I need enlightenment (.307 win)

[atr]

I just ran across some brass marked 307 Win...
I have never heard of this cartridge...can anyone tell me what it was designed for?
thanks
atr

[polara426sh]

It is a rimmed 308 Win intended for lever guns.

[JeffinNZ]

Introduced in the early/mid 80's for the model 94 angle ejected lever action. Came out with the .356 Win and the .375 'Big Bore'. I think the .375 is the only real survivor. The .307 is, as stated, a rimmed .308 but is loaded to lower pressures for the lever action. Kind of a hyper .30/30. Another solution to a problem that didn't exist.

[jerry_from_ct]

http://www.chuckhawks.com/307win.htm

[Larry Gibson]

The .307 as an excellent cartridge as was the .356 but Winchester didn't read the demographics correctly and mismanaged the entire program. They should have come out with the 24" barreled Black Shadow M94AE version with both of those cartridges. That would have utilized the velocity potential, especially with many of us "baby boomers" who cant see the sights that well on the shorter 20" barreled carbines. There just isn't that much of an advantage over the standard 30-30 in the 20" barrels at practlical ranges those are used at. However, with the M94AE and the Marlins with 24" barrels and particularly when a well prportioned scope is mounted can take advantage of the .307 and .356s real potential.

With the Hornady FTX 160 gr bullets now available along with LeveRevolution & Superperformance powders availble the .307 would easily have equaled the standard .308W and the .356 would have equaled the .358W all within the SAAMI specs for the lever actions. Winchester went belly up because of bad management and that ended both cartridges. Marlin has chose to go with their own propriety cartridges that pretty much do the same as the .307 and .356 could have done.

I would have bought one of each if they had been made in 24" barreled Black Shadow M94AE models. But was not to be..........

Larry Gibson

[lathesmith]

I use 307 Win brass necked down to 7mm for a 7mm/08 Thompson Encore barrel that has a recess cut for the rim. I like rimmed cartridges in single shots, so it filled the bill nicely here.

Although it's a classic, the Winchester 94 design doesn't lend itself particularly well to scope mounting. And, a scope--as well as a bit more barrel length-- would be almost a necessity to exploit the extra velocity potential of the 307 and/or 356 in a lever gun, vs. the 30/30.
Like Larry mentioned, it does make one wonder what kind of popularity these cartridges might have achieved, had the firearms been available to actually utilize their extended range capabilities. I agree, another classic case of poor execution of a potentially good idea.

lathesmith

[JIMinPHX]

The 307 is almost a 308. It's a good cartridge. It's a solid step up from a .30-30.

It's basically a .308 with a rim added & a slightly different case profile. According to Cartridges of the World #9, because the bullet needs to be seated deep, the case volume is a little smaller than a .308. They list a 180 grain SP @2510fps & a 150 grain sp @2760fps. Speer #13 lists loading data & quotes 52,000 CUP max. they also warn against using .308 loading data in the 307.

[geargnasher]

Speaking of good cartridges with less-than-ideal lauching pads, I'm still waiting for Smith & Wesson so pull their heads out from between their cheeks and produce a seven-shot Airweight chambered in .327 Federal Magnum. I fear that that fine little cartridge is going to fade into obscurity because nobody bothered to make a pistol to match the intent of the round. Really, if I'm going to buy a GP100, I'm going to get it in .357, not 327. The SP101 is a tank, too. Smith has the perfect platform, even in a five-shot, if they'd just MAKE it.

Gear

[redneckdan]

Speaking of good cartridges with less-than-ideal lauching pads, I'm still waiting for Smith & Wesson so pull their heads out from between their cheeks and produce a seven-shot Airweight chambered in .327 Federal Magnum. I fear that that fine little cartridge is going to fade into obscurity because nobody bothered to make a pistol to match the intent of the round. Really, if I'm going to buy a GP100, I'm going to get it in .357, not 327. The SP101 is a tank, too. Smith has the perfect platform, even in a five-shot, if they'd just MAKE it.

Gear

Yup. Somebody needs to find a giant 'clue bat' and give some market research department heads a good swift smack between the eye balls.

[Larry Gibson]

Lathesmith

The M94AE is made for scope mounting with the scope easily mounted over the action. The Black Shadow model was a copy of the M64 with it's 24" barrel except the comb was higher for use with a scope. The composite stocks are nice for a pure hunting rifle and walnut stocks would have been nice also. That's the M94 that Winchester should have made in .307 and .356 cartridges......would have been nice........

Larry Gibson

[onesonek]

"I use 307 Win brass necked down to 7mm for a 7mm/08 Thompson Encore barrel that has a recess cut for the rim. I like rimmed cartridges in single shots, so it filled the bill nicely here."

I also had similar thoughts, and had an Encore barrel made for a 250 Sav. AI, using 307 brass.
Right now having another Encore barrel made in a .308, but also having it cut to also have the option for .307 brass.

[lathesmith]

Larry,
I see your point, I am not familiar with the AE action. I was referencing the old side-mount arrangement of the 94, which does work, but many including myself don't consider an ideal setup. That setup you are showing there would have been a fine platform for a cartridge like the 307; why they didn't use it is really hard to figure. Throw in some of those Hornady spitzer-type jacketed bullets for use with tubular mags, and the enhanced performance vs the flat-tipped 30/30 would be even more impressive.

onesonek, another reason I like the 7/08 with a rim is the versatility. I can use the same extractor for either 7mm/307 brass or 7mm/08 brass. All you have to do to use the little flat spring with the rimless 7mm/08, or remove it for the 7mm/307, and it works fine for both cartridges.

lathesmith

[Larry Gibson]

lathesmith

Thought that was what you were refering to which is why I posted the picture, to help clarify what i was saying. I certainly agree about scopeing the older standard M94s. Only thing that works there is a scout scope forward of the receiver. Burris used to make the best mount and I've one for my older M94 and with a 1.5Burris or 2X Leupold scout scope if works very well on the Carbine. Makes the Carbine a 200 yard capable rifle for my tired old eyes with the 311041HP at 2000 fps which suits me fine for that litte carbine.

The M94AE Blk Sdw would have been nice in .307 and i've considered a simple rechambering but the cases have become very hard to get. So far the LeveRevolution ammunition and reloads with that powder have given enough performance boost to the old 30-30 that I've decided to just stay with it.

Larry Gibson

[AnthonyB]

I use 308 brass necked up in my 356 Winchester; regular 308 brass might work in the 307 if brass availability is a concern. I do not use 358 Winchester loads in my 356 and would not use 308 loads in a 307.
Tony

[Doc Highwall]

Think of the 307Win as a more powerful 7-30 Waters.

[lathesmith]

Larry, that 94 AE sure reminds me of the much-more-recent vintage Marlin XLR series, which are very capable rifles, and seem to be reasonably popular. I think you are right on there, I think the 94 AE in 307 and/or 356 would have been much better received.

Doc, that's a pretty good comparison, my 7-30 Contender carbine launches 120 grain spitzers at around 2700 fps, which is plenty good medicine for Missouri White tails, and has more range than I am capable of utilizing. The 7mm/307 shoots the same pills at an easy-to-obtain 2900 fps, and is very accurate as well. I'm sure more velocity could be had, but why? It does all I need it to anyway, more velocity would just add more recoil and the deer wouldn't be any deader than they are now.

lathesmith