cast and loaded my first 10 rounds today for my 40 cal...observations

[champ198]

so tonight i cast and loaded my first rounds for my Glock G23 in .40 cal.
a few things i noticed at first and wanted to get some opinions since im very new to loading semi autos
OAL was very critical if i had them too long they wouldnt go in the mag. to short and they jammed up on the feed ramp...was checking all of this with 4 dummy rounds not live ammo so you all know.
took me a little bit to get a OAL that it liked and would function correctly.
the process i went through is this....please tell me if am doing something wrong in any way as i do know that the 40 is a high pressure round but it is the only handgun i have and i love the gun and cartrige and want to shoot it a lot and casting will save me a ton of $$

these were done using WW lead.

cast bullet using a Lee 2 cavity 175gr #224761, water dropped them, then sized in a Lee .401 sizer die. then tumble lubed with Lee Liquid Alox, let them sit on wax paper overnight.
loading i used Winchester WSF at 5.4 gr with a OAL at 1.130 (if i remember right..cant remember exactly but was right about there).

do any of you all see anying wrong with this setup and prep or load or anything?

any help from you all would be great i know there are some here who have figured the caliber out and would love to hear from you all.
im wanting to shoot cast as much as i can because i am wanting to shoot USPSA and will be burning through a lot of ammo and casting will help a ton.

thanks

[mooman76]

Did you slug your barrel? Glocks can have problems with lead bullets. I had no problems but I shot as cast and also kept my loads down to mid range power wise.

[Ausglock]

G'day.
I load 40S&W with the Lee 401-175-TC over 5.3gr WSF for 177 Power factor out of a G35 with factory barrel.

BAC lube and sized .401 through a Lyman 450.

Barrel stays clean after 300 rounds, no worries

OAL 1.135

[Bwana]

With that bullet I load to an over all length of 1.10". My IPSC load is 3.5gr of TiteGroup with a WSPM primer and R-P cases. It makes about a 135 power factor. Runs through my G23 like grease through a goose. Very accurate.

"please tell me if am doing something wrong in any way as i do know that the 40 is a high pressure round but it is the only handgun i have and i love the gun and cartrige and want to shoot it a lot and casting will save me a ton of $$"

When you handload, you control the "pressure" of the round. It is only "high pressure" if you make it so.

[truckmsl]

1.135" OAL with that boolit works great in my G23 and G35 with either stock barrels or Lone Wolf, although the Lone Wolfs needed the leade area opened up a tad.

If you decide to go with target loads for practice or economy, try Winchester WST powder. 3.7 grains in that set up should give you 850 fps with good accuracy.

[BulletFactory]

Why so low? The Load data chart has WST at 4.5 to 5.1 with a 165 grain round, does not list for a 175, and for a 180 grain round, they list minimum at 3.9 to max at 4.3. The 165 max fps is 995, and the 180 grain max fps is 888.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

[fredj338]

I run that same bullet w/ 5.8gr of WSF, makes just under 1000fps in my 4006, very accurate. A good powder choice for the 40 IMO, far better than TG for anything but bunnyfart loads.

[geargnasher]

The .40 can be tricky for several reasons. First, most of the pistols chambered for it have tight chambers and don't like fat boolits. The barrels usually NEED fat boolits to seal and keep the gas-cutting/leading down. Then there is the Glock Factor. And let's not forget the fact that a full-house .40 load operates at .357 magnum pressure levels, and many folks expect air-cooled wheel weights cast into bevel-based, un-checked boolit designs lubed with a single coat of liquid Alox to shoot straight and not turn the barrel into a sewer pipe in 500 rounds. Good luck with that.

The other big issue is that the .40, being a high-pressure round, has very, very hard brass. To further excacerbate the issue with cast boolits, most if not all die sets will size the cases way too small for cast, and the expanders don't really. Expand that is. They will bell the case mouth just peachy, but truly expanding the brass to the correct size down just a bit past where you want the boolit base to be isn't happening. So the hard, undersized brass ends up swaging the lead boolits down when they are seated, and when they are fired into the barrel they are grossly undersized and the resulting gas leaks cut the boolits, erode the sides, and lay the debris down ahead of the boolit to be ironed on by it's passage, and you have a leaded bore in just a few shots. Slug your bore, load a dummy round, pull the loaded boolit with an inertial puller, and compare the groove dimension to your pulled boolit dimension. If the pulled boolit isn't at least .001" larger than your groove diameter, then you will need a larger expander spud for your die set that will stretch the case enough to hold the boolit securely without crushing it. Most times you will have to have one made.

So, the key to success once you get the mechanics worked out is to balance the load for what you're trying to do, and it matters more with the .40 than with any other handgun caliber I've loaded. For plinkers that barely cycle the action (700 fps range) use fast powders and soft (8-12 bhn) boolits. For medium stuff, like barely making PF loads, use medium powders like Unique and boolits in the 12-16 bhn range. For top end loads, use water-quenched wheel weights, slow powders like HS6, Longshot, Blue Dot, True Blue, or even Power Pistol.

Gear

[Lizard333]

The .40 can be tricky for several reasons. First, most of the pistols chambered for it have tight chambers and don't like fat boolits. The barrels usually NEED fat boolits to seal and keep the gas-cutting/leading down. Then there is the Glock Factor. And let's not forget the fact that a full-house .40 load operates at .357 magnum pressure levels, and many folks expect air-cooled wheel weights cast into bevel-based, un-checked boolit designs lubed with a single coat of liquid Alox to shoot straight and not turn the barrel into a sewer pipe in 500 rounds. Good luck with that.

The other big issue is that the .40, being a high-pressure round, has very, very hard brass. To further excacerbate the issue with cast boolits, most if not all die sets will size the cases way too small for cast, and the expanders don't really. Expand that is. They will bell the case mouth just peachy, but truly expanding the brass to the correct size down just a bit past where you want the boolit base to be isn't happening. So the hard, undersized brass ends up swaging the lead boolits down when they are seated, and when they are fired into the barrel they are grossly undersized and the resulting gas leaks cut the boolits, erode the sides, and lay the debris down ahead of the boolit to be ironed on by it's passage, and you have a leaded bore in just a few shots. Slug your bore, load a dummy round, pull the loaded boolit with an inertial puller, and compare the groove dimension to your pulled boolit dimension. If the pulled boolit isn't at least .001" larger than your groove diameter, then you will need a larger expander spud for your die set that will stretch the case enough to hold the boolit securely without crushing it. Most times you will have to have one made.

So, the key to success once you get the mechanics worked out is to balance the load for what you're trying to do, and it matters more with the .40 than with any other handgun caliber I've loaded. For plinkers that barely cycle the action (700 fps range) use fast powders and soft (8-12 bhn) boolits. For medium stuff, like barely making PF loads, use medium powders like Unique and boolits in the 12-16 bhn range. For top end loads, use water-quenched wheel weights, slow powders like HS6, Longshot, Blue Dot, True Blue, or even Power Pistol.

Gear

And to think I was looking forward to loading up for my Berretta 96...... Looks like when I get my mold on Wednesday, I might have my work cut out for me...... I have never had problems with any of my other pistol loads, but sounds like this one may be a challenge.........Good to know going into I guess. Should be fun.:mrgreen:

[161]

Champ 198
Your doing fine. I shot that same load in USPSA for 10 years out of a G24. If you want to make your life easier go to Midway USA and buy a $10.00 loaded ammo case gauge. Load your rnds. so the fit in the gauge. Check every loaded rnd and it'll tell you when your "Glock Bulge" is about to cause problems. I check every rnd. and when the bulge gets to big I throw the rnd. in a can.
161

[RobS]

The glock barrel can work with cast boolits and boolit fit is very important as it should be with any firearm. Tons of info on the forum, here are a few threads:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=33855&highlight=glock

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=115982&highlight=glock

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=116560&highlight=glock

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=116151&highlight=glock

[geargnasher]

And to think I was looking forward to loading up for my Berretta 96...... Looks like when I get my mold on Wednesday, I might have my work cut out for me...... I have never had problems with any of my other pistol loads, but sounds like this one may be a challenge.........Good to know going into I guess. Should be fun.:mrgreen:

If you have realistic expectations of the challenge, it's tons of fun to load and shoot cast in the .40! I'm certainly not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, in fact quite the opposite, I'm trying to forwarn you so maybe it will save you some frustration. Many people are just like you, having had lots of easy success with other calibers, then they tackle the .40 with the same mindset/methods/ that worked for .45 ACP and get really discouraged when nothing they do seems to work. Just make up your mind where you want to start, and use the right alloy and powders together with the right viscocity lube and loading tools, and it's no problem.

Gear

[Digger]

Plus one on what geargnasher states ..... having to go thru the process with a Keltec .40 and a Ruger P-91 , and the learning curve continues ....
But lucky to be using MIhec's version of the 40 mold boolit , ton's of fun!
digger

[Doby45]

I put about 50 "test" rounds through my brand spankin new G35 this weekend. Not a speck of lead or smear of anything and this was with the factory barrel. I loaded 5 different "test" rounds and with the solid Mihec 401 boolit which comes in at 170gr my best low smoke, POA = POI round was 4gr of Clays. Very nice on the recoil and from a standing Isosoweaver stance I had 2-3" grouping at 25yds.. I will take that ALLLLLLLL day long..


Boolit was water dropped clip-on WW sized to .402, lubed with Carnuba Red and case was expanded with .401 powder through die. Crimp was applied to remove bell and chamber reliably, nothing more.

[RobS]

Several things going on to make it happen.............expander plug (may not be needed with the hard water quenched WW boolit), harder boolit for the factory glock barrel, and a good lube.

[Doby45]

I call it stacking the deck in my favor.

[RobS]

Yes.............and it works well indeed. I do it all the time too!!!

[champ198]

well went to the range last night to try the 10 rounds i had loaded with 5.4 gr of Win WSF.
nothing blew up which was a good thing....the accuracy wasnt very good at all...at 7 yards all 10 shots were about 8"left and high.
but nothing blew up so that was good....going to try a few more changes and see what happens....over all im happy if i can get some decent accuracy ill be ok still a work in progress

shot was very smokey which i assume from reading the forums here is due to the powder burning the lube when the shot is fired...but i can deal with that for now

[BulletFactory]

Keep after it man, you'll get it.

[garym1a2]

The .40 can be tricky for several reasons. First, most of the pistols chambered for it have tight chambers and don't like fat boolits. The barrels usually NEED fat boolits to seal and keep the gas-cutting/leading down. Then there is the Glock Factor. And let's not forget the fact that a full-house .40 load operates at .357 magnum pressure levels, and many folks expect air-cooled wheel weights cast into bevel-based, un-checked boolit designs lubed with a single coat of liquid Alox to shoot straight and not turn the barrel into a sewer pipe in 500 rounds. Good luck with that.

The other big issue is that the .40, being a high-pressure round, has very, very hard brass. To further excacerbate the issue with cast boolits, most if not all die sets will size the cases way too small for cast, and the expanders don't really. Expand that is. They will bell the case mouth just peachy, but truly expanding the brass to the correct size down just a bit past where you want the boolit base to be isn't happening. So the hard, undersized brass ends up swaging the lead boolits down when they are seated, and when they are fired into the barrel they are grossly undersized and the resulting gas leaks cut the boolits, erode the sides, and lay the debris down ahead of the boolit to be ironed on by it's passage, and you have a leaded bore in just a few shots. Slug your bore, load a dummy round, pull the loaded boolit with an inertial puller, and compare the groove dimension to your pulled boolit dimension. If the pulled boolit isn't at least .001" larger than your groove diameter, then you will need a larger expander spud for your die set that will stretch the case enough to hold the boolit securely without crushing it. Most times you will have to have one made.

So, the key to success once you get the mechanics worked out is to balance the load for what you're trying to do, and it matters more with the .40 than with any other handgun caliber I've loaded. For plinkers that barely cycle the action (700 fps range) use fast powders and soft (8-12 bhn) boolits. For medium stuff, like barely making PF loads, use medium powders like Unique and boolits in the 12-16 bhn range. For top end loads, use water-quenched wheel weights, slow powders like HS6, Longshot, Blue Dot, True Blue, or even Power Pistol.

Gear
Having just purchased a Glock 22, I wonder who makes a good case sizer that does not undersized the cases. I want to keep my Glock tube and make a good target load. It does not have to be major class. Just make minor for USPA.

[Doby45]

Use a 40cal FCD with the guts removed. This will insure the case is back to SAAMI specs.