.45-70

[Scrounger]

I have been told that I don't know what I want often enough that I believe it. I have already related the story of my selling my .444 Marlin and missing it so much I traded to get it back. Even so the .45-70 kept sending patrols into my mind, searching. I have a Contender carbine barrel and I look at every Handi-rifle in that caliber that goes up for bid. I keep thinking about various loads for it, 3 ball, shot, flares, whatever. It just won't leave me alone. So I decided that I'm going to sell the .444, the man who bought it before said he'd buy it back if I ever got rid of it; sell the Contender barrel, and buy a Marlin 1895. Only question is, do I want the 22 inch barrel or the 18 inch ported? Can you really tell a recoil difference? Is the muzzle blast obnoxious? I like the pistol grip stock of the 22 inch barrel and I like the looks of the shorter barrel. Wished they made a 20 inch barrel model with full length magazine.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

I'd just buy the 22" and play with it for a bit. You can always take off barrel if you want....darned hard to put some extra on.

If you want to shorten it...here is a possibility:

http://www.hunt101.com/img/421153.JPG (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=421153&c=500&z=1)

This was a standard 1895SS that I've shortened to 16.25"....I have another standard on hand, so just having one short rifle didn't bother me much. The only complaint that I have is the red dot sets a bit hight for my tastes....I need to find shorter rings for it.

And the muzzle blast difference....well it is noticable. Especially for the persons shooting beside you on a firing line. But carefully playing with a couple of different powders will help on the unburnt powder and muzzle blast experience for you.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

And if you would like to see the visual difference in the 22 vs 16.25"


http://www.hunt101.com/img/412555.JPG (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=412555&c=544&z=1)

[Scrounger]

You're probably not going to find shorter rings than that. But you can buy a monte carlo chheekpiece to raise the level of your eyes on the stock. We just went through this for someone here recently. I think Cabella's had just what he wanted.

[35remington]

If your base is Weaver ring type compatible, try the Burris Super Low Zee Rings. It's what I've got with my red dot on my 336. Make sure the adjustment saddle clears the base with these rings; best to try before you buy, if possible. Lower is definitely worth it.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

Thanks on the heads-up with the Burris rings....I'm looking into it!

[calaverasslim]

I have the longer barrel, 24", on a 1895 LTD IV and wouldn't trade it for the world. Full length magazine makes this a sweet handling rifle and well balanced. Not to mention that since I go for the traditional look, the octagon barrel adds that look I like.

Good luck what ever you decide on.

[9.3X62AL]

Scrounger--

If you plan to ramp up loads past 1873 levels, that extra barrel length (and weight) might be a benefit.

[SharpsShooter]

Scrounger--

If you plan to ramp up loads past 1873 levels, that extra barrel length (and weight) might be a benefit.

I agree with that wisdom. I am shooting a 514gr paper patch boolit to 1500fps (Read 300fps faster than Trapdoor loads) out of my 7 pound 1895 Marlin. If it were any lighter, the recoil might be more than I can enjoy.:-D

I'd go with the extra barrel length for two reasons, weight and sight radius.


SS

[Nrut]

I agree with that wisdom. I am shooting a 514gr paper patch boolit to 1500fps (Read 300fps faster than Trapdoor loads) out of my 7 pound 1895 Marlin. If it were any lighter, the recoil might be more than I can enjoy.:-D

I'd go with the extra barrel length for two reasons, weight and sight radius.


SS

Heck SS I find a 400gr. at 1500FPS in my guide gun uncomfortable off the bench....:(

[9.3X62AL]

My current 45-70 (Ruger #1) at about 7-1/4# provides recoil entertainment in surplus amounts with the rip-snorter loads, and a couple 1895's I've had in the past (both 22" barrels) were about the same. 95% of my loads these days are set at 1873 levels, and are all-day propositions. I'm still gazing wistfully at a 95 Marlin at a local shop......which I need about like a trout needs a mountain bike. I keep telling myself. It's just such a good caliber, and in such a good rifle. That last sentence explains about half of the content of my gun safe, FWIW.

[SharpsShooter]

Heck SS I find a 400gr. at 1500FPS in my guide gun uncomfortable off the bench....:(

Nrut,

My pet load for my 1895 is a 420gr Lyman 457193 at 1400fps. It is a 2" group gun at 100yds on a regular basis. It is not too unpleasant when you compare it to the following recent experience I had at the range.

The paper patch smokeless loads for the 1895 were part of a test I conducted recently and managed to producing 1.5 “ 3 shot groups at 50yds. That 514gr paper patched bullet at 1500fps produced recoil that was something to behold, pushing my 155-pound frame back half a foot and giving muzzle climb of better than a foot off the forward bag. Firing the first one was sorta like being struck by lightning and the rest were a real test to shoot. I only loaded 10 of those for that test and I am glad they are gone. I have a high tolerance for recoil or at least I once did, but that load will not be repeated unless they bring back dinosaur hunting. Honestly, the need for high velocity with the heavier weight boolits is just not there. All you manage to do is beat yourself up and not accomplish anything more than a good Black Powder load.

SS

[Nrut]

Nrut,

My pet load for my 1895 is a 420gr Lyman 457193 at 1400fps. It is a 2" group gun at 100yds on a regular basis. It is not too unpleasant when you compare it to the following recent experience I had at the range.

The paper patch smokeless loads for the 1895 were part of a test I conducted recently and managed to producing 1.5 “ 3 shot groups at 50yds. That 514gr paper patched bullet at 1500fps produced recoil that was something to behold, pushing my 155-pound frame back half a foot and giving muzzle climb of better than a foot off the forward bag. Firing the first one was sorta like being struck by lightning and the rest were a real test to shoot. I only loaded 10 of those for that test and I am glad they are gone. I have a high tolerance for recoil or at least I once did, but that load will not be repeated unless they bring back dinosaur hunting. Honestly, the need for high velocity with the heavier weight boolits is just not there. All you manage to do is beat yourself up and not accomplish anything more than a good Black Powder load.

SS

Well I'm just leaving to have dinner with a friend who I believe has that mold.[smilie=1: ....What powder are you using under that bullet?....:)

[lovedogs]

I'd base my choice of bbl. length on what I planned to do with the rifle. Do you need it quick and short? Or will your shots be more deliberate and longer in range? Personally, I find this thing about using shorter bbl. for brush hunting to be highly overrated. I have one 26 incher and a 32 incher and have no problems. The 32 incher can be a little long sometimes but usually isn't a problem. The 26 incher has never been a hinderance. In my own opinion I like the longer barrels because they have better balance and a better (longer) sight radius which, for me, makes hits come easier. Longer barrels make your ears ring less, also. I guess I just like long barrels... but for what I consider valid reasons.

[felix]

Me too, Lovedogs. But, as I approached 55 I had to make a change. 20" is more my speed now for snap shootin'. Strength goes down hill fast. ... felix

[Lloyd Smale]

I wish malin would bring back the oct. barreled 18 incher or better yet a 20 incher. With the added weight of an oct barrel the 20 inch gun would handle as well as a 22 inch round gun and look a hell of a lot better doing it!! My buddys got an 18 inch one and its a sweetheart. Ive been trying to find one for a while now.

[Char-Gar]

Back about 1960, I had P.O. Ackley rebore a rusted out winchester 86 in 40-82 to 45-70 and shorten the barrrel to 19". It was sorta early Guide Gun. I took a few deer with it, but never did develop an affection for the short barrel, prefering the 26" barrel on my other 86 in 45-70.

When I picked up my first Marlin 1895 SS with the 22" bbl and half magazine it was love at first swing. It has the balance and pointability of a Winchester 64. My current 1895 SS has the Ballard rifling and wears a Redfield 102 rear and a Redfield Sourdough Patridge front sight and is a real tack driver.

Not to long ago, I came by a 1895 Guide Gun with the short 18" barrell and one range session was enough for me to trade it off.

Those stumpy barrels might offer some advantages getting in and out of an airplane or vehicle, but once you get on your feet with the rifle in your hand, the longer barrel has it all over the short ones...

The long barrel handles better, gives a longer sight radius and handles recoil better. It needs to be said, that these Marlin leverguns are rather light and can kick like the dickens when folks try and supercharge their loads. There is not much to be gained in the 45-70 to push a cast bullet much past 1.5K fps.

Just one fellows opinion who has spent 47 years with the 45-70.

[Whit Spurzon]

Can you really tell a recoil difference? Is the muzzle blast obnoxious? I like the pistol grip stock of the 22 inch barrel and I like the looks of the shorter barrel. Wished they made a 20 inch barrel model with full length magazine.

I can't tell the difference in recoil in ported vs. non. The ports are obnoxious to the guys at the bench beside you. I didn't keep the ported barrel because there wasn't an upside to me. But I did pick up an unported 1895GS to fill that niche.

Conversely I have a friend who purchased a new unported 1895 and ported it. He thinks it was a big improvment. I'm not certain if he's talking performance or the fact that he got me to move a few benches away from him...

I do think a guide gun length pistol grip 1895 would look sharp. I've been considering getting an XLR and modifying it. For now Im quite pleased with my 1895 (22") and my 1895GS Guide Gun.

[Scrounger]

Thanks, guys, for all the opinions. Most of them seem to go along with my own preference for the 22 inch barrel. It just looks more right. And the few ported guns I've shot didn't seem to offer any less recoil than the un-ported versions. But recoil to a large degree is a subjective quantity. I have the feeling in my mind that the increased muzzle blast seems to make up for any reduction in actual recoil force. The mathematics probably say different...

[NickSS]

I have marlin 1895s in three barrel lengths (18.5", 22" and 26") They all shoot good. They all kick really aggressively with heavy loads and 400 gr boolets. As I do not like to be kicked and they kill deer and elk just fine with lighter loads, I usually load no hotter than 1873 Springfield loads. I have shot 500 + gr. boolits in my rifles but like them around 300 gr far more as I get flatter trajectories. My favorit boolet is the RCBS 45-325-FN which casts about 332 gr with the alloy I use. That boolit and 31 gr of AA 5744 has taken deer and elk at moderate ranges without a problem. I will say that the ported barrel on my Guide gun reduces felt recoil about 30% with the same load as compared to my 22 inch barrel. I believe Marlin has discontinued porting their barrels as there was a noise issue. My favorit length for hunting is the 22 inch barreled rifle.

[Scrounger]

Guess I'll get the 22 inch but I'd like 20 inches better. What would be neat, if I had the ability, would be to set the barrel back 2 inches and cut a better chamber in it. Might improve accuracy.

[EDK]

Have you considered the COWBOY model 1895 Marlin? 26 inch octagon barrel and full magazine gives you some weight---and less muzzle blast than a GUIDE GUN. I like mine. ( I"ve also got a Davidsons' LTD-? with a pistol grip stock and octagon barrel, but I just can't warm up to the pistol grip after shooting 1894s for 30 plus years.)

:castmine:

[Red River Rick]

Scrounger:

I have a 86 that was rebarreled to 45-70. It started life as a .33 Rapid Taper, but was short lived.

I put on a 24" octagon barrel, 1-20" twist. half mag. I've been shooting a 405 gr Lee HP, pushed with 40 grs. of H332. A bit stiff due to the cresent style buttplate, but very accurate up to 200 yds. The muzzle blast is a bit much, but, then again, I don't shoot 100's of rounds thru it at a time.

The shorter barrel and half mag make for a quick pointing rifle, great for Elk and Moose.

RRR

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

I'm not trying to influence you in any way, but here's a picture of two Marlins. One is my Short Barrelled Distributer of Badness, which was pictured at the beginning of this thread, and my friends Green Mountain barrelled Marlin with full length magazine tube.

We do run the gamut between the two of us....
http://www.hunt101.com/img/454012.JPG (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=454012&c=562&z=1)

[Scrounger]

You're both wrong, Bubba, yours is too short and his is too long. I'd like a 20 inch barrel but I'll settle for the 22 inch. Best of both worlds???

[Four Fingers of Death]

Scheeeooooooooooot Boy, have you no respect for your ears at all? You'll have to wear a welders mask and apron with that one! Mick.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

Scrounger, I know I'm not giving you what you're looking for; just being facetious with my dry humor.

I still have my original 1895ss, and won't part with that one. It puts down everything that I hit with it. I need to do my part, but then that is something any rifle will do as we are the brain behind the machine. I have yet to baptized the SBDB in blood yet, as I'm not completely hooked on optics...but the time is coming. And don't forget, I hunt open plains/small hills and valleys, no creeping up on critters here. I probably need the extra barrel length for performance, but the booolits hitting around the deer this year made as much noise/big impact area as my old faithful. I was just pulling or holding wrong or something.....

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

Mick, you're right. My biggest advice is to NOT shoot the SBDB into a headwind at very close range. The sandblasting from the unburnt powder (33.0 gr H4198) made for an unpleasant eye experience. Gopher hunting is F U N!!! with this little rifle though. :))

[lovedogs]

I know what you mean, Felix. I'm gonna be 59 this month and I have noticed that some of my heavier guns are more challenging than they used to be. I can still outwalk a long-legged horse but am starting to take the hills a little slower, too. We gotta shoot and we gotta walk so we do the best we can. Once in a while we can still show the young bucks a thing or two, can't we?