Nasty, nasty gun from the bench

[44man]

I shot a new Bisley Hunter from bags yesterday, just a .44! Now it was OK from Creedmore but from bags the thing pounded my hand until the back of my hand hurt.
Most unpleasant gun I ever shot. The bang to the palm is just too much. Even the base of my thumb hurts.
Now I shoot thousands of shots from bags and my .44 or .475 can be shot all day. This Bisley thing needs rested different then I have been doing or it will ruin a guy.
I am going to have to rest the frame and float the grip and that is going to put wobble in the hold.
You can be sure I will never rest a larger caliber Bisley! [smilie=b:
I just do not see the glamour for heavy recoil, it is just not there.
Shooting revolvers over 56 years has never hurt me and recoil never bothered me but I can see where this thing can damage a guy. I had a Bisley of my own for a short while but never rested it and still did not like it so I sold it.
Seems to me it was designed for one hand shooting with light target loads so the barrel angle was better.

[ole 5 hole group]

It's not the "Bisley thing" Jim, it's your age that is causing the pain.

Remember this Jim: "pain is only weakness leaving your body" and as you pass 70yoa you just get weaker, so quit bitchin and enjoy the pain - sure beats the alternative.:-D

[44MAG#1]

There are, I am almost positively sure due too being almost impossible to satisfy no matter what, people that would find something to complain about if they were in Heaven.
No grip angle, material, caliber, bullet, alloy, sights, brand of gun, brand of brass, power of scope, brand of scope or anything else anyone could name is going to completely satisfy everyone.
This is not anything new, I would assume, since the Garden of Eden and the creation of the human race.

[44man]

Laugh at my age will you? Take that! :2gunsfiring_v1:
Well I just ran a bunch of 500 gr Hornady loads through a S&W, .500. Not the big heavy one with scope mounts, just a normal barrel like a .29, 6-1/2".
Rather pleasant, no pain and deadly accurate even with open sights.
Front sight needs to be higher so we had to aim very low.
I would not shoot Whitworth's Bisley from the bench even after mounting an Ultra Dot.
Nope, you fellas that like them can have all they make!
One other I will never shoot and that is his .50 Alaskan with Bisley grips.

[subsonic]

Must be a hand shape/grip thing. I would shoot 1000rds of 335gr @ 1200fps through my .45 Colt Accu-Sport Bisley before I would shoot 100 "keith loads" through my 629. A friend has a .44 Bisley Hunter he's trying to sell that I have almost bought several times. It shoots awesome offhand for me and kicks less than some .357s... All I can say is that, like shoes, some shapes fit some people better. I have wide palms with shortish fingers.:2gunsfiring_v1:

[white eagle]

I shoot heavy loaded 45 colt loads from bags and bench all day
no sweat !!
ya gotta grip em rite
I got no problems with it
of course being a mason I have stronger hands and grip than most
way mo comfort than any of the handguns I have shot
next to the SBH
I find the Bisley to be very comfortable and manageable
darn sexy to boot

[GL49]

I've got to agree with subsonic. My FA 454 doesn't bother me when I shoot it with hot loads, but shoot the same ones in my buddy's Ruger SRH, ouch! they hurt. And my model 29 mountain gun with a 4" barrel, Hogue grips, in 44 magnum seems to be the most comfortable of all my 44's, but a TC Contender only requires one shot and I am ready to give it back to the owner. Just doesn't work for me. I've always wanted a Bisley grip on a revolver, now I think I'd better try before I buy.

[M4bushy]

I've got to agree with subsonic. My FA 454 doesn't bother me when I shoot it with hot loads, but shoot the same ones in my buddy's Ruger SRH, ouch! they hurt. And my model 29 mountain gun with a 4" barrel, Hogue grips, in 44 magnum seems to be the most comfortable of all my 44's, but a TC Contender only requires one shot and I am ready to give it back to the owner. Just doesn't work for me. I've always wanted a Bisley grip on a revolver, now I think I'd better try before I buy.

There is something about a SRH. I shot 20 rounds of hornady 325grXTP factory loads from my .480 ruger with the standard grip. That was the most unpleasant shooting gun I've ever shot. The palm of my hand wasn't right for two weeks! It is much more shooter friendly with the hogue tamer grip i installed. My buddy's 500 s&w magnum is a dream to shoot compared to my ruger.

[9.3X62AL]

Ah, the subjective elements come into play. I prefer the Bisley grip to the usual SAA plowhandle, but that's my own prejudice/preference/whatever. VERY FEW double-action revolvers in my safe wear stock/factory grips, and a lot of the bottom-feeders are adorned with some sort of neoprene panels as well. Some of that had to do with the successful retention of my sideiron when a drunk made a lunge for it years ago (he lost, decisively), but they also shoot better for me--I have big ol' paws.

[44man]

I have shot the Freedom .475 many times from the bench but they had rubber grips.
This Ruger Bisley has those micarta panels or whatever they are made from. Pretty--Yes, painful--Yes again.
They didn't hurt my palm but the force went to the back of my hand.

[riorider]

My dad rechamberd a Lone Eagle 35 Rem to 350 Rem Mag and put an ak 47 muzzle brake on it and it still hurts!

[wellfedirishman]

That is interesting. My first 44 Mag was a Ruger Bisley Super Blackhawk, and I love it with hot loads. I actually prefer it to the standard Super Blackhawk grip frame.

I guess it is a personal preference/fit thing.

[sixshot]

I'm guessing that 44 man might be blowing a little smoke here, just guessing.

Dick

[Lloyd Smale]

personaly i think theres nothing that even comes close to a bisley in handling recoil other then a FA WITHOUT those HORRID rubber grips. I detest any rubber grip on a hard kicking handgun as they abrade the heck out of your hands. To me about the worse is a smith n frame or a redhawk. Those two grip frames will make me blead with heavy loads. Personaly id rather shoot 200 full horse 500 linebaugh loads out of my 4 inch bisley then 50 300 grain 44 mags out of a redhawk or n frame. I forgot one more i detest thats the dragoon super blackhawks. Ive got a permanently swelled middle nuckle from shooting them when i was young. If you really want to see the differnce in how a bisley works come visit. Ive got a lightweight 45 colt blackhawk 4 inch gun clements did for me. its got a standard blackhawk frame and shooting 320s at 1250 out of it will get on you alot more then 450s at that speed out of my 500. Ive had many other people shoot both and say the same thing so it isnt just me. I guess we differ too in that the bisley is the easiest gun for me to shoot of a bench by far. The most miseable revolver i ever shot was kelly brosts 4 inch 500 linebaugh he had built with a blackhawk grip frame. He had it at one seminar and he was the ONLY one that shot it that didnt hand it back before they shot all 5 shots. I even handed it back to to be fair to myself id just gotten my nuckle operated on again from shooting those supers and just breathing on it hurt. 3 shots and i had enough. Ill go this way though. I really dont see that a guy needs a bisely frame on a 44 mag or 45 colt unless its an extreamly light gun like mine but when you step up to 475s and 500s there about a nessesity. to the point that most custom gunmakers wont even make one unless its a bisley.

[ElDorado]

There is something about a SRH. I shot 20 rounds of hornady 325grXTP factory loads from my .480 ruger with the standard grip. That was the most unpleasant shooting gun I've ever shot. The palm of my hand wasn't right for two weeks! It is much more shooter friendly with the hogue tamer grip i installed. My buddy's 500 s&w magnum is a dream to shoot compared to my ruger.

I agree with you on that. My SRH 454 came with the old wood and rubber grips, and it was a killer to shoot. I changed to a set of Pachmyr Decelerator grips and they aren’t much better. I see that Ruger now ships the SRH with Hogue Tamer grips like you have. Maybe I’ll give that a try on this knuckle-buster.

[Whitworth]

I agree with you on that. My SRH 454 came with the old wood and rubber grips, and it was a killer to shoot. I changed to a set of Pachmyr Decelerator grips and they aren’t much better. I see that Ruger now ships the SRH with Hogue Tamer grips like you have. Maybe I’ll give that a try on this knuckle-buster.


I have two custom 5-shots built on SRH frames, one in .475 Linebaugh and the other in .500 Linebaugh, and the Hogue Tamers do a great job at making them tolerable to shoot -- well, sort of tolerable in the case of the .500......

[Whitworth]

My .50 Alaskan has a Bisley grip frame, and I believe that it would be unshootable if it had a plow handle grip frame on it. But that's just me.

[Groo]

Groo here
44man I Suspect that you are experienced with the standard plow handle and the
roll that the gun takes when fired.. You have learned to give with it and ride the kick..
The bisley is a target grip in that it is more like a da s&w or colt grip that a BH grip.
This will cause more of the kick to be transmitted into the hand and arm rather
than used to role the gun.
I also think that you use a heaver grip than most to control this..
a light grip can be used on the bisley and it will tend to roll less than a plow handle..
I have cut myself on the lumps of a plow handle 44mag with heaver loads and would not shoot
any FA 454 cal or bigger without porting to control the roll, but I have 2# 475L 's
one with a 5 1/2 in and one with a 4 in that are bisley's and are much easier to shoot than the FA's

[btroj]

I find the SRH with factory grips to be quite comfortable. I do have smallish hands and wonder if that makes a difference? I find it much more pleasant to shoot then my BH in 45 Colt with heavy loads. That single action grip rolls in my hand enough that it is painful in my wrists.
Recoil is so subjective. We all perceive it very differently.

[Heavy lead]

Smith N frames, the Super Redhawk and Redhawk simply beat me. The N frames with a grip cut straight in the back to take the notch out where it hits the web are controllable, the Super I can only shoot with the hogue tamer grip, and I HATE rubber grips. I love the Bisley grip, but only with aftermarket grips that are fat, especially at the top, also I've learned to shoot the SBH and Blackhawk with the fat wood Herrett grips well, I can't deal with any of the Packmayr grips with the rubber over the backstrap, they just grip and tear. I have a firm, maybe too firm a grip. Good very wide smooth wood grips for me.

[spqrzilla]

Bench shooting heavy caliber handguns is almost always uncomfortable.

[Ed K]

I find when I forget where I left my shoes and run out for a few errands wearing my wife's shoes my feet hurt really bad by the time I get home. :)

[sixshot]

For most of us the Bisley is way--way more easy to handle with heavy loads & heavy bullets, but.......thats why they make chocolate & vanilla, so we have a choice. I'll take the Bisley everytime, no way could I should my 45's with heavy bullets & the 5 shot 480 with 370's or 400's....don't even want to think about it. Some of you guys must eat raw meat & gunpowder for breakfast to shoot the loads you mention.

Dick

[GL49]

Lloyd,
When I purchased my first model 29 44 mag I put rubber Pachmayer grips on it. One cylinder full and the stock wooden ones went back on. Those rubber grips HURT!. A few years later, I got a used state police revolver with Hogue grips, wow, what a difference. Now all my N-frame 44's wear Hogues. Maybe it's my hand size or something, but off the bench or offhand, the Hogues don't bite. I agree with you about the super blackhawk, mine will really rap your knuckle if you're not careful. I tried the rubber Hogue grips on it, but didn't like the looks and went back to the stock Ruger grips. Never really thought about it before, but when I look at my hands, that one knuckle is a lot fatter than the rest. Hmmmm.

[subsonic]

I don't have the knuckle problem with the SBH, probably because the distance from my knuckle to the web of my hand is short enough that it can't happen if I have a decent grip. My Contender requires an odd grip....

When I was in high school, I had a pal with 2 SBHs, one stainless and one blued, both 7.5". The blued gun had Pachs on it and the stainless gun had stock grips. These were the first .44 Magnums I ever shot. Shooting both with the same ammo, the stock grips were much easier on the palm of the hand. The pachs left the palm of my hand feeling abraded as the gun rolled in my hand. Nowadays it probably would not roll in my hand - I have a much stronger grip/technique. The stainless gun got chopped to 4 5/8" - and was even easier to shoot! I don't know why it was more comfortable to shoot with the shorter barrel, but it sure was. Stock grips were put on the blued gun and we shot them side-by-side to prove it to ourselves. There's a lot to this perceived recoil thing.

[44man]

I have two custom 5-shots built on SRH frames, one in .475 Linebaugh and the other in .500 Linebaugh, and the Hogue Tamers do a great job at making them tolerable to shoot -- well, sort of tolerable in the case of the .500......
That's true, they have recoil but do not bother me.
Whit has often asked me if I need a glove but I will only if the guard hits my knuckle. Even the SRH with factory grips is OK with me.
Never had rubber abrade my palm with any gun.

[44man]

Groo here
44man I Suspect that you are experienced with the standard plow handle and the
roll that the gun takes when fired.. You have learned to give with it and ride the kick..
The bisley is a target grip in that it is more like a da s&w or colt grip that a BH grip.
This will cause more of the kick to be transmitted into the hand and arm rather
than used to role the gun.
I also think that you use a heaver grip than most to control this..
a light grip can be used on the bisley and it will tend to roll less than a plow handle..
I have cut myself on the lumps of a plow handle 44mag with heaver loads and would not shoot
any FA 454 cal or bigger without porting to control the roll, but I have 2# 475L 's
one with a 5 1/2 in and one with a 4 in that are bisley's and are much easier to shoot than the FA's
True, I have always loved the plow handle but my guns do not "roll". I paid attention to the Bisley barrel rise and it is the same as my SBH. It just punches straight back first.
I can shoot the Bisley OK off hand, no problem. It is just from the bench that it bothers me. I can shoot it Creedmore too.
All the guys have to understand that I said BENCH SHOOTING!
Rubber grips might cure it for me. I seem to do better with a narrower back strap.
I even put Pachmeyer grips on my .45 Vaquero for shooting 335 and 347 gr boolits. I can shoot this one all day and if you want to see recoil, this one has it.

[Groo]

Groo here
44 man I understand the narrow grip thing as I have a bump on the base of my thumb
from shooting magnums and can no longer shoot any S&W factory wood grip , Hogue
or Pacs only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As to bench I had great problems there until I started to shoot sitting up,,,
with the gun at sholder level not leaning over in any way [ jammed a sholder and elbow]
That might help , no pad under butt, gun up, frame on rest but free to move,[like off hand]

[kelbro]

I had a 44Mag Hunter with the plow handle and it was fine. Got a deal on 44Mag Bisley Hunter and it was 'finer'. Shot both for a few weeks and then sold the plow handle. The Bisley Hunter is a pleasure to shoot with the 310 grainers.

[David LaPell]

I remember when I had my Bisley the whole grip angle thing being superior. I found that it controlled the flip a little better but it really wasn't much different than the .41 Magnum blackhawk.

[Frank]

Here's my 5-shot 100-yard group from the bench. It shoots point of aim offhand and Creedmore. The bench is easy for me when load testing, but Creedmore is good too. The taped holes are the 475. It was having some problems. Could be the brass. It is also a new alloy so maybe it just needs a half more of a grain.
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=3917
Was this just a lucky shot, or one group of many? No, it is just my old load that I was touching up. Fine tuning details. [smilie=p: I casted with a new alloy and harder boolit so I needed to find what works. The old sweet spot was 27 grns. So I loaded 5-27, 5-27.5, 5-28 & 5-28.5. The rest failed miserably.

So yes, even with the big boys, a half a grain can ruin a load.

Be open to new ideas and learn something new every day.