.455 Webley mark VI

[lapierre1]

Anyone got a favorite load for the .455 Webley mark VI using a 255 grain bullet sized to .455, what else, and Unique. I had been going to use 6.0 grains of Unique but was told that was a bit stout for this revolver. Would consider another powder but have lots of Unique and like it. I have both the longer and shorter brass with small and large primer pockets. Supposedly these Webleys are built stouter than the brick outhouse and could take the load but being built in 1918, the revolver not me, I'd just as soon shoot something out of it that's friendly to both of us.

[Skrenos]

Webleys converted to fire .45 acp (by turning the rear of the cylinder down) will eventually shoot loose. The .45 acp compared to .455 webley is like a proof load. Keep it around 600fps or so and it'll be fine. Your load sounds way too powerful for the revolver.

[klcarroll]

For "Serious Business", a Mark 6 in good condition will certainly tolerate 6.0 grains of Unique under a 255 lead SWC.

But it you want that faithful old veteran to be around for another 100 years, use 5.5 grains as your max "range" load: ....Better yet, a 230 grain RNL target load at around 725 fps.

That load will still put anything on two legs down hard (....if you do your part!): ......and the Mark 6 Webleys will shoot that load forever!

Kent

[lapierre1]

Thanks for the reply. I am going to pull those bullets and dump the 6.0 of Unique. Seemed too hot when i loaded them and I was concerned about shooting it in the revolver. Wish you could see what they've done to the poor old guy, I got it at an auction for 20$, bright nickel and pearl grips. All the markings are there and very visible. Good job on the nickel but... What a sight, though it is fun to shoot regardless of what it looks like. Thanks again for the feedback.

[Ilwil]

Our club uses a disabled Mark VI as a teaching aid in NRA Basic Pistol classes. It was ruined because many years ago, its owner fired six rounds, reloaded, and on the 10th or 11th shot, the barrel ruptured, showing some of the slugs stacked in the bore. An x-ray showed the entire bore is filled with bullets to the muzzle.
Apart from the smallish rupture, the rest of the revolver was not affected. This is testament to the vagaries of hand loading, shooter inattention to the first, squib-loaded cartridge, and the brute strength of the Webley.

[Dutchman]

Webley revolver models run Mark I to Mark VI.

British military .455 cartridge models are also designated as Mark I through Mark VI. They do not correlate with the revolver "marks".

The Webley Story by Dowd::::::

Proof "Cartridge, S.A. proof, revolver, .455 inch Mark I... approved May 16, 1915...

265 grain seated in a way as to require 80 to 100 pounds to extract it....

"In each case the actual charge was such as to give specified ballistics; the most important requirement for this class of cartridge being pressure, and the specification called for a mean chamber pressure of between 6.25 and 7.75 tons per square inch (the copper crushers of the pressure gauge being initially compressed to 5.5 tons per square inch)."

These are proof cartridges.

6.25 tons per square inch = 12,050 pounds per square inch. No!

6.25 Long tons = 14,000 pounds per square inch PROOF PRESSURE
7.75 Long tons = 17,360 pounds per square inch PROOF PRESSURE

Lyman 4th edition Cast Bullet Manual... for comparison only:

.45 acp with 230 gr Lee using 5.7 grs Unique = 874 fps and 17,600 cup.

The Webley revolver is a weinnie when it comes to power. It's reputation as a man killer is due to the use of a heavy bullet... 265 grains.. and in some cases the "man stopper" bullet which was outlawed by the Geneva Convention. A big honkin' heavy bullet doing 600 fps will drop a big honkin' drugged out native with a bad attitude with excellent regularity. On paper it isn't very impressive but dead is dead.

Many Webleys have been destroyed with regular shooting of .45 acp when the cylinders have been shaved..... lathe trimmed to allow half-moon clips or .45 AutoRim.

My load in the Mark VI below was the Speer Cowboy .454" 255 grain swaged soft lead with 4 grs Unique in .45 AutoRim cases as this revolver was modified. It delivered the correct and proper Webley experience without undue wear and tear on the old chap.

http://images28.fotki.com/v1004/photos/2/28344/157842/webley2-vi.jpg

[Tom Herman]

Dutchman is quite correct. My loading for the Mark VI is 4.3 grains of Unique for a top end load. I've seen Cartridge of the World loads at 5 grains, but I wouldn't use them personally.
Here's a GREAT link to show you what happens when you use .45 ACP in the .455 Webleys: http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/9296/CAUTION--455-REVOLVERS-ALTERED--SHOOT-45-ACP--45-Auto-Rim .
The Mark VI is a great shooter, you'll enjoy it... I cast my own 265 grain HBRN bullets, 50/50 scrap lead to wheel weights (cast HOT!) lubed with my home made version of SPG ($5/pound): It's accurate, and has no leading. Beats any of the Fiocchi junk offered.
I use the Hornady brass. Looking forward to shooting the Mark VI again when I eventually get my cylinder back from Truitt's in Oklahoma... They're re-doing the cylinder from .45 ACP back to .455 Webley.
Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[lapierre1]

This old revolver is still .455 Webley and not shaved down. Other than the nickel finish and pearl grips it is in great shape. Looks aren't everything, that's for sure, and the gun is a great shooter with the factory ammo I have used, Hornady and Fiocchi, which is what I bought in order to get brass and get to shooting since I didn't have any reloading dies for it at the time. It is a keeper which is why I was looking for the voices of reason as far as a load went. Not much in the reloading manuals for the .455 and 3.8 and 4 grains of Unique are a long way from the 6 that I've got loaded for it now. Like I say they are going to get the bullet puller treatment. I've got a 255 grain mold I use for my single actions and cowboy shooting which is what I am going to cast boolits with to use in it. I like the big, heavy, slow bullets, revolvers and rifles. Guess that's why I am, among other big, heavy, slow boolit shooters, a .50-70 fan. Again, thanks for the help.

[Grapeshot]

The Webley revolver is a weinnie when it comes to power. It's reputation as a man killer is due to the use of a heavy bullet... 265 grains.. and in some cases the "man stopper" bullet which was outlawed by the Geneva Convention. http://images28.fotki.com/v1004/photos/2/28344/157842/webley2-vi.jpg

Contrary to long standing belief, the "Geneva Convention" deals only with the treatment of Prisonors of war. It is the Hauge Convention that decided that hollow point or soft point ammunition were not to be used on enemy troops. That is why all ammo for small arms used on enemy troops are FULL METAL JACKETED. It seems that the Europeans don't like the idea of civilized war fighters using ammo that causes massive wounds that don't kill you outright. They would rather get wounded and perhaps survive.

[BobHarget]

Contrary to long standing belief, the "Geneva Convention" deals only with the treatment of Prisonors of war. It is the Hauge Convention that decided that hollow point or soft point ammunition were not to be used on enemy troops. That is why all ammo for small arms used on enemy troops are FULL METAL JACKETED. It seems that the Europeans don't like the idea of civilized war fighters using ammo that causes massive wounds that don't kill you outright. They would rather get wounded and perhaps survive.

However, our police still insist on using hp or sp ammo against civilians.

[randyrat]

I had the privilege to shoot my dad's Webley about 40 years ago. One of the first 45's I shot as a young chap. That is one pistol I never forgot about, it was a very interesting pistol.

[lapierre1]

I've got a pair of them-the .455, which is in the best shape, and one in .38 S&W, really an Enfield and not a Webley, which I actually bought for the holster and the ammo which came with it. The Enfield needs some work, out of time in double action mode and I am afraid it will shave some lead off of a boolit if you fire it that way. Never have shot it since it needs the work done on it and now I don't have the holster either. But I did save the .38 S&W brass and use it in my Victory model S&W so it wasn't a total loss.

[Dutchman]

It is the Hauge Convention

My memory is faulty at times.

den Haag is spelled "the Hague" by non-Dutch volk. What you spelled is hauge like gauge :).

Dutch

[The Virginian]

The Webley here seems to be cut for .45 ACP/Auto-Rim, however it should be handloaded to .455 Webley ballistics.

[plesant3]

I'm using 265 gr "traditional" Webley bullets cast in the RCBS mould (the long, pointy round nose, hollow base one) over 3.3 gr. of Bullseye in my unshaved Mk VI. I found it gives much better accuracy than similar-velocity loads of slower powders like Unique. It also yields much cleaner fired cases, which makes me think it's burning more completely. I also suspect the faster-burning powders do a better job of "sealing" the hollow base. My cases are made from cut-down, neck reamed, rim-swaged .45 Colt cases, and the bullets are coated with brown-copper Hi-Tek. Cheap, but tedious to make, and no one will mistake them for anything other than Webley cartridges.