357 170 grn SWC Keith

[oscarflytyer]

Is Lyman the only mold maker that offers the Keith bullet design (xxx429) in 357?

I have looked (everywhere?) and it appears Lyman is the only option for this bullet. They offer the 358429.

Has MiHec ever offered this?

If anyone knows of any other options, pls let me know. Thanx

[BABore]

Look here.

www.brp.castpics.net

This is the original Keith version with full diameter top driving band above the crimp groove.

[MtGun44]

I'm pretty sure that Mihec put out a mold in this design. It is a Lyman design, and as such
most makers haven't pooched much over the years - BUT Elmer asked H&G to make his designs, so
I imagine that there is a close equivalent in the H&G stable. Unfortunately, H&G was sold
to Ballisticast and they are recently out of business. Used Lyman or H&G equiv would seem
to be your main choices.

Of course the RCBS 38-150 SWC is an extremely accurate boolit if you don't mind the lower
wt and lack of Elmer's blessing. It is a short nosed version with a very similar design, a quality
mold and a very accurate boolit, IME. Another top notch .38/.357 boolit is the Lyman 358477,
(150 gr twin of the RCBS design) often available used and universally accurate in my experience
along with many other users.

Bill

[ColColt]

Mountain Molds will make you a 170 gr mold built to your specifications if you desire. Here's a pic of mine.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Misc%20Stuff/_DEF3966.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Misc%20Stuff/_DEF3964.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Misc%20Stuff/_DEF3980.jpg

[casterofboolits]

I have been making an inventory of my moulds and find that I have two of the Lyman four cavity #358429 moulds. I have not used these in years. One I know I picked up at a flea market for $10.00 with handles missing the wood. The other, I think I took in trade over twenty years ago, put it on the shelf and promptly forgot it.

I had switched to the Lyman #358477 38-150-SWCPB as the 358429 boolit would not fit the cylinders of my S&W Mod. 27/28's.

Both moulds have the round grease grooves. The first one, IIRC, dropped 168 grains with WW's. However, the cavities of one is sunk deeper in the block and the bottom band is almost twice as long and just comparing the two, I think it will drop about 175/180 grains. Typical Lyman! I'll be checking them out next week to see what they actually drop with my current alloy.

I'm also going to test another unused shelf queen, an H&G #51 ten cavity mould which is supposed to be thier version of the Lyman #358429 to Keith specs. with square grease groove.

[Ben]

My Mountain Mold is slightly different than ColColt's, the nose is slightly different.

It weighs near 180 grs. Mountain Molds makes a FINE MOLD !

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/MM%20%20358429%20Clone/P5190010.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/MM%20%20358429%20Clone/005.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/MM%20%20358429%20Clone/019.jpg

[ColColt]

That's a substantial grease groove! Elmer would be proud. I discovered if I use 50/50 lead-Linotype mine will weigh on average 166.5 gr but if using a BHN 12 it's more like 172-173 grains.(sans the lube of course)

[sagamore-one]

Caster of bullets... I do beleive..... the H&G 51 is the 160 gr Keith type and the H&G 43 is the original Keith 170 ish gr version that Lyman cloned into the 358429. I have all three.
Just for info....

[9.3X62AL]

I have used Lyman #358477 extensively in 38 Special and 38 S&W loadings. It is accurate, easy to cast, and devastating on small game, even at 650-700 FPS. Run to 1000 in high-pressure 38 Special loadings, it smacks coyotes down and deconstructs jackrabbits.

Lyman #358429 has a somewhat poetic design history. My own example has a round lube groove and shorter rear drive band than the front and center bands, and weighs 163 grains in WW alloy. It shoots fine, but a classic Keith it is not.

[ColColt]

Mine has a square lube groove with the base band being larger than the other two. The top drive band is smaller in diameter than the other two as well.

[leadman]

I had a Saeco that I sold here that was a copy of this bullet. I think they still sell it.

[oscarflytyer]

My 357 is an old first run Taurus. Think it was built on Smith parts. As such, the bigger Keith bullet might not fit the cylinder!

Guess I will look at the 150-158 SWC options. Gun is a 4" revolver. Not going to do anything with it but cut paper. might OCCASSIONALLY carry it in the woods, but... w/ a Ruger 44 SPC not much else gets carried...

The 150-8 grn is probably a better option. Thanx for all the input.

[MtGun44]

Lym 358447 or RCBS 38 150 SWC are near clones, RCBS has square lube grove 45 deg crimp
groove, Lyman has rounded lube groove and tiny rounded crimp groove. Both are absolutely
outstanding and IME fully interchangable.

Might have a 4 cav 358477 for sale in a month or so.

Bill

[NHlever]

I'm pretty sure that Mihec put out a mold in this design. It is a Lyman design, and as such
most makers haven't pooched much over the years - BUT Elmer asked H&G to make his designs, so
I imagine that there is a close equivalent in the H&G stable. Unfortunately, H&G was sold
to Ballisticast and they are recently out of business. Used Lyman or H&G equiv would seem
to be your main choices.

Of course the RCBS 38-150 SWC is an extremely accurate boolit if you don't mind the lower
wt and lack of Elmer's blessing. It is a short nosed version with a very similar design, a quality
mold and a very accurate boolit, IME. Another top notch .38/.357 boolit is the Lyman 358477,
(150 gr twin of the RCBS design) often available used and universally accurate in my experience
along with many other users.

Bill

Darn Bill, I wsh I could get the results you get with that boolit RCBS 150 because I really like the shape of it, but it has proved frustrating to me. I just picked up another .357 revolver, and will sure try it soon in that gun. I'm hoping for that good match sooner, or later. On the other hand I have had good luck with the Lee 158 RF, and you apparently have not............ funny how some boolits, or perhaps molds work out.

[MtGun44]

Not so, I have had great results with the Lee 158 gr LBT style BB, official name 358-158-RF, probably
same as you are talking about.

For example.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=161&pictureid=925

I put the wrong designation in the post-it note, it is for sure Lee 358-158-RF with the beveled
base. Note that this is soft range recovery lead at 8BHN.

Very surprised you did not have good results with RCBS 38 150 SWC, here is a typical group
from that one in my 586 6"bbl S&W. This is a pretty hot load, near max. "Trying" to put them
into one hole! This is AC WWt metal, around 11-12 BHN usually.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=161&pictureid=928

Bill

[rintinglen]

MtnGun44 shows what my experience has been. The RCBS 38-150 has been the most accurate .357 SWC. boolit for me. My old Colt Python (which was actually newer than my new Colt Python) absolutely loved them. Twice I managed to put five of them into one hole with that gun at 25 yards. (I had one of those targets hanging on the garage wall for years until it finally got tossed when I moved.) Sadly, my older eyesand newer gun can't seem to duplicate those results anymore, but I still find the 358-477 RCBS clone to be the one to go for when I need a an accurate SWC boolit.

[Billwnr]

LBT makes a 180 grain WFN for the .357. It casts good looking bullets.

[vanilla_gorilla]

I'm desperately trying to remember who cut my 358429 mould. I think it was Night Owl (?) on the forum here. It drops beee-yootiful bullets that shoot better than I do. Nice, square lube groove with a thick base. My very favorite boolit.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/vanilla_gorilla911/casting027.jpg

About as good as I can shoot with them. 15 yards, double action, about as fast as I could line up the sights properly.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/vanilla_gorilla911/gunpics024.jpg

[Ben]

Here is my Mountain Molds Keith, it weighs 182 grs. with lube , ready to shoot.
I've placed a Lyman 358429 by it for comparison

If it is about a deep and wide lube groove and a heavy wide front drive band, Elmer would have loved this one !

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/MM%20%20358429%20Clone/013.jpg

[MtGun44]

I might be a bit worried about that one chambering in some revolvers with short
forcing cones! That IS one heck of a front driving band. I think Elmer was trying
to position the front shoulder to just touch the forcing cone or nearly so. If over
throat diam, the large front driving band might be problematic. If at throat diam,
less so,although clearance would seem to be needed for easy loading.

Please report on the results.

Bill

[Ben]

Will do , Bill.

Loaded to this OAL you see in the photo, in W/W 38 Spec. brass :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/MM%20%20358429%20Clone/0082.jpg

They seem to chamber smoothly in my Colt Officer's Model Match.
The drive bands are sized .3580 "

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/MM%20%20358429%20Clone/009.jpg

[MtGun44]

Well, as long as it chambers properly, I can't see the wide front band doing anything
but helping.

Bill

[bluejay75]

Ben,

PM your load data if you don't mind sharing (in 38 special cases). Have had a dickens of a time trying to make my 173 grain bullets group from a rifle.

I acknowledge that Im trying at my own risk. Using from a Ruger rifle.

Blue

[TexasGrunt]

195142

Wow! Six years old.

[gwpercle]

Noe makes two 357 / 38 SWC's , one weighs 168 grains, the 360-168-SWC (360429) and the other weighs 172 grains , the 360 - 172 - SWC Keith. Those look pretty good also.
Gary

[gundownunder]

Accurate makes a 170 SWC which is inspired by the Keith.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=36-170J-D.png
For my next bullet I'm looking at one of his 150 grain SWCs.
Not much of a grease groove on this one but I HiTek coat so I don't need a grease groove at all.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=36-150L-D.png

[lotech]

H&G #51 is the original .357 Magnum bullet designed by Phil Sharpe. It's not all that similar to the Lyman #358429.

[bluejay75]

Normally 11, 11.5 or 12 grains of 2400 would do the job. I tried the entire powder range and no good load to be had. Was coming together at 12.5 grains but primers had no more room.

[lightman]

I've cast and shot a lot of those RCBS 38-150 bullets. They shoot great in my revolvers. I like it so well that I had RCBS cut me a 170 grain version, which also shoots great. I don't know if they will still do this. A buddy liked the idea so well that he had them do a Keith Type 44 mold the same way. I'm actively searching for a 4 cavity H&G mold in this bullet. Maybe someday!

[fecmech]

PM your load data if you don't mind sharing (in 38 special cases). Have had a dickens of a time trying to make my 173 grain bullets group from a rifle.
A rifle load that shot very well for me in 2 different rifles was 9.5/Blue Dot/358429. That was in mag cases and was approx 1400 fps out of a Win. 94 .357 and a Rossi single shot .357. Both guns would stay under 3 moa with that load.

[bluejay75]

Maybe I'm just being picky. The load did about 1.5 inches to 2 at 50 yards. But my most accurate loads are 38 caliber and at that distance anything short of ragged hole seems large.

[Hooker53]

I was lucky enough to find a 4 C 477 the other day. Gonna find out if history still holds with this old Gal. Ha.

Roy
Hooker53