Shot shells for 577 snider

[chrispy]

Hi all,

In Skennertons Treatise on the Snider and Martini Henry, it is mentioned about shotgun cartridges for the Snider. Has anyone tried this? Anyone made/used them. What powder loads/wads/fillers etc are used?

Let me know.

Chrispy

[NickSS]

I have not made snyder bird shot loads but I have made 45-70 bird shot loads and they work fine at close range for potting rabbits and grouse. All I do is load 35 gr of FFFG with a card wad and a couple of felt wonder wads. Add a half ounce of bird shot and top it with a card wad that I hold in place with a little hot melt glue. It works pretty good out to 10 yards or so but beyond that the patters get blown

[DrtRacr09]

I haven't loaded any for my Sniders yet but there is alot of info about it over on surplusrifle.com. Jamison makes correct brass (expensive) or they can be made from brass 24 Gauge shotgun shells. Do a search for .577 snider, user jbrower, he has been using 70 Grains FFg with .600 roundballs. Hope this will help.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I recently made some cases from Magtek 24ga brass shotshells. Not as easy at it seems, they require annealing and trimming. Compared to properly formed brass they are very thin and may not hold a boolit very well. BTW, I got better results by standing the cases in HOT water than cold. Because the brass is very thin, cold water limits the amount of anealing taking place down at the water line.

Magtek (L) and Bertram formed brass (R)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Compare-1.jpg

Stages of forming
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Stages.jpg

[chrispy]

Well I assembled two shotshellsfor my snider. I figured the rifle I am using has next to no rifling, so it is not a waste.

First I used a 10mm hole punch, which has a outside diameter of half an inch, to use as a mandrel for forming the paper shot holder. The principle of paper patching is used to make the holder. I used a 80gsm copy paper, wrapped 2.5 times around, and pinched/folded in the bottom.

I checked up load data for the 24 gauge shotgun cartridge, and settled on 50gn of 2f as a 'mild' load. Compressed and with three milk container wads, felt wad and lube wad over that. The paper holder, still wrapped on the mandrel is inserted in the case, and twisted as to slightly 'unwind' the holder into the case. I used some failed 297/230 projectiles, all about 40gn, in two layers of four projectiles. Semolina being used as a filler to fill the gaps and hopefully avoid shot compression.

The top of the shot container was then twisted off in line with the case mouth. So a total load of 320gn of shot, 50gn of 2f.

Off to the range tomorrow to test it out. I doubt patterning will be good, but I am only hoping for a 25metre load here.

Chrispy

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Should be a perfect load for sabre-toothed field mice[smilie=w::dung_hits_fan:

[Boz330]

Should be a perfect load for sabre-toothed field mice[smilie=w::dung_hits_fan:

Those are the worst! I didn't know they had those in OZ. If they were in NZ as well you would need purple long johns to hunt them.

Bob

[mtnman31]

Can't wait to hear your results. I've got a Snider that I'm interested in trying something similar in.

[Red River Rick]

I found this info years ago. It was printed in a NRA magazine and I copied it, it may be helpful.


MK 1 Buckshot:

Approved January 16, 1868, this cartridge was introduced about the times of the threatened Fenian disturbance in January of 1868. It was issued to convict prisons and was also in use in case of riots.

The case generally resembles that of the MK V Ball, but is shorter.

The charge is a pellet of about 59 to 63 grains of fine grain black powder, with shallow perforations in front as well as behind. Sixteen (16) Buckshot (220 per pound / .270 dia) were placed in a paper bag, and the interstices (voids) filled with plaster of paris; the filled bag was placed mouth down on a little cotton wool over the pellets, the round bag end (on top) looked something like a bullet point, the case and bag were united with Shellac.


MK II Buckshot:

It is not know when this was approved, but it was mentioned in official publications as late as 1897.

Designed for rifle or carbine use, it was also issued for convict-guard service, as well as for service in Ashantee. Similar in construction to the Snider service ball cartridge, the charge was 52 to 56 grains of FG rifle powder, topped by a disc and felt wad lubricated with beeswax.

The cartridge contained thirteen (13) buckshot, weighing about 220 per pound. The buckshot was placed in a paper bag, the voids then filled with bone dust and inserted in the cartridge case, thus secured with shellac cement.


Second from the right is a Buckshot round (short Snider) made by Dominion Cartridge Co, Canada. The intent was to reduce recoil for the carbines.

:drinks:
RRR

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Those are the worst! I didn't know they had those in OZ. If they were in NZ as well you would need purple long johns to hunt them.
Bob
And rabbit stealing flaming lizards:-? You need wear brown trousers for them:veryconfu

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Picture014.jpg

[David todd]

Hi all,

In Skennertons Treatise on the Snider and Martini Henry, it is mentioned about shotgun cartridges for the Snider. Has anyone tried this? Anyone made/used them. What powder loads/wads/fillers etc are used?

Let me know.

Chrispy
I have some originals, as well as paper cartridge bullets and brass cartridges as well
.
I've loaded my Snider with shot before, but the bullets are accurate enough for shooting partrige so I don't bother loading shot.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/catnthehat/northernguidewithtrophy.jpg
David

[the_shed_man]

G'day all!

Here's a link to a bloke reloading .577 Snider using 24 gauge plastic shot shells:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwWigu3OJvM

Seems to work OK!

Cheers!

Rod

[JeffinNZ]

Those are the worst! I didn't know they had those in OZ. If they were in NZ as well you would need purple long johns to hunt them.

Bob

I resemble that remark!

[Ed in North Texas]

I have to admit that I would have answered exactly as Bad ***, as my first impression was Chris was asking about using the 24 gauge brass shotshells (Magtech) to form brass for the .577 Snider (and .577-450 Martini-Henry). Learn something every day. I could be wrong, but I suspect the shotgun cartridges were not developed to reduce recoil in the carbines. The Brit's answer to that problem in the .577-450 a bit more than a decade later was a lighter boolit and powder charge, not developing a shotgun cartridge. That seems to me to be a more logical answer to the problem for a military long arm. However, my recollection is in the 19th Century there were cartridges developed for foraging for meat for the troops. These shot cartridges could have served a triple purpose, Prison Guard, riot control and foraging.

[excess650]

And rabbit stealing flaming lizards:-? You need wear brown trousers for them:veryconfu

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Picture014.jpg

If I encountered a lizard like that my trousers would be brown![smilie=l:

[tacklebury]

I have had better luck using RB loads than shot in my .45-70. I have had decent luck with my .45 LC Blackhawk and shot loads though. ;)

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/tacklebury/4570roundball.jpg

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/tacklebury/45coltspeershotcapsule6.jpg