Saddam is Dead!

[C1PNR]

At least according to the media. Executed at 10:PM Eastern time.

I guess we'll see what the reaction is over the next several days.

[LIMPINGJ]

Short or Long Drop?

[Rick Hodges]

It don't matter just so long as its the last drop!

[SharpsShooter]

The gent that tied the noose had a sense of humor...he tied with 7 rounds instead of the traditional 13. No matter...still very workable. His body should be thrown into the streets for the dogs.


SS

[wills]

Short or Long Drop?

Air drop or water drop?

[wills]

I guess we'll see what the reaction is over the next several days.

I predict he will still be dead.

[Scrounger]

The gent that tied the noose had a sense of humor...he tied with 7 rounds instead of the traditional 13. No matter...still very workable. His body should be thrown into the streets for the dogs.


SS


No. Wrapped iun a pig skin and buried in concrete.

[waksupi]

Long or short drop is important. If the fall is too short, the person hangs there, and eventually strangles. Too much drop, and the head pulls off. What they look for in a nice clean hanging, is to break the neck on the fall. I imagine if you are watching the back end of your horse running away from you, it may be strangulation.
I believe it was because of these problems that Montana dropped hanging for a death penalty. They couldn't find an experienced hangman. I don't know if they advertised in the local shopper to try and fill the position, or not. Probably not, as most of the fun jobs seem to go to out of state "experts".
And, yes indeed, there was a manual, put together by the Engish many years ago, for the guidance of the hangman,with all pertinent formulas, taking into account drop, body weight, maybe hair color. The British were very thorough in such things, doncha know?
Quite frankly, considering the end results any way you go about it, the hangee won't care. For long, anyway.
Judge Parker, where are you, when we need you?

[Scrounger]

For some reason this disturbs me. In a way I can't explain, it seems sort of mean and pointless. I can kinda see where the anti-death penalty people are coming from. Not that I'm against the death penalty, far from it. It just needs to be administered far more often and much more quickly. I just have a problem with the way it is administered, years after the act it is to be punishment for. I believe that criminals, terrorists (I think people like Hussein, Hitler and their ilk, fall under the classification of terrorists), and others who need killing should be shot down the instant of apprehension like a mad dog or a snake. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by having a show trial. As we have seen in Israel and other countries, it all too often leads to reprisals and more innocent deaths. No prisoners solves that problem. There is the problem of accused where there really is some question of their guilt. In these cases, a speedy trial, an automatic appeal one week later, and execution the next morning after the appeal ruling. Next...

[omgb]

I'm afraid we just made a martyr out of him. I would rather he had been squirreled away in some dark and silent hell hole for eternity. FWIW, I am pro-death penalty.


As to the number of turns of the rope, only the west thinks that 13 turns are needed. In fact, the English stopped using that knot altogether in mid 20th century. They used a leather cover rope and a metal ring. Modern US manuals call for a delrin keeper. How do I know these things? Insomnia and a T1 connection.:drinks:

[MGySgt]

I'm afraid we just made a martyr out of him. I would rather he had been squirreled away in some dark and silent hell hole for eternity. :drinks:

This is one of those times when Both ways - Death or Life in Prison - both have their detrackors.

There where a lot of Shunni's that were afraid he would come back into power some way some day. He was imprisoned once before and he came back stronger in the Bathh party.

Death - Martyr.

Which would be worse? - I don't know but Scrounger has the best idea:

Wrapped in a pig skin and buried in concrete. Of Course the burial would have to be shown live all over the world!

Never happen - too may Bleed Hart Liberals - Cruel and inhumain!

Just my humble opinion!

Drew

[9.3X62AL]

On balance, I think the Iraqi government should be congratulated for their rather straightforward handling of this matter. Compared to California's situation with the death penalty, 3 years from capture to execution is light speed.

Art, I gotta agree with ya on cases like Saddam's, or a Hitler or a Pol Pot. The trial is a make-work process to attempt appeasement of the weak-sistered trendy leftists, and is uniformly unsuccessful--in appeasement, at least. In terms of furthering justice, such executions are a complete success. As a society, we need to ignore the bleatings of these abomination apologists, and do what is right and just. Those who haven't the stomach for such things should just shut the hell up, as far as I'm concerned. Those who argue for the lives of monsters under these circumstances are figuratively pissing on the graves of their victims.

This is not an esoteric or academic argument for me. I have direct responsibility for the placement of one man on California's Death Row, and shared responsibility for several others. I have no problem with that--at all. I wish the Green Room was on three shifts. Logically speaking, the death penalty is obscenely expensive--you can house a prisoner for 22,000 years for the same cost as strapping him or her into the execution suite. The obscenity is that a cottage industry has built itself around the death penalty issue and frustrating society's good faith attempts at seeking justice. While Iraq's democratic traditions are in their infancy, it would seem that the country's willingness to do the right thing regardless of potential outcome or controversy is well-established.

[NVcurmudgeon]

My WAG is that Saddam won't be much of an inspirational martyr. He was much more of a secular corrupt dictator, as opposed to the religious fanatics who are much more in style as symbols in the Moslem world. OTOH, Saddam alive was potentially capable of great mischief. The new Iraqi government seems to have been courageous and decisive in resolving this case quickly. Trial, one appeal, string 'em up in thirty days, we could learn from them!

[Nrut]

My WAG is that Saddam won't be much of an inspirational martyr. He was much more of a secular corrupt dictator, as opposed to the religious fanatics who are much more in style as symbols in the Moslem world. OTOH, Saddam alive was potentially capable of great mischief. The new Iraqi government seems to have been courageous and decisive in resolving this case quickly. Trial, one appeal, string 'em up in thirty days, we could learn from them!

NVC...First time I heard it put that way...... I think you nailed it!....:)

[redneckdan]

IHow do I know these things? Insomnia and a T1 connection.:drinks:

story of my life:roll:

[piwo]

I've read the "should be shot at the time of discovery" wish floated out there on several different forums and among friends as well. Problem with that is that while he had armed himself with a hand gun and a grenade while in his hole, he didn’t resist arrest with arms. Some folks need killing, and that's fact: but to ask (or expect) and 18 to essentially execute someone at first site is asking or expecting a bit, I think.

He's gone now.. The world is rid of another despot. :drinks:

[Scrounger]

My WAG is that Saddam won't be much of an inspirational martyr. He was much more of a secular corrupt dictator, as opposed to the religious fanatics who are much more in style as symbols in the Moslem world. OTOH, Saddam alive was potentially capable of great mischief. The new Iraqi government seems to have been courageous and decisive in resolving this case quickly. Trial, one appeal, string 'em up in thirty days, we could learn from them!

We're not capable of learning. How many here think if the North Vietnames had been good little boys and stayed home in 1972 (?), South Viet Nam with be a well run democracy today with lots of smiling faces? Remember that a lot of those fighting against us were SOUTH Vietnames. And an even bigger problem were the high ranking army officers and government officials who were stealing everything they could get their hands on while kissing Westmoreland's butt and making all the right promises to run a fair and honest country for the benefit of all its citizens. There was never a chance in you know where that problem would work out. And so too Iraq. The very piss ants who are telling us what we want to hear now will start fighting for the right to take Saddam's chair the very instant the voters of this country (who don't really seem to care too much) force the rulers of this country to withdraw. The only way we or any other country should get involved in countries like Iraq and Vietnam is if we intend to permanently occupy and rule that country as a permanent possession. We fully occupy it, we kill all opposition, and they become part of us. I can't wait until we send troops into Mexico to keep the peace, put down an insurrection or whatever. It will happen someday.

[fatnhappy]

Shamelessly robbed from another site.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/Marcster2005/Smileypad/Famous/ACCSaddamHideout.gif http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/Marcster2005/Smileypad/Famous/ACCSaddamCapturedHL.gifhttp://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/Marcster2005/Smileypad/Famous/ACCSaddamItsRealyHim.gifhttp://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/Marcster2005/Smileypad/Famous/ACCSaddamInJailHL.gifhttp://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/Marcster2005/Smileypad/Rude/thlaughsaddam.gif

[Bret4207]

I have extemely strong feelings about the whole "War on Terror" thing. Picking up pieces of kids and office worker s off the streets of NYC will do that to you. While I stop well short of the "turn Iraq/Iran/Syria/Pakistan into chunks of glass" mentality, I'm still very, very pro-war. Mind you, like Scrounger, (glad you're back BTW), I have no rose colored glasses regarding our politicians or mans basic ability to screw up anything he puts his hand to. And since I have a 17 yoa son who's considering the Marine Corps it's quite real to me. But, and my wife agrees, if faced with the choice of fighting "over there" or here- I say take it to them. The problem seems to be the Iraqi people and the tribal/religious factions that made up Persia before the Brits (I think) carved it up in, what?, the 1920's? They are still fighting wars and terretorial battles that started before Columbus sailed the ocean blue, some from the times of The Crusades.

I don't think anyone had any idea this would happen. I'm pretty sure all involved figured "We'll remove the Taliband/Dictator and offer the people freedom and democracy! They'll glom onto that like kids on ice cream!!!" Who woulda thunk the present problems would happen.


So Hussein is gone. Good. It worked for them. But although I'm a strong proponant of the death penalty, common sense tells me to give up on it under the current politcal/social rules. We can go for life with no parole, and although they'll appeal and appeal at least we don't have the big issue to flog the anti's into a lather.

Now, not to get too politcal, I'm also more or less pro-life. But- I'm strongly in favor of RETRO ACTIVE ABORTION!!! I figure if by the time you're say 25-27 yoa you haven't proved to be contributing to society in a positive fashion of some sort, then we'd go back in time and hand your Dad a condom. End of problem. I'm still working out the little details...

[Urny]

Long drop. I watched the leaked cell phone video that can be accessed through www.militaryphotos.net of the hanging. Fell quite a ways and appeared dead dead by the time the guy with the cell phone could get under the gallows platform. He conducted himself at the end a lot better than I probably would have.

Just went back to the site to get the exact url and found that site administrators have pulled the video. Proper thing to do given their stated policies. Still, it was interesting.

[Hunter]

as long as he is room temperature

[Rottweiler]

Good Riddance

[fstreed]

Short or Long Drop?
Long drop! Short rope!

[Blackwater]

The liberals, democrats and media have turned the Iraq issue into a question of whether it's "winnable" in a certain short period of time. Was it Einstein who said that the answers are easy, that it's finding the right QUESTION is the hard part? Well, I for one think the entire question posed by the media and cussed and discussed ad infinitum, is the problem. It totally isolates the Iraq war issue from all other related matters, such as Kim Jung Il in N. Korea, Iran's pursuit/possession of nuclear weapons, and the many who hate the USA, as well as the simple fact that Islamic radicals have been "hitting" (read that KILLing) us for over 30 years now. Remember the Iranian hostages under Carter's reign? And their release upon hearing Reagan was elected? Remember the USS Cole and the Kobar Towers? Need I go on?

War is a terrible and very costly thing. It's far from the worst thing, though.

One problem we have is that so few of us have seen war, and there's been no "victory" by the US in wars since 1945. In Viet Nam, we collectively, through our "representatives" who shut down the Viet Nam war by shutting off funds for it, literally snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. The Viet Namese have candidly admitted they were in the process of working up a plan for the most advantageous surrender possible when they were totally shocked by our shutting down the war. We just plain dang QUIT, and did so right on the verge of victory.

It could be argued that we did something similar in Korea. Thus, we now have Kim Jung Il, and all the attendant problems there, and we have it RIGHT NOW.

Will we do the same in Iraq! It sure as heck looks like it, and we will NOT be the better for it, in ANY way, if indeed that happens. I personally fear it will.

Yeah, there are "problems" yet to be solved, and likely many yet to be faced. But the question nobody seems to address is "What then? What price do we wind up paying for starting the thing, and THEN just quitting???" It seems to me that this is the question that matters most, whether any of us WANT to face that fact or not.

I think I'll post a new thread with a fictional future article in a fictional newspaper. It ought to make even the meekest and most war-weary among us stop and think. Lemme go an' do dat rat now.