A new Flattop

[crash87]

http://ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkDE/specSheets/5240.html
Lipsey's 45 Colt w/45 ACP cylinder.
crash87

[MT Gianni]

If it shoots like their 44 specials they are going to need a bunch of them.

[Potsy]

Is this on their ".357" Flattop frame?
Will they be available with a 4-5/8" barrel?
If so, well....guess I'm gonna have to find something to trade on.

Does it ever end?

[redneckdan]

Seems like somebody at ruger finally got wacked with the clue bat. Now if they would only turn out a bisley .32 HR single six again.

[750k2]

I think I'm on a list - I just couldn't pass - my 44spcl Bisley just came yesterday.
Now this - boy am I glad I built my slush fund up.[smilie=p:

[WARD O]

THIS should be the platform for the 327 Fed Mag in a traditional six gun......

Now that ought to be worth two cents...

Ward

[crash87]

Is this on their ".357" Flattop frame?
Will they be available with a 4-5/8" barrel?
If so, well....guess I'm gonna have to find something to trade on.

Does it ever end?

Yes on the "Medium" Flattop frame, No on the 4-5/8", from what I understand, 5-1/2" barrel, AND this is a limited run for Lipsey's with 500 Blue / 500 Stainless steel. Get your orders in NOW!!
CRASH87

[Ed K]

In 45 Colt - hmmm... So what's a Blackhawk "Ruger Only" load these days?

[Trey45]

Whatever a Ruger Only load may be, you dare not use them in this smaller framed Blackhawk that's for certain. That being said, I still want one!

[Potsy]

REALLY wantin' a 4-5/8" gun. Dang.
I doubt I'd ever run it past 1000fps with 9.0grn. H-Universal & RCBS 270 SAA's. That's plenty past book loads, plenty of recoil in that gun, and oughta kill anything in my corner of Tennessee.
Besides, that is what my Bisley is for!

[Az Rick]

Way to go, Crash. Now another gun for the wish list. I ran outa money a long time ago. Guess I'll have to keep makin more, will this madness ever end? I have a Lipseys 44spl. Bisley flattop and it is sweet. This would certainly be a awesome revolver if it's anything like mine.

Best, Rick

[Dframe]

Seems like somebody at ruger finally got wacked with the clue bat. Now if they would only turn out a bisley .32 HR single six again.

I'd really like to see that one in 327 magnum. Perhaps with a slightly lengthened frame.

[crash87]

REALLY wantin' a 4-5/8" gun. Dang.
I doubt I'd ever run it past 1000fps with 9.0grn. H-Universal & RCBS 270 SAA's. That's plenty past book loads, plenty of recoil in that gun, and oughta kill anything in my corner of Tennessee.
Besides, that is what my Bisley is for!

I like it, I use that load with 250-270gr as my go to, everyday plinking, hunting, fun to shoot, accurate, did I mention fun to shoot, load. This new Ruger would be right at home with 9.0 gr. of Universal. :Fire:
crash87

[750k2]

I like it, I use that load with 250-270gr as my go to, everyday plinking, hunting, fun to shoot, accurate, did I mention fun to shoot, load. This new Ruger would be right at home with 9.0 gr. of Universal. :Fire:
crash87

You two are reading my notes or something - I'm getting more pumped about this one as every hour goes by - I'm #2 on my guys list - even said he'd let me pick between serial
numbers - Hope I pick better than with the lotto:confused:

[Piedmont]

Lipsey's should order up a bunch of those in .41 mag on that small frame with adjustable sights.

[PacMan]

Iagree with the 41 mag part.
I was told that there is some one doing one now. Williams maybe not sure.

[High Desert Hunter]

Mine should be here by Thursday, ordered it the day they were announced. I am thinking the RCBS 45 270-SAA and 9grs of Unique, my standard 45 Colt load.

[MT Gianni]

Mine should be here by Thursday, ordered it the day they were announced. I am thinking the RCBS 45 270-SAA and 9grs of Unique, my standard 45 Colt load.

When you get it please post the bbl and cylinder throat dimensions. I would like a dimension of the fired cases as well 1/10" up from the rim.

[WARD O]

Does anyone know the cylinder length or the max cartridge OAL? Does the RCBS SAA bullet fit in this gun?? It appears that it would be real close in the Lipsey's 44's cylinder.

Ward

[Potsy]

I'm guessing and may be waaay off the mark, I am ASSuming, and we all know what that means. Now that you know my qualifications, here goes:

The 270SAA was originally designed for the Colt SAA so I'm guessing it'll be no trouble at all in the "medium" framed Ruger. Further, I've not read of any problems with it in the New Model Vaquero, which should be the same cylinder length and dimensions.

I'll be hacked if the 270SAA don't fit. I like that boolit and mold lots more than my 454424.

Been looking over on the Ruger forum today. Lots of folks wantin' a 4-5/8" gun. A guy from Lipseys that posts on there is certainly not ruling it out.
I suspect (once again, assume, see above) that this will be like their .44 Specials and they know they'll sell pretty much everything they can spec to Ruger on this platform.

[Char-Gar]

I broke down and now have one on order. Good for Lipseys!

[Dale53]

Here is a reference to Handloader issue #246 April 2007 that contains a great Brian Pearce article specifically on the RCBS 45-270-SAA cast bullet.

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL%20246partial.pdf

It gives three different strength levels on .45 Colt revolvers. It specifically mentions the New Vaquero as a 20,000 psi revolver (which should be the same as the new Ruger Flattop mid frame .45 Colt) and gives a number of max loads for that revolver that approach 1000 fps+ with the RCBS bullet (285 grs in solid form) in that platform. I use this bullet in both solid and hollow point (Mihec mould - 270 grs hollow point and 285 solid point in WW's+2% tin sized .452") in my SS Bisley convertible. I shoot loads that run 900+ as my NORMAL even tho' my Bisley is the large frame and can handle "Ruger Only" loads. My loads are safe in the original (modern smokeless) Colt single action according to Pearce's strength levels.

At any rate, I consider this bullet a near perfect match with the .45 Colt cartridge at all three levels of power. Frankly, at the 14,000 psi Colt levels it makes a FINE deer load. This bullet has a large meplat and should punch through most game encountered in the lower 48.

I have two of the .44 Special Rugers and my lately acquired SS Bisley Convertible in .45 Colt (as well as an original Bisley Vaquero), so I'll not be a candidate for a new Flattop, but that doesn't mean I don't thoroughly appreciate the combination of a mid-frame Ruger Flattop in .45 Colt. I DO, I REALLY do!!

Dale53

[Char-Gar]

Lipsey's sold out of their first shipment of blue Flattop 45 on Friday. They are expecting more. Ruger has not made any of the stainless ones yet. If you want one, better get on the list as only 500 each (blue and stainless) will be made at this point.

They will start showing up on the market but at higher prices as folks try and take advantage of the folks who were slow out of the starting blocks.

[Potsy]

I'm gonna hold off till they come out with the 4-5/8" blued.
Probably gonna have to sell my Smith 624 to finance this one so I want it to be what I REALLY want.

[NHlever]

I had looked at a .45 Colt Ruger convertable a little while ago. The other day I went back to buy that if they still had it, but they didn't so that may have been a bit lucky on my part. The flattop would be much nicer if a bit heavier.

[Dale53]

Nhlever;
The SS Bisley .45 Colt/.45 ACP Convertible that I have has an all steel grip frame and ejector rod housing. I don't believe that the new .45 Colt Flattop will be heavier. In fact, since the cylinder is larger on the large frame, the SS Bisley Black Hawk should weigh a couple of ounces heavier.

On the other hand, the new Flattop will be plenty heavy enough (I presume it will be all steel just like the .44 Flattops). The Lipsey web site reads like both SS and Blued convertible flattops are all steel.

FWIW
Dale53

[Changeling]

If it won't handle normal/heavy .45 Ruger loads why is anyone excited about it?

[Potsy]

Changeling,
I started to make this post about gun weights, frame sizes, loads, extra ACP cylinders, and all kinds of arguments for this pistol.
Then it hit me that anyone who would dare bring logic to a new gun discussion like this might not understand all that.
So, I'll keep it simple. .45 Colt folks are kind of like .44 Special folks; if you stamped .45 Colt on the tapered end of a dog turd, they are not only going to want it, they'll also come up with a new class of load data for it.

[Dale53]

If it won't handle normal/heavy .45 Ruger loads why is anyone excited about it?

Well, let's see:
1 - .45 Colt caliber (great tradition with real results for 138 years)
2 - Adequate power for many people (from the Indian Wars, the
Cowboy and Indian years, the great trail drives, the Spanish
American War, and general outdoor use). The U.S. Army spec'd
this round to shoot through a horse at 100 yards - not exactly
a cream puff. The new Ruger Flattop will handle, on a continuous
basis, 20,000 psi loads. Again, not exactly a cream puff load.
3 - About 1873 Colt size (which means better handling than the
frame for many/most people) with excellent adjustable sights
and one of the most attractive styled revolvers ever for many
folks. Coupled with this is a revolver made of better materials
and with a reputation (as are all Rugers) for a very durable
piece.
4 - Less fuss, roar, and recoil than the "Ruger Only" loads enable
many to shoot better (remember, only HITS count).
5 - Priced so most anyone can afford it - this is VERY important for
many people.
6- How much power do you need? Every deer I have taken, could
have been neatly taken with one of the new .45 Colt Flattop
Rugers.

All of this coming from a man who probably won't be buying one. After all, I have a number of .45 Colt revolvers already (Rugers and USFA) as well as a safe full of .44 Specials and .44 Magnums. However, I could not help mentioning those very positive attributes of this "sure to be fine" new revolver.

Dale53

[WARD O]

So Dale - you want to lay down any $$$ that you will never own one of this series of Rugers?

Ward

[Dale53]

WARD O;
Not on your "chinny chin chin"...[smilie=1:

What I would really like to do is trade a LNIB USFA 5½" .45 Colt for one.

Dale53

[tek4260]

And that Mihec 270 fills the cylinder nicely! Shoots great over HS-6

[bigboredad]

I'm really interested to hear why non Ruger only loads and guns that can't shoot them are worthless

[tek4260]

Here is that 270 Mihec at 25 yards from a New Vaquero(with their horrible sights). This load is running 1000 fps from a 4 5/8 across my Chrony. That isn't too far behind a Ruger only load, which has never shown me the 1300+ fps that everyone claims.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/NV270hp12grhs-6.jpg

[Potsy]

Try 25grn. Win 296 over a CCI 350 Primer in Starline Brass for about 1350fps out of a 5-1/2" Blackhawk.
It'll get you 1300. You may have to grit your teeth a little, but it'll get you there.
It don't shoot too shabby either.

[Dale53]

tek4260;
That is excellent shooting for any iron sighted gun much less a fixed sight model. However, the Ruger Bisley Vaquero that I have has MUCH better fixed sights than the early Colts. They were HORRIBLE! Tapered front sight to nearly nothing on top and a "slit" for a rear sight. That is what I call HORRIBLE! My Ruger has a nice, full square notch rear and a proper width front sight to match. Once upon a time, I shot a 92x100 on the slow fire 50 yard target during a black powder match at a big BPCR Silhouette match. That is a GOOD revolver. Match regulations specified fixed sights and black powder.

Dale53

[WARD O]

Dale - thanks for the link to that article by Brian Pearce. I was pleased to see that my favorite load for my 4 5/8 NMBH of 13 gr of HS-6 with the RCBS SAA bullet should be safe to use in this new mid frame version. From experience, that load is plenty good for our Minnesota white tail.

Ward

[NHlever]

I'm really interested to hear why non Ruger only loads and guns that can't shoot them are worthless

Well, it's just human nature I guess. Folks buy powerful guns, and write in to see how they can load them down, and folks buy smaller guns, and want to know how hot they can load them. The standard Ruger 45 Colt Blackhawk has to be the lightest (in 4 5/8" guns) Blackhawk Ruger makes, and with "Ruger only" loads, it is one of the most powerful. Because of it's aluminum fram, and ejector rod housing, etc. my Blackhawk will probably be a couple of ounces lighter than the Lipsey's all steel flattop. That gun is advertised at 40 ounces, and my short barreled Blackhawk is about 36 ounces. That is nothing, and the flattop is a much different "feeling" gun, and will make one fine holster gun for about 95% of what anyone would want a big bore handgun for. I just heard about these, and I am just hoping my dealer can find one for me, hopefully a blued one. I suppose I could get one of my old model .357's converted, but they shoot so well that I hate to change them. That is why I have to say "one of them". I bought a couple of clunkers to have something for such projects, and found they shoot way too well as is to change........ except to clean them up, etc. If I find one the ACP cylinder will probably stay in it most of the time, and that way there will be no way to shoot the wrong loads in the wrong gun. Standard pressure loads are really enjoyable to shoot, have a very high "traditional" feel, and are just plain nice to use. I'm starting to like them so much that yesterday I traded a Super Blackhawk for a S&W 15-4.

[bigboredad]

NHlever
I also have a 4 5/8 .45 and yeah with a full load behind a 340gr bullet can be a bit of a shock to the system. But 300gr bullets loaded to around 900fps are a pure joy and I would really like to know there is in north America that a load like that can't handle. The comment of why would anyone be excited about the lipsey's flat top shows a total lack of understanding of the .45colt and the guns chambered for it and if someone needs to ask that question there nothing that an be said that can explain it.

I have 4 Rugers chanbered in the .45 colt and really wish I could swing one of the lipsey's flat tops. But I have a addiction to Ruger.45's I want them all.

[Char-Gar]

I have one of the 45 Flattops on order.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

The Ruger midsize frames are great, and I am happy to see that someone at Ruger finally got the hint. However their lack of imagination on naming the Blackhawks and Vaqueros is going to really bit them in the a--. Seriously why could they not stamp a different name on the frame? They are fine with stamping their whole safety manual on the side of the barrel, why not just call it something other than a Blackhawk or Vaquero?

[Changeling]

The Ruger midsize frames are great, and I am happy to see that someone at Ruger finally got the hint. However their lack of imagination on naming the Blackhawks and Vaqueros is going to really bit them in the a--. Seriously why could they not stamp a different name on the frame? They are fine with stamping their whole safety manual on the side of the barrel, why not just call it something other than a Blackhawk or Vaquero?

I really don't think there could possibly be a better way to address Ruger's decission to do what they did, BUT, It's there company!
Personally I don't want a single action revolver that cant adhere to "Max" Ruger charges! Hell I can always drop down in charges "AS NEEDED", why buy another Colt type "Look-A-Like" that is limited in it's capabilities to the colts already speifications? It still won't be a Colt!

Food for thought: What could you do to a stock Ruger Black Hawk with the additional cost "$$" of a new model.?:-?

[Char-Gar]

I for one think the original Ruger Flatop was a better design than the Colt SSA. Better sights, better springs, yet the same handling and balance (almost).

I am traditional enough to wish Ruger used the old original 3 screw Colt type lock work, but I don't guess it really matters. You can still get a very good trigger pull on the new set up and you do get a full six round capability.

I am thinking about sending my new 45 Flattop to Turnbull for a case hardened frame and rust blued grip, cylinder, barrel and ejector rod. Even with that it will come out a bunch cheaper than buying a new Colt SSA. But I will probably just change out those awful white plastic grips for mesquite wood and let it go.

John Taffin is sending his new 45 Flattop to Nutmeg for engraving, ivory stocks and a Turnbull finish as above.

PS: I have never been one for hot roding the 45 Colt round. I have always kept my loads down where they don't stress any pistol. If, I need to put the pedal to the metal, I use one of my 44 Magnums.

PPS: I don't think Ruger finally took the hint. Lipsey's ordered 1000 pistols to their specs. Ruger does listen to the sound of the cash register going ka-chink.

[LVRFAN]

I agree wiyh Chargar- EXCEPT when he says the Ruger is a "better" design. The Colt SAA was designed nearly 100 years before the the Ruger- there were no coil springs, adjustable sights etc... back then. This is like comparing a new car to a Ford model T. The Ruger is a NEWER design- not better. My 7.5" Colt will out shoot BOTH of my Blackhawks- even with the crappy old fixed sights and flat springs. I still LOVE my Rugers though.

[rintinglen]

Newer and better. Old doesn't always equal good. A hundred mile trip in model T is an adventure, in a late model T-bird it's an hour and a quarter. I like the balance of the SAA a bit better, but for shooting, sights and durability, the Ruger Rules.