , bl-c(2) and 4895 based on the reduced data i have i think price may decide now

i will have to go shopping and see what the prices are , but after seeing Larry's write up on lever revolution , he is certainly helping 4895 edge out the others

[jimkim]

A load pushing a 170gr boolit 1800-1900fps is usually in the starting load data. You can do it with almost any rifle powder.

[runfiverun]

aa-2230 is worth looking at also.
i have just plain settled on 24.5 grs of it as kinda my "the load"
i use it with j-words in the ar's and under 150 and 170 boolits in the 30-30's and will be trying it shortly in the 0-6 with the 311041.
it just might replace my 2400,and H/I- 4895 loads in other applications.
it don't like magnum primers on hot days [had to try it on a top end load of 27.5 grs in the 30-30 on a hot 85*+ day just to see] but it will ignite with pistol primers on cold ones 0* easily.
just a titch slower than pistol and titch fast for rifle but goes all the way from some revolver 25-20,357 maximum loads, up through 30-06 fairly easily.

[mroliver77]

Hmm, maybe I am different but I really like 3031 for medium size cases. Heck even in the Hornet! It burns very well and seems to ignore small variations in charge weights or case capacities. Some of the most accurate loads I have ever shot were with 3031. Seems as though it was made for the 30-30! ;)

As has been said, it is also hard to beat a case full of ball powder.
J

[redneckdan]

VARGET- 29.0 gr

BL-C(2)- 29.5 gr

H4895- 27.0gr

H335- 27.0gr

ACCURATE 2520- 28.5gr

IMR3031- 27.5gr

These are all loads that have worked up in a 336 24" that are right around 1900FPS with that exact LEE bullet.

[JDL]

You have received good advice and the .30-30 is one of the easiest to work with. My favorite load is the RCBS 30-180 FN and 35 grains of H-414. Muzzle velocity runs from 1953 fps in 20" barrels to 1970 fps in a 24" barrel.

JDL

[John Boy]

18gr of 5744 ... good to 200yds

[geargnasher]

If you go over 1600 fps with anything softer than 15 bhn, you will need a gas check or paper patch to maintain accuracy. That being said, 1500 fps will shoot clean through bambi from end to end provided you do your part.

Personally, I favor Reloader 7 and the 311041, but in my Marlin it shoots the Lee 170 almost exactly the same. It is very difficult to argue with "a casefull of ball powder" for this cartridge, though. 748 is a favorite of mine with less than 180-grainers, but it IS temperature sensitive.

Gear

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

If you go over 1600 fps with anything softer than 15 bhn, you will need a gas check or paper patch to maintain accuracy. That being said, 1500 fps will shoot clean through bambi from end to end provided you do your part.

Personally, I favor Reloader 7 and the 311041, but in my Marlin it shoots the Lee 170 almost exactly the same. It is very difficult to argue with "a casefull of ball powder" for this cartridge, though. 748 is a favorite of mine with less than 180-grainers, but it IS temperature sensitive.

Gear

does reloader 7 reduce well ?

i went price shopping last night , 4895 was 27 something a pound , bl-c(2) and varget were pennies apart at 24 and change basicaly everything on thier shelf was between 23 and 28 dollars a pound so not much differnce

i am more interested in the 1500 fps type loads for fun shooting than hunting
this 30-30 is not my primary hunting gun

[JDL]

does reloader 7 reduce well ?

i went price shopping last night , 4895 was 27 something a pound , bl-c(2) and varget were pennies apart at 24 and change basicaly everything on thier shelf was between 23 and 28 dollars a pound so not much differnce

i am more interested in the 1500 fps type loads for fun shooting than hunting
this 30-30 is not my primary hunting gun

I'm a great fan of Unique under these circumstances.

[WyrTwister]

i just ordered up a C309-170-F and a push thru sizer .311

i am loading for a 1970 marlin 336 20 inch barrel micro groove

i am not looking to find some new ultra fast velocity if i could get a 18-1900 round for hunting , and a light round for long brass life and not have to use gas checks that would be great

if i could do that with one powder that would burn well and clean at a factory-ish equivalent or a light load that would be even better

some of the powders in the consideration are , looking at the book what has load data for 170 gr lead and is locally available
i recognize these as locally available on my dealers shelf less than a mile away.

VARGET
BL-C(2)
H4895
H335
ACCURATE 2520
IMR3031

what other powders should i look at?

now for the weed out process which don't reduce well , and only work at the upper end of the curve
can you help me with the pros and cons of some of these powders loaded in 30-30

May or may not be the best , but 4895 works pretty well in a lot of different .30 calibers .

I shoot government surplus 4895 .

God bless
Wyr

[btroj]

does reloader 7 reduce well ?

i went price shopping last night , 4895 was 27 something a pound , bl-c(2) and varget were pennies apart at 24 and change basicaly everything on thier shelf was between 23 and 28 dollars a pound so not much differnce

i am more interested in the 1500 fps type loads for fun shooting than hunting
this 30-30 is not my primary hunting gun

Fir 1500 fps loads look no further than 2400. Works well up to about 1700 or maybe 1800. Cheap, accurate, easy to load.
For 2000 fps or more there is no wrong answer amongst the powders you listed.
And yes, Re7 loads down pretty well.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

i have to admit case fill is part of what apeals to me with 4895 , bl-c(2) and varget

[lylejb]

am more interested in the 1500 fps type loads for fun shooting

Unique does this well. I use 9.5 gr, and a pound goes a long way.

[Fugowii]

aa-2230 is worth looking at also.
i have just plain settled on 24.5 grs of it as kinda my "the load"
i use it with j-words in the ar's and under 150 and 170 boolits in the 30-30's and will be trying it shortly in the 0-6 with the 311041.
it just might replace my 2400,and H/I- 4895 loads in other applications.
it don't like magnum primers on hot days [had to try it on a top end load of 27.5 grs in the 30-30 on a hot 85*+ day just to see] but it will ignite with pistol primers on cold ones 0* easily.
just a titch slower than pistol and titch fast for rifle but goes all the way from some revolver 25-20,357 maximum loads, up through 30-06 fairly easily.

From the Ballistician @ Western Powders Inc. Miles City. Montana.

Unfortunately a spherical powder like A-2230® does not do well under low loading density conditions/reduced loads.

I do not know why the previous company owner published those loads. (I referenced the Accurate #2 manual).

The round will be extremely sensitive to ignition i.e. the position of the powder.

We currently only support using A-5744® for such applications

We suggest the following:

Caliber: .30-06 Springfield.
Barrel length: 24”
Powder: Accurate – 5744®.
Bullet weight: 175 grains.
Low load: 25.5 grains (1800 – 1900 Ft/p/sec)
Midrange load: 32.3 grains (2000 – 2100 Ft/p/sec)

[rintinglen]

For your 1500-1800 fps loads, 15-18 grains of 2400. One of my favorites is the 311-466 and 17.5 grains of 2400. In my rifle, it goes right around 1800 fps and shoots as well as factory Silvertips. My other favorites have all been mentioned but, IMR 3031, 4895 and 4064 have all worked ok for me, as has Win 748. 748 is excellent for factory duplication loads.

[cbrick]

Your looking for reduced loads 1800-1900 fps you said.

And no mention in this thread of SR4759.

This powder with 160-185 Gr bullets of air cooled WW shoots groups that amaze me in my 1960's Winchester. 1900 fps or little over depending on bullet, mild recoil and the barrel doesn't seem to heat up nearly as quickly as some other powders. A very mild load to start out with is 18.0 gr and a standard rifle primer.

Rick

[Gunnut 45/454]

Larry
Agreed 28 gr H4895 is my load with the LEE 170gr for both my Marlin 336 and Win 94 in 30-30
I get 1989 fps out of both with that laod and get 1.5-2" at 100 yards! It my hunting load! :)

[helice]

Must agree with pls1911 on the ReL-7.
But if you want 1500'/s I agree with btroj on 2400. 10 gr. makes a fun plinker and gives 700 rounds per pound. Hard to beat it for accuracy too.

[Smoke-um if you got-um]

I also have a 1970 336 20" micro-groove. 30-31 grains of BLC-2 and a similar bullet of that design has proven to be a very reliable performer in mine, both target and hunting.

Mike

[Philngruvy]

4895 has been mentioned alot on this thread. What is the difference between H-4895 and IMR-4895?

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

4895 has been mentioned alot on this thread. What is the difference between H-4895 and IMR-4895?

my book understanding is just a tiny difference in burn

almost identical but slightly different , but close enough that a starting charge of either is about the same but top ends vary slightly.

thats the book , in practice i don't know

[izzyjoe]

if you look at the burn rate chart, imr 4895 is lower on the scale than h4895. so it's just a touch hotter.

[NHlever]

I was first thinking BL-C(2) it's ball i have lots of reduced data for it in the Lee book

but 2520 looks very interesting with very low pressures and looks to be a favorite for auto loading 30-06 rifles

then there is Varget who wouldn't like it's tiny little variation in burn between 125 and 0 degrees in temperature , not a ball type but short grain extruded for better metering but maybe not ball metering.

4895 no one seems to be able to say a bad word about it and i have plenty of data for it for reduced loads

and now you have to go and tell me how great 5744 is , but i would like to avoid dacron filler for now so maybe not 5744

i was looking for answers i narrowed it down a little to varget , bl-c(2) and 4895 based on the reduced data i have i think price may decide now

i will have to go shopping and see what the prices are , but after seeing Larry's write up on lever revolution , he is certainly helping 4895 edge out the others

IMR-4227 is pretty close to AA-5744 in burn rate, and pressures generated for cast boolits. I will be trying some in my 30-30 rifles.

[Char-Gar]

I don't know why you guys ask questions like this. There is no answer, just opinions and one opinion is about as good as the other.

Me? I go with 3031 for no particular reason except I have used it for many many years and find it useful in a number of applications.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I don't know why you guys ask questions like this. There is no answer, just opinions and one opinion is about as good as the other.

Me? I go with 3031 for no particular reason except I have used it for many many years and find it useful in a number of applications.

i hope that many people saying 1 particular powder at approximately the same charge works well for them , is better than one random opinion hopefully it is telling me that that powder burns in a number of different guns with different length barrels even different boolits of approximately the same weight as i am looking at, and it gives me a good starting point to find what my gun will like.

it is a weed out question , if i post 5 powders that should all work and some one tells me something that the manufacture won't like that they found it particularly position sensitive or that it burns very poorly below XXXX fps the i can weed that one out without a month of trials , and money spent

i am on a tight budget for reloading supplies, and range time , time in general, i would love to be able to try lots of powders , and someday i will have but for now if i can save buying a pound of something not well suited , i have saved many hours of frustration and the money of buying another pound of something else.

if anything how ever my only frustration is that i must have done my research well enough before asking because everything i asked about got the sure that will work.

i did however get many responses that 4895 was what they were using with success , it was high on my list of possibilities to start with.

[skeet1]

I have been shooting Unique in my .30-30 Marlin and it works very well I guess that is why they call it Unique.

Ken

[Char-Gar]

Green Country Pete... Having lived on a low gun budget all of my life, I can understand your desire not to play with many powders.

We are talking cast bullet here right! There are many great cast bullet powders for the 30-30. To keep my powder inventory way down, I use 2400 for about all cast bullet shooting in rifles. It works great, doesn't seem to be position sensitive, requires no filler, gives good accuracy and is works well in about every cartridge case from the 30-30 to the 30-06 and everything in between.

In the 30-30 charges between 14 and 17 grains (depending on your bullet and desired velocity), will make you a happy and frugal man. Velocities up to 1.8K fps, with accuracy are each with this powder and that velocity will kill any deer in North America.

If you goal is to run 30-30 cast bullets at or near factory ammo speeds (2.2 to 2.4 K fps), I stick my my 3031 preference. This powder will also be good for jacketed bullets as well.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Green Country Pete... Having lived on a low gun budget all of my life, I can understand your desire not to play with many powders.

We are talking cast bullet here right! There are many great cast bullet powders for the 30-30. To keep my powder inventory way down, I use 2400 for about all cast bullet shooting in rifles. It works great, doesn't seem to be position sensitive, requires no filler, gives good accuracy and is works well in about every cartridge case from the 30-30 to the 30-06 and everything in between.

In the 30-30 charges between 14 and 17 grains (depending on your bullet and desired velocity), will make you a happy and frugal man. Velocities up to 1.8K fps, with accuracy are each with this powder and that velocity will kill any deer in North America.

If you goal is to run 30-30 cast bullets at or near factory ammo speeds (2.2 to 2.4 K fps), I stick my my 3031 preference. This powder will also be good for jacketed bullets as well.

Yes cast , i have some wheel weight ingots and add a bit of tin , i have a c309-170f lee 2 cavity mold hoping it drops a little big , i bought a .311 lee push thru sizer
and i got a bottom pour pot
i should get a chance soon to cast up a bunch and see how they are

[Char-Gar]

Green Country Pete.. My counsel to you is to try the bullet whatever the cast diameter may be. On this board we deal with all kinds of details, ideal situations and how we would want things to happen. However, rifles often have a mind of their own and often shoot very well in spite of all our theories and compound wisdom.

Best of luck to you....

[Bob Busetti]

BlC-2 32.00 gr. Works great in my 1908 carbine & 1976 carbine.
Bob

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Friday i cast up 63 keepers and a few that went back in the pot

the boolits are dropping from the mold at .310 i loaded them as cast no sizing

made 2 dummy rounds they chamber fine

lubed with liquid alox 2 coats

settled on h4895 today for powder went to the store bought it

measured out 15 gr , put a bullet over it and function fired into my test backstop yup it goes off , didn't see any leading after 1 but time will tell

put an additional smear of 50-50 alox bees wax on 10 boolits and loaded them up to go to the range , have to see how the weather is Monday after work maybe i can hit the range.

[MikeS]

If you're interested in reduced loads, have you considered Trail Boss? It's nice because even with a reduced load it will fill the case nicely.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I considered it , i am having good luck so far with H4895

pros - of trail boss - great case fill for 1000-1200 fps loads

almost a pro - it sells for 14.95 a can - until you realize it is a 8oz can

con - it only does reduced loads


so far i have loaded 15g or h4895 and put 5 of 7 rounds touching at 25 the other 2 weren't far off and i figure were me these were c309-170rf tumble lubed with a finger coating of 50/50 nra alox bees wax

not much to complain about for a plinker load


i have also shot some 18gr with grits filler 3 of 5 touching at 25 yards

i am going to try 50 yards and other loads with more powder to see where my limit is for speed without a gas check


major pro of H4895 for me is 1 powder that can serve my needs in 30-30 form plinker to full power hunting loads and be used for 30-06 and other 30cals

i am on a tight budget.

[kbstenberg]

Charger and GMP can I commend both of you for a civil friendly disc. concerning questioning on another persons reasons for asking questions. There were no toes stepped on or offenses made or taken. I find it refreshing.
Kevin

[Canuck Bob]

What about the new H-LVR powder?

[lcclower]

Since I load a lot of .223 I have Varget in quantity. But I like H4895 way better.

I worked up to a load of 33 grains of H4895, regular LR primer, and a 160 Gr. RCBS cast bullet sized .302 in a Buckshot custom push through sizer and wrapped 2x vellumm to .311 in my old 94, and shot freakin' cloverleafs at 50.

Eager to go see what it will do out there at 150 or 200, the outer limits, with a younger set of eyes.

110 Lee round nose, lube and never mind the gas check, 10 gr. Unique, works wonders on cans, turtles and small assorted fruit.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

i had chosen H4895 i like it i get very nice results with 18-19gr under the 170 gr boolit with no check

i need to get some checks and try a hotter load later.

above 20-21 accuracy falls apart on the unchecked boolits for this gun

[white eagle]

I have used 4 of the 6 powders you have listed
Rite at the moment I am in the Varget stage
shoot have fun be safe ...