Bird Scare 12ga ammo

[secondshooter]

Hi, im thinking about making some 12 ga bird scare ammo, my uncle has a problem on his small farm but cant use live ammo as its too close to a residential area, there is comercially produced bird scare ammo but its not avaliable here so i would like to try and make some, a quick google search produced no reloading data, dose anybody here have any experience loading(and making the projectile) this type of ammo? dont know if this is the right place on the forum to ask this question but had to try somewhere.
cheers tim

[Three44s]

This is no reflection on NZ but here in the US it's come to having a license even for the little flare launcher bird bombs ........ it's got the farmers REAL STEAMED!!

So if you can't find them there ....... there might be a law against them.

As far as making them ......... you'll need to do some extensive searching. I went over to 37mm.com and it's practically NUETERED from it's old days and I could not find info on building toilet paper there!!

Also, the things that you make bird bombs up with are pretty unstable. Lots of fingers have been lost collectively.

So, I'd check the legality where you are and weigh your fingers.

What most of the farmers did here was go with LEAD!! In your uncle's case, have you considered an air gun?

Doubt I've helped you at all! ............ sorry.

Three 44s

[secondshooter]

Thanks for the input Three44, they are legal here but the local farm supply dosnt sell them as they are around $10 a shot and as you say lead works just as well for scareing birds. another thing is the birds in question are pukekos (swamp hen) and are nice to have around,as long as they dont eat young crops. i will look at making some blanks, maybe thats the answer.

[Jim]

I reloaded blanks for a western reenactment group a few years back. For 12 gauge, we bought 12 gauge brass, poured the case to about 1/2 inch from the top with loose black powder, and stopped it with a 1/2 inch thick sheet of florist's foam by pressing the sheet down over the top of the shell. The shell actually fit cuts the disc. If the shells are not handled rough, the foam disc will stay in the shell.
Loosely poured, when the powder is lit off, it burns fantastically fast, creating one heck of a BOOOM!! The foam disintegrates to the molecular level. It made for some really nice effects in a skit.

[Three44s]

Ten dollars for a bird bomb? What's the world comming to???

I'd stick'em on the barbie for ten bucks!!!

So far as blanks ........... would some shot buffer give the bird a "rug burn"???


Three 44s

[ironhead7544]

Years ago I could buy 12 ga all plastic see through ammo that had a big firecracker inside it. The fire cracker was a standard M80. When shot it went up about 56-60 feet and went off with a good bang. If fireworks are legal over there you might be able to duplicate that load somehow.

[secondshooter]

the good fireworks were banned about 15 years ago, too many kids getting injured so i guess it not a bad thing, i think we can still get bottle rockets so i will check that out, there will proably be something on the net about making them, i will check google out???

[stubshaft]

We used to call them poppers and they were used to scare birds and stock animals.

[Chicken Thief]

Some fast powder an over powder wad and then fill with 6mm soft air gun pellets before finishing with another wad.

[skeet1]

secondshooter,
I used to live in Colorado and the Div. of Wildlife had some 12 ga. shells we called "cracker shells". They were a regular 12 ga. hull loaded with a charge of smokeless powder and an M80 type of firecracker. when you shot these shells it would light the fuse and launch the firecracker around 100 yards and explode. They used them to chase the elk out of hay stacks in the winter. You might check with your local game warden and see if they have any such things that they would part with.

Ken

[turbo1889]

I could explain how to build these things if you wish since I used to be quite a pyro-head in my younger days.

There is one significant question I need an answer too first though before I can justify the time it takes to explain each and every step and the necessary safety precautions to go about building such devices from scratch:

Can you get black powder in NZ? Is it the real stuff or a substitute?

You have to have BP to build those things, it can be done with modern BP substitutes but it complicates the time fusing of the explosive charge significantly. I don't think it can be done with just plane old smokeless powder even BullsEye or IMR-TB.

[GabbyM]

Center fire rifle will make a boomer of a blank.
I’ve about 150 cases here loaded up . 243 Win to fire form to 243 AI. Using 10 grains Unique then Cream of Wheat cereal toped with a wax plug. You do not shoot those without hearing protection. More pressure at the muzzle than a shotgun equals bigger boom.

[bhn22]

It sounds like the shotgun idea probably won't pan out for your uncle. Perhaps he should look into whistles, sirens or other noise makers. I've heard of carbide cannons being used in some areas for bird control. He might discuss the issue with the local gendarmes and see if they have any suggestions.

[secondshooter]

Turbo1889 we can get black over here, i have a tin of 3f elephant in my powder safe, one thing we cant get is fuze, i googled skyrocket making but all the diy versions used commercial fuze so i gave up that idea, if your homebrew bangers dont need store bought fuze they mau be what im looking for?

[cajun shooter]

Another idea is the one used in Louisiana by the rice farmers who lose millions to the Red Wing Blackbird. They have a propane bottle that is connected to a timer and other equipment that makes a huge boom that is determined by the timer. I don't know what is involved but have seen them working in the rice fields. The first time one went off close to me I was sucking up marsh mud afterwards. I just knew that a bomb had come in. The Louisiana wildlife and fisheries would be a place to start or the Rice Farmers themselves.

[Harter66]

I once put a typical Red Dot load in a 12ga case with a avalible wad and a regular crimp which turned completely inside the case over the wad petals . That made a very impressive bang for about a dime a pop. Unless you hit someone/thing less than 20ft away they're pretty harmless. It'll use up your junk hulls too.

[turbo1889]

Okay, here we go. First a picture showing the steps in the process from left to right:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2390/5790939351_60dce1128e_b.jpg



1. ~ First you need to roll yourself some heavy wall tubes from brown paper. This in and of itself can be a science and there are a variety of methods of doing this. My personal favorite is to use industrial brown paper packing take that is just like the old “lick and stick” stamps and you wet the back-side to activate the glue. It is commonly called “Gummed Tape” here in the US but can be difficult to obtain for the private individual in any quantity less then a full size industrial case of the stuff. Obviously, you could go as simple as old brown paper bags and glue if you wish. The important thing is that it is tightly wound so it dries to be a hard, stiff, strong tube. Outside diameter is important, for a 12ga. you want the outside diameter to be about 0.69” inches since this is the common inside diameter of a full choke in the 12ga. Tubes must be completely dried and of consistent length and inside and outside diameter before proceeding. You may make the internal diameter any size you wish but I suggest 3/8” since it is easy to obtain a wood dowel in that size and it makes for nice thick walls on the tube.

2. ~ Next you need to construct a ceramic base plug in the popper that has a fusing hole in it. The fusing hole needs to be small enough that it allows the main popper charge to build up enough pressure to do its job but at the same time not so small as to compromise the reliability of the fuse. The thickness of this ceramic base plug and thus the length of the fusing hole will directly determine the timing of the fuse which is by no means the rope fuse your are used to (explained in the next step). The best way to accomplish all this is to use a nail driven through a board and pointed upwards to form the fuse hole and use a length of dowel with a clearance hole drilled in the center to fit the nail as a packing ram for the ceramic medium. The best choice we have here in the US for the ceramic medium is “Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty” the reason it is the best is because not only is it very strong and minimally brittle but it also slightly expands while drying instead of slightly shrinking like most water activated ceramic fillers. You will need to find something comparable in NZ if this product is not immediately available to you. It should be mixed very stiff almost like bread dough and tightly packed into place.

3. ~ For a mortar fuse that is ignited by the launching charge one needs a fusing assembly that can withstand high pressures and temperatures and won’t “flash” the popper charge prematurely. In other words the fusing assembly needs to be totally sealed and completely isolate the popper charge so that there isn’t any chance of the darn thing going off before it clears the barrel. This is accomplished by hard packing black powder into a fuse bore. First you take some white glue and thin it with water by a little more then a one to one ratio so that it resembles milk. Then you take a small amount of BP and slightly dampen it with your thinned glue until you have something that is the consistency of putty (It don’t take much, just a few drops to a teaspoon of BP). Then you pressure pack this mix into the fuse bore with the cardboard tube flipped over and resting on a dowel with a nail with the tip clipped off flush as a packing ram. Use a rubber mallet to tap on the nail. You completely pack the fuse bore hole solid with the BP putty to form a continuous hard rod of BP when it dries that completely seals the base and will burn from one end to the other like the packing in the base of a tracer bullet and is nearly as hard and as strong as the ceramic surrounding it. This hard pack bore fuse needs to completely dry before proceeding to the next step.

4. ~ Next you put in your main charge for the popper (fine grain BP or very fast burning smokeless powder such as BullsEye or IMR-TB) and seal it over with a hard card and non-water based glue such as super glue. You cannot put in the ceramic putty cap directly over the popper powder charge since it needs to remain loose and completely dry.

5. ~ Finish capping off the top of the popper with the same ceramic mix used to form the base with the fusing hole.

6. ~ Cut the plastic gas seal part of the bottom of a conventional plastic wad such as a WAA12 wad and cut or drill a hole in it to expose the popper fuse to the main charge and then glue it to the base of the popper using a strong reliable glue such as Gorilla Glue, Super Glue, or even better yet some of that high quality thick gelled CA glue that the boys with the flying model airplanes use.

7. ~ Load the popper in a shotgun shell using a light charge of a fast burning powder such a BullsEye or Red Dot as the launching charge. Basically you have made a shotgun shell that is built just like a “firework” mortar shell. The big fire-works that they use in professional aerial displays only it is smaller and we used a round tube rather then a sphere since we aren’t concerned with the dispersion pattern and we just want it to make noise.

Safety ~ Avoid any metal to metal contact when working with BP !!! Hit the metal nail with the snipped off end with a rubber or wood mallet, do not hit a steel nail with a steel hammer when working with BP !!! If you wish to make a more professional tool then just a wood dowel with a hole drilled in it for packing the ceramic base in the second step and make that out of metal you should use aluminum or brass. You would be advised to not use steel and if you do don’t hit it with a steel hammer !!! Metal on metal is bad; steel on steel is even worse. Only work with small quantities of BP at a time and do not wear high static danger clothing such as sweaters.

[secondshooter]

Thankyou Turbo1889, thats an excellent description and pictures, i will set about gathering all the ingredients and try making some, im a little worried about one going off in the bore so i will make some test versions to light and time outside the gun. cheers tim

[trooperdan]

Excellent description and graphic Turbo! Only comment I would make is you might try reversing the shell in the case so the fuse is forward. I think you'll find there is plenty enough blow-by to ignite a black powder fuse and it would help prevent prematures in the bore!

[turbo1889]

Thankyou Turbo1889, thats an excellent description and pictures, i will set about gathering all the ingredients and try making some, im a little worried about one going off in the bore so i will make some test versions to light and time outside the gun. cheers tim

Go cheapo to begin with and get them to perform for you to your liking before you go mass production and put some money into good materials and tooling that will let you make them faster in quantity. A long handled "weed burner" propane torch would be the preferred method of ignition for your tests. Closest your going to come to the intensity of heat that is going to ignite to fuse in the barrel and puts you at least three feet (length of the rod on my weed burner) from the test subject.


Excellent description and graphic Turbo! Only comment I would make is you might try reversing the shell in the case so the fuse is forward. I think you'll find there is plenty enough blow-by to ignite a black powder fuse and it would help prevent prematures in the bore!

Never tried it that way, so I can't say whether it would work or not. Worst that could happen is that it wouldn't work and it wouldn't ignite and then you could just go back to doing them mortar style, fuse down which has worked on both home built fireworks and various concoctions I've come up with for launching out of shotgun shells. Not all of which I'm willing to discuss on a public forum board.

[Three44s]

Very good job Turbo!

I like the usage of BP in your recipe!

It was my understanding that this is what was in commerical and many homemade bird bombs and I think it makes BP look sublime:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_powder

BP is no creme puff but Flash is more unpredictable!!!


Three 44s

[colonelhogan44]

Yep, most bird scaring ammo uses flash powder. Black powder needs a harder canister to make a bang.

If you can get the components, use that.

[turbo1889]

I am familiar with several recipes for flash powder. There is a reason I suggested the use of BP and not flash powder. Read the Wiki link previously posted with an open mind tilted towards safety and you will begin to understand my reasoning. If I wanted to try to add more “smack” to these I would probably try a more stable high energy powdered metal additive (such as aluminum powder) to the BP bang charge with additional oxidizer added long before I got anywhere near most of the highly unstable flash powders. Especially the potassium and magnesium based stuff.

[oldoak2000]

Some fast powder an over powder wad and then fill with 6mm soft air gun pellets before finishing with another wad.

DON'T do this; It doesn't work; don't ask me how I know . . . . . .:bigsmyl2:


If you INSIST on trying, you'll need to 'buffer' the air-soft pellets with something (maybe cornmeal?), otherwise you'll spend the rest of the day picking bits of air-soft-pellets out of your gun . . . . . :groner:


.

[turbo1889]

If you are going to build loads using plastic air-soft pellets then using a steel shot wad with all the pellets inside it works best.