Siamese Mauser

[rocklock]

Howdy.

Just wondering if anyone has done any work with the 8x52R Siamese Mauser.

[45 2.1]

Had one with a messed up crown/bore a few years ago. Cases were formed from 4570 with a RCBS form die set and loaded. Everything worked fine with cast except for the barrel end which was racked up for about 1 1/2" down the bore. Good rifles if you can get a clean one.

[Buckshot]

............Not much help, but the only 2 I've ever seen had been converted to 45-70 :-). I think I may have an article on them in my wondrous filing system.
I take it you have an original?

..............Buckshot

[rocklock]

............Not much help, but the only 2 I've ever seen had been converted to 45-70 :-). I think I may have an article on them in my wondrous filing system.
I take it you have an original?

..............Buckshot

Yessir...a Type 45 with a beautiful bore. All original, 'ceptin no cleaning rod.

[shooter575]

Years ago I up a siamese barreled action. Barrel was junk but I figured I would make a 45/70 out of her. Then couple years ago I found at my local gun show a compleat siamese minus the action with a good bore. Figure I will put em togther.The latter one has the un altered sight so I think it is the first cartridge.Forget which is which. Maybe I should dig this project back out the pile. I did find a pile of metal parts for the siamese.Had a bolt cover that I was missing in it so I bought it. Gee I must have 45 bucks tied up in this thing.

[JCherry]

Rocklock,

I saw your post on the Siamese Mauser some time back but am just now getting around to it. Sorry to take so long.

I have a Siamese Mauser which is in excellant shape, with dust cover but also no cleaning rod. The bore on mine is pristine but measures out to .327.

I can not say that I have had great success with this caliber yet. I have tried 45-70 brass but it is a pain as the rim needs to be turned down and the neck also needs thinning. I don't have any of the proper tools for these operations.

I have also tried 8X56R Hungarian brass, The rim did not need to be turned down but the necks are still a bit thick.

I am currently in the process of trying some Russian 7.62X54R brass. It seems this may be easier as the rim is right and the neck is not too thick. The only problem is the base diameter is a bit on the small side (about .490 diameter) but I'm using a piece of tape around the base diameter for the first firing.

For bullets I've used the Lee 324-175-1R Beagled to .329 diameter.

I have cast some of the Custom 8MM Max Lee mold (250 Gr) Beagled out to .328 but have not yet tried them yet.

I have not yet tried the new Lee mold (329-205-1R) for the 8X56R Hungarian which may be a good candidate for my rifle.

My bore being .327 seems to be my biggest problem so far because of the thick brass necks of the 45-70 and the 8x56R brass. The requirement for a larger diameter bullet aggravate the thick neck problems. I don't think this problem would be so bad if my bore diameter was smaller. Hopefully the 7.62x54R brass will take care of this problem.

I have seen conflicting information on the actual dimensions of this cartridge. I have a set of 4D dies which work but the shoulder is very small in diameter compaired to the actual chamber of my rifle. I obtained a 4D bushing neck sizer which seems to work pretty well.

What have you been able to do with loads for your rifle. If your bore is smaller (.321-.327?) you may not have problems with thick necks on your brass.

Also please be aware that this talk of Siamese may cause Carpetman to think about cats and he may go off the deep end.

To aggravate the situation I'll also mention that I also have a Persian Mauser to complete my collection of "Cat Mausers". I'll use my Persian Mauser to blast the Persian cats and the Siamese Mauser to take care of those cross eyed cats. Those 250 gr 8MM MAX bullets in either rifle should take care of most any cat I encounter and earn Carpetmans approval.

Have Fun,

JCherry

[Wayne Smith]

JC, you can alter those 7.62x54 cases easily with the right thickness/diameter brass tubing. Try Small Parts, and cut a piece just enough to cover the webbing of the cartridge. Solder it on. The case wall will expand as necessary in front of it when you fire.

[fiberoptik]

How about paper patched?? :|

[rocklock]

Well, I have two now, one in 8x50R and one in 8x52R.

Brass for the 8x50R is no problem. Measuring 2 original rounds, the 8x50R Siamese seems to be dimentionally identical to 8x50R Austrian which I'm already set up for.

I've tried 2 ways for the 8x52R so far...7.62x54R and 8x56R. I don't like the bulge in the fired x54 brass so I might try Wayne Smith's tubing idea.

The 8x56R seems OK so far, but the largest bullets I've used have been .324".
Accuracy is OK, but I think it can do better. (I confess, I haven't slugged either bore)

[JCherry]

I fired several rounds today made from 7.62X54R and they seemed to work just fine. The bulge in front of the web was not too bad as I used some masking tape over that area. The load was not very stout though it was heavy enough that I could see the edges of the tape imprinted in the brass.

Wayne Smith - The brass tubing method you mentioned sounds interesting but the brass tubing available seems to be much too thick. The difference in the diameter of the two shells at the web is only around .010" to .013". The tubing available from "Small Parts" in 1/2" diameter has a wall thickness of .065". It would seem that tubing for this application would need to have a wall thickness of only .005" or .006". Have I misunderstood something?

Rocklock - I've seen reference somewhere that bore diameters of these Siamese rifles can run from .321" to as much as .328". Yours may have a tight bore.

I have slugged my bore and the throat of my rifle and since the bore is at .327 I want to stay with a .328 bullet.

One alternatetive I have not yet tried is to size the bullet to .325 and use some sort of fine filler cream of wheat or bran above the powder. The smaller bullet diameter would mitigate the tight neck problem and the filler, hopefully, preclude blowby. I would do this using WC-860 powder which would mostly fill the case anyway.

I'll keep messing with this.

Have Fun,

JCherry

[Haywire Haywood]

How about the aluminum tape that HVAC guys use to seal up ductwork? Should be more durable than masking and more uniform as well.

Ian