Do you really trust your scale?

[Trey45]

Just out of curiousity, how often do you guys calibrate and verify zero on your scales? Do you have a set of calibration weights that you also use to verify known weight?

The only reason I ask is, my neighbor dropped my scale and I've not really trusted it until I compared weights with another scale and they came up exact.

[ph4570]

I have and use a set of Lyman weights to check my RCBS beam scale and a cheap electronic scale. I do the check a couple of times a month and anytime I move the beam scale after recalling it to zero. I use the beam scale for powder and check it against the electronic scale each time I setup a charge. I do this as a gross check to make sure I did not set the beam scale to the wrong weight.

I have come to only use the electronic scale for boolits and loaded cartridges.

[ColColt]

If I dropped a scale I would consign it to the box it came in. Something as sensitive about measurements as a scale well, I just couldn't trust it after a fall-especially on concrete. A carpeted floor might be another thing, however.

I do have a set of RCBS check weights and periodically use them. I have an old and very reliable Ohaus DU-O-Measure and still check it with the weights and a Lyman M5 I bought long ago as well. I have a little electronic scale by Frankfurt Arsenal that at times I use to check with also. It's more handy checking bullet weight since you get an answer quickly without having to move sliders up and down the scale. It doesn't hurt to cross check them all.

[azshtr]

I have a set of Lyman and Cabela's scale weights which seem to be extremely close.

I do use them to check both my Lee and Redding Scale's. I really don't check them as often as perhaps I should but they never seem to be out of adjustment.

[mold maker]

Do you really think your scales were delivered on a down pillow? Have you ever got a UPS/FedEx/USPS delivery with square corners and rigid sides?????
I'll bet there were no bumps in the road between the maker and user.
I have always found scales, especially electronic ones to either work or not. It pays to be cautious, but not paranoid.
Just check them often, for your own peace of mind.

[BMWrider]

I have an electronic RCBS scale and I leave it powered up all the time. I just take the powder pan off and if it reads 150.9, I'm good to go.

[williamwaco]

I have a handy set of custom made scale weights. Made by me.

You can do the same.

My weights consist of a Hornady .22 cal 53 grain hollow point, a Sierra 75 grain .243 hollow point, a Sierra 150 grain .270 RN. And last but not least, a 5gr and a 10gr made by filing down small pieces of heavy gauge copper wire. I made these many years ago using my scales of the time. It was a Webster balance beam, accurate and repeatable to 1/40th grain. I checked these weights with my friends scales. I have kept them in a small envelope in my small parts cabinet for almost 50 years. I have used them to check many scales, I still use them to check new scales.

I currently use the RCBS digital and for some reason, I have more confidence in it than any scale I have ever owned even though through testing shows it to agree EXACTLY with my Lyman Ohaus balance beam. ( Are they equally accurate? Or are they equally inaccurate? )

An interesting comment on the scales. In those days, the magnetic dampers had not made their appearance. The scales of that day had a small paddle attached to the beam directly below the fulcrum. The paddle hung down into a small reservoir or some times a glass jar of very thin oil. You adjusted the amount of dampening by adding or subtracting oil.

I don't know, or care, what the exact weight of these weights is. I know they are very close to the weights I have recorded for them. within no more than 1 or 2 tenths of a grain. That is close enough for even a Bulls eye pistol load.

[Trey45]

Do you really think your scales were delivered on a down pillow? Have you ever got a UPS/FedEx/USPS delivery with square corners and rigid sides?????
I'll bet there were no bumps in the road between the maker and user.
I have always found scales, especially electronic ones to either work or not. It pays to be cautious, but not paranoid.
Just check them often, for your own peace of mind.

When they were being shipped from the factory to where ever they went, they were packed in a styrofoam box too, there's a bit of difference between getting dropped bare naked on a hard surface, and getting dropped in a shipping box surrounded by styrofoam, don't you think? The whole idea of this question was to find out what OTHERS do for their peace of mind to calibrate and verify zero, my method didn't need critiquing, but thanks anyhow.

[onondaga]

I check stuff for peace of mind. My RCBS balance scale is old enough to have children that could vote. It has been dropped hard several times. I check the balance pivot for sharpness and nicks and have refinished it several times with a hard Arkansas stone.. The pivot groove it rests in gets a good look see with a magnifier and I have scraped a carbide scribe in the groove to sharpen up the groove a few times.

Nobody has ever moved the scale lines scribed on the beam. It is a teeter tauter and nobody has lengthened or shortened the teeter tauter. It has an adjustment nut on one end so I could change the balance to zero it if somebody cut it with a file or something. That has never been adjusted over the decades.

I trust that if my table is level enough that I can adjust the level screw on the scale base to get the scale to read zero and the scale is clean that zero is zero and the scale is fine.

I keep a penny, a nickel and a dime in the same envelope that has been with the scale since I got it and marked the weight of the coins on the envelope. The weight of the coins has never changed in the envelope or on the scale after leveling and I trust them too.

I keep the scale covered when not in use, but I have occasionally dusted or brushed or air blasted it if it has gotten dusty. I actually washed it once and put Armor All on the enameled base to make it look nicer a few years ago!

This gives me peace of mind!!!!!

Gary

[mooman76]

I made my own check weights too out of some brass. I just wrote on them with a marker so I would know and checked them on a balance beam. I check every sesson I use my scale and recalibrate if they are off by more than .02 grain.

[cajun shooter]

If a person reloads ammo and uses any type of scale with out taking time to verify if it is correct is a person headed for serious problems one day.

[Recluse]

If a person reloads ammo and uses any type of scale with out taking time to verify if it is correct is a person headed for serious problems one day.

Exactly.

I'm between "paranoid" and "peace of mind" when it comes to verifying the scales. I have three scales on my bench--Lee Safety Scale and a couple of RCBS scales. I use the Lee as the "calibrator" but verify all three with an Ohaus weight set.

The Lee continues to be the most accurate, but it is also the most finicky and difficult to use. It's primary role is as the "confirmation" scale to check one of the others when I'm developing new loads or working up loads.

:coffee:

[Russ in WY]

Well I don't know , I guess it could be serious at some point .. I had friend in from out of stae & things weren't going good for him . So when we got back to my place we pulled a few loads & he was of a grain or more as I recall Russ.

[Southern Son]

I have a Dillon D-Terminator. I will always let it warm up. I then get a jacketed bullet and weigh it (usually a 405grain .458, and I try and find one that weighs 405.0) . I then start weghing powder. After I weigh my charge, I replace the empty pan. If the number don't go back to zero, then the last charge goes back into the thrower. I then let the scale settle and I hit zero before weighing the bullet again. If everything checks out, I go on weighing powder. Having said all that, the only time the Dillon is not consistant is if I don't let it have 30 minutes to warm up. I said consistant because I don't know that my scale is showing the ACTUAL weight of what is in the pan (without a certified weight I won't know), but I am happy if it is fairly close (hence the 405grain bullet). I do want it to show that weight weighs exactly the same everytime I put it on the scale, that will let me load consistant charges without any wild ones.

[zuke]

I have a LEE scale.
If I dropped it the arm would break, thus telling me it's outa wack :p
That's one of the design feature's of it.

[buyobuyo]

I check my 505 every time I use it just for my own piece of mind. Generally, it doesn't require any adjustment.

I had an older Lyman D50 I picked up from a member here. I ended up throwing away because I didn't trust it.

[adrians]

this thread is going to me go and check my 505, thanks for the reminder guys,.:evil:[smilie=p::twisted:

[1bluehorse]

I have two RCBS electronic scales and a Lyman beam scale. I also have two sets of check weights. Which ever one I'm using at the time gets checked and calibrated. It takes about 30 seconds so it just makes good sense to me.

[1hole]

For powder, I use my 46+ year old beam scale. It came with a single 260.9 gr. "check weight" and I test it about once a year, if it needs it or not. The scale is still as dead on accurate and sensitive as it was when new and it's ready to double it; no electronic anything will match that!

Given that beams work off gravity, and that never changes, if the beam is properly zeroed it will maintain the accuracy made in the notches on the beam forever, no "calibration" is needed or even possible. If the beam IS damaged by dropping, etc, we can see it. Not so with flaky digitials; unless it's massive, a lot of internal damage won't be visible.

[AZ-JIM]

I don't think I would ever let anyone borrow my equipment, BUT you are more than welcome to come over and use it. That being said, since I have not dropped my scale, and my table is level, zero is zero and as long as I load the charges that work it should always repeat. Wether 10g is actually 10g or not theoreticaly only matters if I reload then on someone else's equipment. I'm not saying that the equipment shouldn't be checked but it works the way it is so I use it.

az-jim

[Huntducks]

I have a RCBS 10-10 and one of the plug in models and use a 50gr Nosler BT and a 130gr Partition as my check weights every time I load I zero out the 10-10 and use the elec one for checking anything but powder except some light loads.

[bxchef29]

just started reloading but have a frankford arsenal scale ,pretty cheap but decently accurate, i think a tenth of a gram does make a huge difference as far as saftey i try to stay a tenth or two away from the max, i also have a lee scale but been too lazy to set it up lol , will do so soon though

[btroj]

I use an old Lyman. I prefer it to the RCBS I have because it seems more sensitive to powder being trickled into the pan.
As for wether or not I trust my scale, if o did not trust it I would not use it. Loading ammo is too important to use equipment I don't trust, particularly something as critical as a scale.
That said, can I guarantee it is accurate to .1 grains? No. What I want is consistency of measure. I want to know that 24.0gr today will be 24.0gr is a month or a year.

[DCM]

I check my balance beam periodically for zero and with various check weights, it is extremely reliable.
I check my digital EVERY time I want any kind of accuracy, doing so has given me FAR GREATER FAITH in the balance beam!
I learned way back in my chemistry classes the difference between weight and mass.
I will go with mass on a balance beam for repeatability any day before weight on a scale!
I like the scale for its' speed and I use it for sorting brass, checking loaded ammo weights or the odd bullet that got loose somehow, but I do not trust it for dead nuts accuracy period and most likely never will as it fluctuates constantly with the weather, electric sags, swells, surges, breathing on it, lunar phase etc etc. .
Yes it is top name brand not a cheapo, but nothing like old faithful though.
Let the flames begin!

[canyon-ghost]

One of the first precautions I take is closing off the heat and air conditioning in the room, I watch the temperature and humidity changes. Also reset to zero every 20 rounds or so. Large variances in the scale are mostly caused by these two things, the smaller ones aren't all that bad.

We use an electric razor brush to clean the beams. RCBS 502

Ron

[btroj]

No flames from me DCM. I have a 10 plus year old RCBS electronic I almost never use. It wanders more than a stray dog. I have zero faith in it . Might be ok for weighing brass or something but I don't ever use it for powder.

Electronics are better. Today than they were when I got this thing but the darn things are still too flakey. Like you said- weather, electricity issues, air currents, too many things bother them.

A balance beam is like an old friend. Treat it well and it is always there for you. The electric scales are like a wife, they work but they are overly sensitive. Everything sets them off. Which do YOU prefer to shoot with?

[bxchef29]

yeah i did notice my ceiling fan messing with my scale

[ColColt]

A balance beam is like an old friend. Treat it well and it is always there for you. The electric scales are like a wife, they work but they are overly sensitive. Everything sets them off. Which do YOU prefer to shoot with?

I like this. I had one of those. Every time the football team went into a huddle she'd leave the room thinking they were talking about her!!:)

[Harter66]

I've a 1960? Lyman/Ohause M3 . It came w/a marked weight to extend it from 505gn to1005gn. That wt is marked 264.4gn except once due to dust contamination its scaled out dead on. I dust mine out quartly and weigh check it when in doubt or before and after the dusting,I zero every time . We've had like 500 earthquakes in 2 months the bench is never where I left it,sometimes by .3-.4.

[Mk42gunner]

I read an article in a magazine several years ago about someone comparing scales used by most of the bigname gunwriters of the day. It seems the scales used varied by two to three grains on a sixty grain weight.

Since I was reloading at two or three friends houses (I lived in the barracks at the time), I bought a set of RCBS check weights for my own piece of mind. I still use them when I set up my Lyman M5.

Too many years working with ordnance to take a preventable chance, I guess.

Robert

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Do some research here and elsewhere. It shows that most electronic scales commonly used be reloaders have neither the accuracy or the repeatibility of commonly used balance beam scales. The tolerances are greater. You know what that means.

BvT

[mstarling]

I have a Ph.D. in Analytical Chemistry. Balances have always been of interest to folks like me.

I have an OLD Lyman 1200 electronic balance that has been in use more than 10 years.

Is usually left powered. If it has not been powered, I let it warm up 30 minutes. It is then zero'd and the calibration checked with several bullets of known weight that are kept for the purpose.

I measure a charge into the pan, trickle it to the desired weight, move the charge to a case, and put the pan back on the balance and check zero again. Every 20-25 charges I check with the known weights again.

The most common source of variance is air flow around the balance. These things are sensitive enough to weigh air or to be disturbed by air flow.

After checking them against high dollar Mettler and Christian Becker electronic analytical balances, I come to the conclusion that the cheap beam balances are not anywhere near as consistent over time as an electronic balance properly used.

[gnoahhh]

Yep, I'll put my faith in gravity and a simple balance beam before trusting an electronic gizmo. I have access to an insanely accurate scale here in the labs that I used to verify my home made check weights. If ever I get whacky readings on my scale when using them I'll then investigate the trunnions and/or look for dirt where it shouldn't be. So far, so good. Thankfully my scale jives with the lab scale.

I've been using this scale for a loooong time. All of my load development for all of my guns was done with that one scale (RCBS 10-10) and even if it weren't in sync with the lab scale I nonetheless have a standard to go by within my own little world. Because of the potential lack of synchronization with other people's scales I'm forever reluctant to publicly share or recommend loads that are anything but mild by anyone's standards. My conscience won't allow it.

[Cranium]

I started out with two digital, battery operated scales:
MTM Digital Reloading Scale (± .2 gr accuracy)
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/medium/785/785229.jpg
Frankford Arsenal Reloading Scale (± .1 gr accuracy)
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41mGKommxkL._SL500_AA280_.jpg
Both of these have calibration weights included. They were cheap and I was able to use them to compare against each other. They were both always within .1 gr if each other and both had a little bit of drift as they warmed up. Because they were battery operated, they automatically shut off after a couple of minutes so I'd have to keep turning them on and then weigh on both for my results that could be relied upon. They both were fairly slow in their readouts as well (time to display the weight after the load was placed on the scale). I didn't really realize this until I got my next scale.

The next scale I bought was the Hornady Lock-N-Load Auto Charge Powder Dispenser (± .1 gr accuracy). I wanted to be able to work up a load and have exact measurements of powder go in each case. My Hornady LNL powder dispenser does very well but I cannot confirm every case has the exact amount in it as I can with this dispenser. This scale is very quick to display a reading and comes with 2 calibrating weights. Before every use, I let it warm up for a while (>15 minutes) then calibrate it. This calibration check process consists of zeroing out the scale, then placing the smaller weight on it, then placing the larger weight on it. This method allows for checking the scale over the range of operation rather than just a set weight.
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/medium/818/818489.jpg

Overall I've been very happy with the Hornady scale. The other two scales are now just gathering dust on a shelf.

[Char-Gar]

Yes, I trust my scales, but I also "trust and verify".

[doulos]

I zero my Dillon balance beam evry time i use it. I also calibrate my RCBS electronic cale every time and have noticed its not holding its calibration very well any more. Well its 12 years old and has been involved in 3 house moves 2 accross country. Guess I got my money's worth.

[Hip's Ax]

I have various scales both digital and beam but always wind up using my RCBS 5-10 scale for powder. I always set it up using my Lyman check weights, every time.

My Dillion digital, my RCBS Charge Master and my RCBS 10-10 just sit for the most part. The only other thing I have that I use regularly is my old orange Lyman Auto Scale. Because it has a beam scale in it i trust it, I also set it up with my check weights.

[shagg]

I have a lee balance scale as well as a frankford arsenal digital scale. Checking balance scale accuracy with any digital scale with only 1 decimal place is a waste of time. The reason is 1 decimal place on my frankford digital is very close to 4 granules of 4064 powder. 4 granules makes a very noticeable difference on the balance scale. I use the digital for weighing cast bullets and the beam for rifle loads. I tend to use a measure for pistol stuff and check it on the balance scale periodically.
As far as testing the balanc scale, im with the zero it and if it works, use it crowd.

just my .02
Ron

[RugerSP101]

Just out of curiousity, how often do you guys calibrate and verify zero on your scales? Do you have a set of calibration weights that you also use to verify known weight?

The only reason I ask is, my neighbor dropped my scale and I've not really trusted it until I compared weights with another scale and they came up exact.
I worked in offset printing for many years and had to mix most of my own ink with pretty expensive triple beam scales.
I dont trust any scale after seeing what Ive seen over the years.
Even the slightest amount of dust can seriously affect the accuracy of some scales.
The only way Id trust a scale with my eyes and hands is to have two scales of two different make/models and weigh a charge on both and see if its the same.

I guess all that is why I now use one powder (Unique), one bullet (my cast 158 gr LRN) and one Lee powder dipper and so one recipe that is well below maximum loads and never 'tinker'.
But then, I really just reload to save money...not to experiment.

edit
I'd like to add that the powder assembly for reloading presses all (that Ive seen online) seem to be based on powder volume (like the dippers), not weight...so in my mind its obviously 'ok' to use a volume type measure as long as one isnt loading over about 90% of the maximum charge. If I were doing maximum loads Id certainly buy TWO scales of differing brands and check my charges on both.
Just my opinion.
:)