Tungsten , float or sink in lead ?

[Johnch]

Tonight I smelted a batch of WW

As I was cleaning up
I was dumping the steel and Zink WW's into the proper buckets for recycling

When I realized , I had tossed the few of Tungsten/ plastic WW's that I had found into the smelt pot [smilie=1: [smilie=1:

They look liked a gray plastic WW , with a fine dark gray welder slag incased in the plastic

From Memory Tungsten is hard
So I want to be sure it doesn't end up in a boolit
As I am afraid it might scratch the barrel ???


If Tungsten floats , I skimmed it off
If it sinks , it's in the last ingot's I cast as I dumped the pot
And I will re melt these ingots and ladle off the lead

Anyone know ?

John

[btroj]

Since Wolfram has a density significantly higher than PB it would sink like a rock. It has a melting point high enough to not be an issue, it would be like really heavy sand in the melt.

[Johnch]

Since Wolfram has a density significantly higher than PB it would sink like a rock. It has a melting point high enough to not be an issue, it would be like really heavy sand in the melt.


Thanks
That confirmes what I found after a internet search

Not what I wanted to here though :cry: :cry:

Guess I will re melt those last 6 ingots in the AM

John

[Harter66]

I believe he said tungstun and plastic .

[btroj]

Yes he did, tungsten and wolfram are the same thing. This is why the atomic symbol for tungsten is W.

[dragonrider]

Perhaps I don't understand the Periodic table but W has and atomic weight of 74 while PB has an atomic weight of 82. So which one is heavier???

[2wheelDuke]

Since Wolfram has a density significantly higher than PB it would sink like a rock. It has a melting point high enough to not be an issue, it would be like really heavy sand in the melt.

It's dense, but not denser than lead. I'm really not sure how you figure that.


Perhaps I don't understand the Periodic table but W has and atomic weight of 74 while PB has an atomic weight of 82. So which one is heavier???

The higher number, the denser/heavier. Up at the very top, you see hydrogen, the lightest.

Notice that uranium has an atomic number even higher than lead. That's why the military uses depleted uranium rounds for armor-piercing anti-tank rounds.

I'm not a chemist, but this is a question you'd get in the first day of high school chemistry class, and I did get an A in high school chem all those years ago.

[Jim]

I'm not sure if THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgf3Cvq47wU) will help, but it might. If tungsten sinks in Mercury, but lead does not, does that mean that Tungsten is heavier than lead? Seems like it is.

[dragonrider]

Then according to the periodic table tungsten is lighter than lead, yes?? Hence it should float in lead.

[selmerfan]

Tungsten is denser than lead, as indicated by it's specific gravity. Here is a chart of specific gravity figures for many of our more common metals. http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_metals.htm

[selmerfan]

Hmm, someone with more chemistry/metallurgical knowledge than this guy needs to weigh in here. (yes, bad pun intended) The specific gravity of tungsten is higher than lead, but tungsten's atomic number and atomic mass are lower than lead. But I also know that tungsten is the main component in Hevi-shot non-toxic loads for waterfowl, which fire shot which is denser than lead.

[Matt_G]

It's dense, but not denser than lead. I'm really not sure how you figure that.

The density of Lead is 11.34 grams per cubic centimeter and the density of Tungsten is 19.25 grams per cubic centimeter. That means that Tungsten will sink in Lead.

[dragonrider]

See I told you I didn't understand it, now I am more confused than ever, it seems, to me at least, tht we now have two tables that contradict each other. I have been equating weight with density, this may not be correct.

[Defcon-One]

btroj is dead on, the Tungsten would sink in molten Lead like a rock (in water) and it probably can not be melted in your home pot!

This says it all:

"Tungsten is remarkable for its robustness, especially the fact that it has the highest melting point of all the non-alloyed metals and the second highest of all the elements after carbon. Also remarkable is its high density of 19.3 times that of water, comparable to that of uranium and gold, and much higher (about 1.7 times) than that of lead."

Density of lead: 11.34 grams per cubic centimeter

Density of Tungsten: 19.25 grams per cubic centimeter

[Johnch]

This AM I resmelted the last 6 ingots
After carefully removing all the lead I could with a ladle

I had about a cup of lead in the bottom of the pot
As it started to cool
I tipped the pot to the slightly to the side and most of the lead ran

But I ended up with a little lead , with maybe a thimble full of the Tumgsten powder

The whole cup of remaining lead will see use only for sinkers

John

[2wheelDuke]

Looks like atomic number isn't the only determining factor. On that table, tungsten having a higher specific gravity is the only exception I see right now, but maybe I need more sleep.

[btroj]

[smilie=b:Atomic number tells you the number of protons in the nucleus. Has nothing at all to do with density.
Some of you obviously slept thru chemistry class.

[bumpo628]

How did you know that little piece inside the plastic was tungsten and not lead? I cut several of those pieces out of the plastic weights and they cut and bent like soft lead.

About the density difference:
The atomic numbers 74 (W) and 89 (Pb) and atomic weights 184 (W) vs. 207 (Pb) make you think tungsten would float. However the tungsten's density is higher than lead at 19.25 vs. 11.34 gm/cm3.

The answer must be the difference between their atom size and crystalline structure.
Tungsten has an atomic radius of 135 pm (picometers). Lead has a radius of about 180 pm.
So, while the tungsten atom may be lighter than lead - you can pack more of them into a box.

[Johnch]

How did you know that little piece inside the plastic was tungsten and not lead? I cut several of those pieces out of the plastic weights and they cut and bent like soft lead.

.

The guy that gives me these WW's showed he one and told me what they were
[smilie=1: I am suposed to give them back to him [smilie=1:

As he gives me the WW's for free , a small price for free WW's these days

I sort them out and give them back to him , most there has been in a 5 Gallon bucket full was 10 or so

John

[bumpo628]

The guy that gives me these WW's showed he one and told me what they were
[smilie=1: I am suposed to give them back to him [smilie=1:

As he gives me the WW's for free , a small price for free WW's these days

I sort them out and give them back to him , most there has been in a 5 Gallon bucket full was 10 or so

John

Hmmm. I wonder how much he gets for them.

Dang, I just realized I'm going to have to fish those little bits out of my five buckets of unsmelted stickies. :(

[Johnch]

Hmmm. I wonder how much he gets for them.

Dang, I just realized I'm going to have to fish those little bits out of my five buckets of unsmelted stickies. :(

http://www.infomine.com/commodities/tungsten.asp
$52 per KG is the current spot price
Not sure what scrap runs

John