LBT bullet lube: Say What again?

[milprileb]

I know LBT is good lube and have used it with success.

I just read they say you don't have to clean the barrels out as the
lube keeps them from leading.

Not sure that is great logic. If it were so, then LBT bullet lube thinned and
patched into a barrel would be good range prep of bores so they would not
lead up.

I am having issues wrapping my head around LBT thought process.

[MT Gianni]

If you use a good lube, and there are many IMO, you have no need to clean your bbl. after each range session. The lack of accuracy will let you know when it needs cleaning. You should prep your bore with your lube before shooting for groups. Most of us do that by firing a fouling shot. I don't see a problem with their thinking.

[Bullshop]

A squeaky clean bore free of any lube is the most likely to lead, starting on the very first shot.
Some lubes left in the bore act to protect the steel from rust.

[OuchHot!]

I have seen target shooters start a run with a liquid lubed patch through the bore, followed by a dry patch....I haven't tried it so ymmv.

[singleshot]

You know....

I recentlly leaded my bore with a load my rifle didn't like.

I put LLA on a bronze brush and scrubbed. Within a few passes, the bore looked shiny again and I could see that the rifle had grooves...

...so I loaded up some of the other loads I wanted to try.

Looked at the bore after each, and no leading.

Tried the load my rifle didn't like again...and no leading.

Why did I clean bores with stuff other than LLA or 45/45/10 before? :shock:

Anyone else ever have this experience or similar?

In other words...yes, good boolit lube will protect the bore, but will it also remove lead?

[ColColt]

Hmmmm...this is logic I haven't used before. Immediately(or soon after) I get home from a range visit, I start the process of cleaning bore and cylinder. I'll run a certain amount of patches through the bore, let it be while I'm doing likewise to the cylinder and lay things aside for a few hours and go back with a brass brush followed by more patches until I can take a bore light and see no traces of fouling or lead. I was taught in service that a clean barrel is a happy barrel. The next step is to lightly oil the barrel and cylinder until next time. Most of my autos and revolvers are blued so, hence the oil.

[Larry Gibson]

I always clean my firearms after a shooting session also. I've been using Javelina for years and have yet to lead a clean bore with it. As a matter of fact i use a clean barrel when going hunting with bullets cast of soft alloy for expansion out to 200 yards. I generally push these at 2000 - 2200+ fps and have found most often the 1st 5 - 8 shots are the most accurate ones. After that the bore does foul (that's not leading BTW) and accuracy falls off a bit. I also found the 1st shot from the cold clean bore will go to group. If it doesn't there is something else wrong besides the clean bore.

To the contrary, I have found the 1st shot from a fouled bore that has sat for a while and allowed the lube residue, carbon and any other fouling to get hard will not shoot to group. "Fouling" or warm up shots are often necessary before shooting shuch for accuracy. That's alright when plinking, informal target shooting or even target shooting where such is allowed. When hunting having that 1st shot go awry is not good, at least to me.

Some mention "conditioning" the bore with 2, 10 or even 50 to many more than that before it "shoots good". If I had to put 50+ shots through a rifle to "condition it" some one else would own it. I spent a lot of time shooting smallbore matches years ago. I observed one thing real quick; the winners always cleaned their rifles bore. Tose that shot ok and were there to just enjoy themselves didn't.

It's a matter of choice. I don't use LBT lube any longer. I gave it a good test as i've done with many other "wonder" lubes. Always come back to Javelina or Lars 2500+. And I still clean my barrels.

Larry Gibson

[MtGun44]

Go Javelina! But I don't clean my bores every session with pistols.

LBT soft blue lube works fine for me, too.

Bill

[ColColt]

I have read and seen photos whereby if a given lube is doing what it's suppose to do there will be a "star" of lube at the muzzle. So far I guess I haven't found one of these lubes as none I've tried leave this star.

[williamwaco]

I have seen target shooters start a run with a liquid lubed patch through the bore, followed by a dry patch....I haven't tried it so ymmv.

I do this.

I think it helps but the difference is small and inconsistent.

[stubshaft]

Try to thin it and use it as a pre lube yourself.

IIRC - Rooster labs sold a pre lube years ago, I tried it and did not see any appreciable results from doing so. However, that doesn't mean that in your guns there might not be a measureable difference.

I have known Veral for a number of years and have used LBT Blue soft with positive results. In fact I still have about 8 sticks of it left.

[Bret4207]

I know LBT is good lube and have used it with success.

I just read they say you don't have to clean the barrels out as the
lube keeps them from leading.

Not sure that is great logic. If it were so, then LBT bullet lube thinned and
patched into a barrel would be good range prep of bores so they would not
lead up.

I am having issues wrapping my head around LBT thought process.

Sell lube, sell moulds, satisfy customer demand, stay in business- eat. That's LBTs thought process in a nutshell. While I mean no disrespect to Veral, the man is no more immune from a bit of salesmanship than anyone else. No lube is magic, no lube always prevents leading.

[btroj]

Yep, it is called marketing. Veral has done ALOT for the cast bullet industry but he is still in business. His job is to make money. Like the rest of us, he has bills to pay.

[bhn22]

However, Veral is a pretty simple man. Not simple-minded, but straight-forward & reliable. He's not one to make a claim that he doesn't believe. He plays is straight with you, and expects the same in return. He's not a marketing genius, nor have I found him prone to exaggeration. His facts & beliefs are so straight forward that it appears to be marketing hype to those who aren't familiar with him. He believes in what he's doing with every fiber of his being.

[leftiye]

I recently shot a new to me 100 year old Colt 32-20 police positive special for the first time. The bore was rough (for some reason after 100 years of abuse) and the lube I was using, I had messed up some and I didn't know how it would work, So, I looked down the bore after each shot. The first one looked like it was leading, so I ran a brush through it a couple a licks. Same for the second, but less "lead". As each shot was fired, you could see the bore getting "dirtier" starting at the rear and progressing forward. By seventh shot the bore was completely covered (not caked), and no leading from then on.

If this residue seems to you to be a threat if left in, I'd say to run some diluted Mule Snot through it and brush it some prior to commencing your next session. Whatever is left will soften the residue and prevent leading from getting started. If your first few shots lead, the rest might never get over it (eh?).

[curator]

I agree with bhn22. Veral's as straight as they come. LBT lube (particularly the "blue") is excellent if you want high velocity and accuracy. You will have to do your homework and come up with a bullet size, alloy, and design that works in your gun. It is not magic if the bullet is undersize or velocity/pressure exceeds alloy strength and design criteria. I have used "blue" lubed .357 bullets to shoot out leading from commercial cast loads. Following Veral's advise brought me into the world of successful cast-boollit shooting after years wandering in the Lyman-RCBS-Lee desert.

[michiganvet]

I have a good supply of the old HARD LBT blue. It Is messy, needs a lightbulb to warm the lubrisizer but it sure does give good accuracy at top velocities.

[geargnasher]

Hmmmm...this is logic I haven't used before. Immediately(or soon after) I get home from a range visit, I start the process of cleaning bore and cylinder. I'll run a certain amount of patches through the bore, let it be while I'm doing likewise to the cylinder and lay things aside for a few hours and go back with a brass brush followed by more patches until I can take a bore light and see no traces of fouling or lead. I was taught in service that a clean barrel is a happy barrel. The next step is to lightly oil the barrel and cylinder until next time. Most of my autos and revolvers are blued so, hence the oil.

I'll bet you didn't shoot cast boolits in the service, either. They were certainly right to teach what they taught, just don't take it out of the intended context. Revolvers by and large aren't accurate enough for it to really matter, and I know I can't shoot one well enough to tell the difference between a seasoned bore and one that's clean, but I always prelube the bore before shooting because they are usually thoroughly cleaned after each shooting session. Rifles get everything cleaned but the bore with few exceptions.


I have read and seen photos whereby if a given lube is doing what it's suppose to do there will be a "star" of lube at the muzzle. So far I guess I haven't found one of these lubes as none I've tried leave this star. That's a myth. Presence of a lube star, especially a faint one, is usually a good sign, although a drippy one can mean your lube is too slick or too viscous and the results often show on paper with large groups and fliers. The inverse, no star being necessaryily bad, is not true at all. Some of my best-shooting rifle and handgun loads do not leave a star at all, even after a hundred rounds or more.

Having a lube star after a few shots isn't, IMO, a worthy goal in and of itself.

I use pure castor bean oil or Bullplate sprue lube as a prelube on a squeaky-clean barrel, it eliminates first-shot, dry-bore leading with an otherwise good, non-leading load.

Gear

[44man]

I don't like a clean barrel! With my revolvers, if I happen to feel bored and clean one the first shot will be out but none after. I never oil my bores after cleaning, stainless. No rust problems in my basement even if blued.
I have seen many miss deer with a clean rifle and the first shot, then bring the gun here to see if there is something wrong with it.
When I shot IHMSA and used one of my single shots like the XP100, that would hit all 40 and only win a match by hitting more chickens at 200 meters, a clean bore would miss the first chicken. The rest of the shoot was then gone down the drain. :roll:
I never, ever go in the field or to a shoot without one shot down the bore.
The only way to make sure a clean bore will hit the first shot is to sight in with a clean bore and clean between sighting shots. Then all of a sudden you need a second shot on game, where does THAT shot go?
When you load right and have a good boolit lube, there is never any reason to pre-lube a bore. Just shoot once. If that shot leads, something is wrong to start with.
If you have rust problems and clean, wipe the bore before shooting and shoot one shot before hunting or turning to the target.
There is only one exception and that is a round ball or Maxi Ball muzzle loader.

[rintinglen]

I always clean my firearms after a shooting session also. I've been using Javelina for years and have yet to lead a clean bore with it. As a matter of fact i use a clean barrel when going hunting with bullets cast of soft alloy for expansion out to 200 yards. I generally push these at 2000 - 2200+ fps and have found most often the 1st 5 - 8 shots are the most accurate ones. After that the bore does foul (that's not leading BTW) and accuracy falls off a bit. I also found the 1st shot from the cold clean bore will go to group. If it doesn't there is something else wrong besides the clean bore.

To the contrary, I have found the 1st shot from a fouled bore that has sat for a while and allowed the lube residue, carbon and any other fouling to get hard will not shoot to group. "Fouling" or warm up shots are often necessary before shooting shuch for accuracy. That's alright when plinking, informal target shooting or even target shooting where such is allowed. When hunting having that 1st shot go awry is not good, at least to me.

Some mention "conditioning" the bore with 2, 10 or even 50 to many more than that before it "shoots good". If I had to put 50+ shots through a rifle to "condition it" some one else would own it. I spent a lot of time shooting smallbore matches years ago. I observed one thing real quick; the winners always cleaned their rifles bore. Tose that shot ok and were there to just enjoy themselves didn't.

It's a matter of choice. I don't use LBT lube any longer. I gave it a good test as i've done with many other "wonder" lubes. Always come back to Javelina or Lars 2500+. And I still clean my barrels.

Larry Gibson
Larry, you took the words out o fmy mouth, well actually, you took my thoughts, articulated them well, added facts that I would probably have over looked, and presented them in a logical, well thought out fashion. Gee, I'm smarter than I thought I was, if only by association:bigsmyl2:

[Bass Ackward]

Not to throw gas on the fire here, but I have guns with loads that shoot well clean and gun load combos that throw fliers even on the second shot.

I have guns and loads that group well, but don't really settle down till they have close to 100 rounds through them before they shoot to the sights again.

I have loads that won't shoot for squat until the dreaded L-word. (gun leads up)(yes, not all leading is bad)

Man has to do what a man has to do.

As usual, it only makes difference if it does. If it does, you either do it or don't. Ain't rocket science.

[Lloyd Smale]

good lube. I used to use alot of it. I dont anymore because its grossly overpriced. Lars make lubes that are every bit as good and a 1/3 the price. Same goes for the javalina recomendation. Ive used many lbs of it and is a good lube but no better then lars alox mix and again lars lubes are drasticaly lower in price. Its a no brainer to me. If im not going to make it myself i by it from lars. Anymore with the cost of all of the components i cant make it any cheaper the lars sells it. So again its a no brainer. Id rather be shooting then making lube.

[44man]

good lube. I used to use alot of it. I dont anymore because its grossly overpriced. Lars make lubes that are every bit as good and a 1/3 the price. Same goes for the javalina recomendation. Ive used many lbs of it and is a good lube but no better then lars alox mix and again lars lubes are drasticaly lower in price. Its a no brainer to me. If im not going to make it myself i by it from lars. Anymore with the cost of all of the components i cant make it any cheaper the lars sells it. So again its a no brainer. Id rather be shooting then making lube.
He sure does and by the way, he makes a great BPCR lube.
It also works good in front of the ball in a cap and ball.

[milprileb]

Is White Label the same as Lars ?