How About A 175gr Keith .357 Pistol Bullet Group Buy?

[RGRWJB]

I missed the last one is there still enough interest?

[Cayoot]

I have two from Catshooters gb...I gotta say, this is the best .357 boolit I have ever had, bar none! It is now the ONLY boolit I load in all of my .357s.

I'm all set with these moulds, so I won't be getting in on this buy, but the boolit is so good that I'd encourage anybody who hasn't gotten in on Catshooters gb to get in on the next one. He did say that there was so much demand for it that he will probably do the entire line of classic Keith boolits again in the future....don't miss the boat again! Catshooter is a true Gentleman and does an outstanding, expert job on the gbs!

[sargeny1]

OH HECK YESSS...I'm in...DO IT...
PETE

[Sven Dufva]

Im intrested.
Cavity?
cast iron?

[Heavy]

Count me in on this one also.

[Little Joe]

Will this be a gas checked bullet?

Little Joe

[Heavy]

The normal keith 173 gr. is a plain base design.

[John F.]

How would the plain based bullet fare out of a rifle?

Any chance at all of getting some mix of gaschecked and plain based
cavities in the same mould?

I would like at least 1 mould, but would prefer gaschecked, myself, if limited
to only 1 option.
Thanks,
John

[MtJerry]

I have taken an original Lyman 358429 (173gr Keith) up to 2000fps without leading.

It shoots just fine without a GC, it just depends on your lube.

I'd love to be in on this buy as well. My Lyman mould is a single cavity ... having a 6 cavity would be reallllllly nice.

[Little Joe]

What lube are you using on your Keith bullets MTJerry?

It would be nice not to have to use a gas check but without good lube bore leading can be a problem.

OH BOY:drinks: a 6 cavity Keith mold deal:drinks:

Out of here again but will return.
Little Joe

[MtJerry]

What lube are you using on your Keith bullets MTJerry?

It would be nice not to have to use a gas check but without good lube bore leading can be a problem.

OH BOY:drinks: a 6 cavity Keith mold deal:drinks:

Out of here again but will return.
Little Joe

A homebrew ...

8oz Beezwax
4oz Safflower oil
2oz Hoppe's Elite gun oil

[keeper89]

Due to various and sundry complications, I too missed the Keith gb's that Catshooter ran. I would be interested in both the 357 and the 44......

[Catshooter]

Double post.

[Catshooter]

Well see -
He did say that there was so much demand for it that he will probably do the entire line of classic Keith boolits again in the future....don't miss the boat again!

See? I told ya there was a lot of demand.:-D

This weekend I'll post up the heavy .45 Keith GBs. Then when they are done, I expect I'll start the whole series over again. I just hate to see grown men cry![smilie=1:

For y'all that haven't done this before, it's a slow process so you have to be patient. Seems to be worth it though.

The ones I do are all true Keiths, no gas checks.


Cat

[John F.]

I'm in for one mould when this one is confirmed to be underway.

Thanks,
John

[357maximum]

If I can swing it when it rolls..I am in

[jeff223]

i might be in for one of these molds but i would like to see a spec sheet if i could please and thankyou

[MtGun44]

I'd be in for one if it is a true Keith design. I assume we are
talking about a square groove 358429 replica. Is this correct?

What as-cast diameter? I have an original 358429, but the quantity
capability of the 6 holer would be nice.:-D

Bill

[MGySgt]

I am in for the .357 and .45 if the 45 is .454.

[45 2.1]

I'd be in for one if it is a true Keith design. I assume we are
talking about a square groove 358429 replica. Is this correct?

What as-cast diameter? I have an original 358429, but the quantity
capability of the 6 holer would be nice.:-D

Bill

You might read this and subsequent threads for how this came about.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=6420

[RGRWJB]

I'm up for one.

[Dan in Wa]

Cat.
If you want to do it again
I'm in for the 358429.429421

[cherok9878]

Gentlemen, Catshooters 357 Keith is a very good boolit. Casts well, shoots even better. 45 2.1 did an excellent job on design as usual. I am waiting on the 44 Keith GB to come in, can't wait to give'er a try.

Thanks again Cat and 45 2.1...................larry

[376Steyr]

I'm ready! Looking forward to the catching the Keith designs I missed on the first go around.

[Poohgyrr]

I'm probably in for another of these. Too good to pass up.

:drinks: :Fire:

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

Ah heck, I'm in for one of these when it gets up and going. Never can have too many .357 heavy boolits laying around.....

[Little Joe]

I was wondering about the speed that these bullets can be pushed without leading the bore?Also was wondering if Keith bullets are good for shooting out of rifles or they good for pistols only?

They should be quick killers.I see they have big meplat on the picture I looked at.

Thanks for any help

Im out of here,
Little Joe

[waksupi]

Joe, they should work ok in a rifle.

[Catshooter]

Joe,

Mostly leading is caused by other things than just the boolit being lead. If you all of this forum there is you will have a huge education on the subject. Usually the boolit being too small, the wrong or not enough lube and alloy have much more bearing.


Cat

[MtGun44]

45 - 2.1,

Thanks very much for pointing me to the thread! I'm new to the site,
so I may need a little handholding to get me up to speed. :???:

I've been impressed with you and Catshooter's work on these
Keith designs. My limited experiences with Elmer's molds and
loads have convinced me that that man knew a whole lot about
shooting cast bullets in revolvers. Multiple times I have fumbled
around for months trying different powders, molds and loads.
Then I go back and dig out "Sixguns" and study the appropriate
pages, and wind up with excellent results each time. :-D

I'm looking fwd to improving on my current reasonably complete
Keith mold collection with your versions. I have many versions
of 429421 from Lyman, and others, and Lyman 452423, 454424,
358429. I'm going to HP at least one of the 429421s this winter.

AND - by 'square grooved', I really meant 'flat bottomed' as opposed
to the semicircular sections used on the later Lyman molds, not
actually 90 deg edges on the lube groove. Were there actually
90 degree lube groove molds made? My Lyman "square groove"
molds have around a 60-70 degree angle or so and release well
in most cases.

Thanks.

Bill

[45 2.1]

AND - by 'square grooved', I really meant 'flat bottomed' as opposed to the semicircular sections used on the later Lyman molds, not actually 90 deg edges on the lube groove. Were there actually 90 degree lube groove molds made? My Lyman "square groove" molds have around a 60-70 degree angle or so and release well in most cases. Thanks.Bill

I have two samples that seem to be and have an original 452423 mold that is very close to square. If there is any draft angle, which it would seem, it is very slight.

[Cayoot]

I have two samples that seem to be and have an original 452423 mold that is very close to square. If there is any draft angle, which it would seem, it is very slight.

Excellent!!!! Is Catshooter thinking on running that gb too? I have one gb on the 452423 and would dearly love another!:drinks:

[Catshooter]

JLL has been hounding me to do a 452423 also. I expect I will, but it'll be much later in the year


Cat

[rockrat]

I would be in for one. How about upping the weight to an even 180 grains. What would it take, about 0.010" added to the length of the base band?

[gregg]

One heads up . The 452423, 454424, are the same lenght.
Just wider bands. I had thought the 452423, 454424,
were to be the same bullet up to the driveing band and
the 454 would have a loner nose?

[45 2.1]

One heads up . The 452423, 454424, are the same lenght.
Just wider bands. I had thought the 452423, 454424,
were to be the same bullet up to the driveing band and
the 454 would have a loner nose?

Nope, the 454424 GB is 0.673" long and the 454423 GB is 0.643" long with differences is band widths also.

[Heavy]

If this is a go; I would like in on a Keith style 175 gr. six banger 357 cal. And if something comes along for the 45 auto speak up loud and clear. Would like one of those also.

[Poohgyrr]

Not a Keith, but it is .45 auto.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=12094

[cherok9878]

I was wondering about the speed that these bullets can be pushed without leading the bore?Also was wondering if Keith bullets are good for shooting out of rifles or they good for pistols only?

They should be quick killers.I see they have big meplat on the picture I looked at.

Thanks for any help

Im out of here,
Little Joe

Joe, a little info on the catshooter 357, Keith.
It drops from my mould, ACWW, with ease. Sized to 359 lubed with LARS white label, 5 random boolets weighed 179.4, 179.0, 178.4, 178.0 and 178.4.
I load this round for a Rossi 92 rifle in 357 cases and it feeds flawlessly at 1.63. I use this boolit in my revolvers but it has to be loaded in 38 spcl cases.

I found a load in an old Speer #9 loading manual for a 180 gr condom bullet. The test rifle was a Winchester 92, 20"bbl, 1 in 20 twist. The best performing powder was H110. Three loads were given, 15.5 gr at 1514 MV, 16.5 gr at 1631 MV, 17.5gr at 1718 MV.
Junior 1942 and I think 357 Maximum use lil Gun with better results.
This keith boolit shoots better than anything I have tried before, out of my rifle. I use the mid range load, 16.5 gr. at a "book" 1631 FPS Muz. Remember this is a plain base boolit. The primers are somewhat flat. I get no leading, couple passes with an oiled swab and bore is like a mirror................larry

[MtGun44]

45 2.1,

Thanks for the education. I have a 452423 with the semicircular
lube groove. I'd imagine that with near zero draft the bullet would
just love to stay where it was born. Bet it's a PITA to cast with.

Is there a thread where you expound on your interpretation of
Elmer's design concepts? I've seen a few sidelong comments on
the subject and they are tantalizing. I'd like to read more about
what you have learned about the subject of bullet design, along
the lines of your signature phrase.

Thanks.

Bill

[45 2.1]

45 2.1,

Thanks for the education. I have a 452423 with the semicircular
lube groove. I'd imagine that with near zero draft the bullet would
just love to stay where it was born. Bet it's a PITA to cast with.

Is there a thread where you expound on your interpretation of
Elmer's design concepts? I've seen a few sidelong comments on
the subject and they are tantalizing. I'd like to read more about
what you have learned about the subject of bullet design, along
the lines of your signature phrase.

Thanks.

Bill

No, it actually casts just about like any other slightly stubborn mold. Not all that much problem to cast with. And no, there is not a thread with me making a real long post on design and Keiths ideas (i'm not a good writer), but i'm usually good at one to one via e-mail. Should you want to try that, PM me.

[GLL]

45 2.1:

Would you be willing to post your large GB drawing of the 452423 one more time so we can all take another look? I have been "bugging" CAT to rerun the GB on this one and perhaps your drawing would renew interest !

Jerry

[45 2.1]

45 2.1:

Would you be willing to post your large GB drawing of the 452423 one more time so we can all take another look? I have been "bugging" CAT to rerun the GB on this one and perhaps your drawing would renew interest !

Jerry

Here it is:

[GLL]

45 2.1:

Thank you !

Jerry

[MDF99]

I'd be in for the 175 grain 357 mould.

[Nueces]

I'm in for a six-banger 38 Keith.

Nueces

[MtGun44]

I'd be willing to go in for a .357 Keith/Catshooter/45 2.1
mold.

Bill

[Poohgyrr]

You know, I really!! want one of those 8 shot .357 M27s S&W has out right now. Can you imagine one of those loaded with this boolit!! And backed up by a 16" M92 with the same!! Hunting, tin cans, or home defense....

:Fire: :Fire: :Fire:

:drinks:

[MtGun44]

I think the cylinder on the M28 is too short for this bullet with
.357 mag brass. It will fit with .38 SPl brass, but that may
compromise your ability to safely load to high pressures as
the .38 Spl brass may not be up to the pressures.

I just got a 586 even tho I had originally wanted an N-frame
for this reason. I'm not absolutely positive that this is true of
current production guns, but it is certainly true of older M27
and M28 N-frame .357 mags.

Bill

[Murphy]

MtGun44,

When Keith loaded this particular boolit (#358429) in Magnum cases, he would seat the boolit to where the forward driving band was inside of the case and the crimp firmly just over the edge of that band.

I do know seated and crimped in the crimp groove using .357 cases, that the loaded round will chamber in a Model 19, but just barely. I am reluctant to push this boolit to hard in a K frame though. Which is why I have a Model 28...*Smile*.

If I recall correctly, it will fit in a S&W Model 586 seated and crimped in the crimp groove using .357 brass. Best of luck with it.

Murphy

[Nueces]

I agree with MtGun44 and Murphy. Keith designed this boolit for use in the 38 Special, before the advent of the 357, and made it to seat out as far as possible. So seated in the 38, OAL is 1.53, which will just fit in a prewar Colt Officers Model, one of the shortest cylinders of the time. OAL with the 357 case is 1.66. I've kept a log of cylinder-length measurements, taken from the base of a chambered case to the front face of the cylinder. Note that this eliminates the variable due to recessed rims.

1.56 Officers Model, Official Police
1.61 Python
1.62 S&W N-frames in 38/357
1.63 Freedom M-97
1.64 Ruger SP-101, Dan Wesson
1.65 S&W M-640
1.66 Colt SAA, Ruger FT/OM and GP-100
1.68 S&W M-19,66 and Colt New Service
1.75 Ruger NM

Never measured a Smith L-frame. If I get my druthers, I plan a long-cylindered Ruger Flat Top that'll accept the 1.66 357.

Mark

[Poohgyrr]

Midway had 1X Federal .38 brass on sale a while back and I bought some. It has been cleaned and is sitting in a bucket, waiting.......

:Fire:

[Catshooter]

My boolit crimped in the .357 case fits nicely in my 686 :)


Cat

[warriorsociologist]

:coffee: Tag for info...

[doc25]

I'm interested as well what would be the price shipped to Canada (about)?

[Catshooter]

doc,

The price all depends on who runs the buy. I ask for a few more dollars, like four or five, but I want US $ only.


Cat

[doc25]

Ok, we have USD's here. This is my first time venturing into the group buy thing. When does this become a reality? Is it close?

[deadguy]

If this buy becomes a reality in the near future, I'd be on the fence between this one and the plain base 180 gr .360" buy. Would this bullet drop at least .359" to make it good for the Marlin lever guns? I'm looking for a plain base that would work well in both the Marlin and my Ruger revolvers. Which do you guys think would be the best bet?

[warriorsociologist]

I'm definitely in for one of these.
- CM (53083)

[John F.]

I'm hoping this one will go "official" soon -- got a Winchester 92 to feed! :)

Thanks,
John

[RGRWJB]

Any chance getting one of these going?

[Poohgyrr]

I'm waiting for a .357 M92 to get back from the gunsmith and it will be hungry..

And if nothing else, this would be good for the .357s our son has already asked for.

:Fire:

[Bob]

I'm very interested in this 175gr Keith. My participation is dependent on price and how soon it will happen. I just bought a Rossi Puma 92 (brought it home on 2/13) so I'm a little strapped for cash right now. Next month I might be able to swing it. But I sure would like to get one of those moulds!
Bob

[rhead]

Count me in as very interested!!!

[jeff223]

im interested in this deal and i can PM Tom Myers for a spec sheet.
hows that sound?someone might aswell make a move on this [smilie=w:

[Catshooter]

Gentlemen,

I noticed years ago that when it comes to Keith SWCs, while there were lots of moulds calling themselves Keiths, they all fell short.

About four seconds after I discovered this board I deceided that I wanted to do some group buys and get as close as I could to what Keith really wanted.

45 2.1 hooked up with me very quickly and we worked for almost a year before we got up what we felt was the best we could do. One board member sent me almost ten pounds of 'Keith' sample boolits (thanks GLL).

45 2.1 really has much more knowledge and experience than I, my contribution was mostly organizational and just being the nag who kept pointing out what Keith said. I held Seagiant's money for over a year!

But we got it done. And we have yet to hear of one report where someone was disatisfied with it.

I've been on this board awhile (allthough I'm not permitted in the Old Timers Club :) ) and I've never seen more group buys running at the same time as now. People only have so much money, for most people anyway.

If you guys really want the mould re-run, I'll do it now. Do you think you'll get to the magic 25? I've got six going right now, one more is no big deal.

Let me know.


Cat

[Boomer Mikey]

I'm interested if it's the original Catshooter mold and the buy is run by Catshooter.

The Keith series is Catshooter's speciality, I don't like the idea of someone else trying to hijack it.

I understand he's going to run this again later this spring or summer.

Boomer :Fire:

[Catshooter]

I've noticed that every time I close a buy there's always some as get left out which I don't like.

I've bought more and more extras from each buy but there's never enough it seems.

I don't know, maybe I just re-run all of the Keiths at the same time late summer/fall?


Cat

[357maximum]

I'm interested if it's the original Catshooter mold and the buy is run by Catshooter.

The Keith series is Catshooter's speciality, I don't like the idea of someone else trying to hijack it.

I understand he's going to run this again later this spring or summer.

Boomer :Fire:

:mrgreen: :drinks: :mrgreen: I second that notion...not trying to draw lines in the sand, but sometimes , what is right is just...well it's right



I've noticed that every time I close a buy there's always some as get left out which I don't like.

I've bought more and more extras from each buy but there's never enough it seems.

I don't know, maybe I just re-run all of the Keiths at the same time late summer/fall?


Cat

Is it not odd how many PM's one recieves 1 day or so after the buy closes? Been guilty of it once myself when I got caught with my head up my..well you know. Seems human nature/finances force alot of folks to wait till the end. If I had not got caught visually inspecting my innards I would have never re-ran the 358-180, and there was over 50 buyers in on that one, which was the second reprisal buy.....and still there was guys that joined the family a bit late, and others who were inspecting their colons visually. It seems to be just the way it is whenever there are such good offers available for a limited amount of time....and I never seem to have excess cash to buy extras, and hope that they are wanted, CFO would not be happy with me if they were unwanted so I unfortunately have to leave a straggler or two behind, it sucks, and I don't like it, but it is the way it is.


I can wait till you re-run the 358 Keith, why redesign a wheel that has already been perfected by you and 45 2.1, kinda like wipin before ya poop, just makes no sense

Michael

[dltaskey]

Soon's it's a sticky, I'm in!

[Nueces]

Catshooter,

I be in for two each of the 38, 44 and 45s, either rat na or whenever. Les doo et, Mon.

Mahk

[Catshooter]

Well then Nueces, pony up with a PM to me right quick as the buy for the .45-310 is coming up soon to be closed. I'm also running one for the .45 auto you might like.


Cat

[Timberghozt]

I`ll be in for one of the 358 Keith..
Gene

[Heavy]

Like I said I am in on this one. Get a stickie going when everyone is ready. Should make 25 with no problems.

[RGRWJB]

There is about 20 listed here now. I'm sure more will step up to the plate when the group buy is announced.

[Mallard57]

How well does the 358429 bullet work for light to mid-range loads?
Jeff

[nicholst55]

I'm definitely interested in one of these. Is it going to be a 6-cavity mould from Lee?

[sargeny1]

YESS..YESSSS..I'm IN....when,where,how...the sooner the better....

[DanWalker]

I'll take one also. One can never have too many keith boolits laying around.

[sargeny1]

Will the bullets from this group buy mold fit ALL 357 revolvers....??? such as python...the new anniv blackhawk..??? S&W Model 27's...???

[RGRWJB]

yes it will fit them.

[fivegunner]

I would take two! please let us know when to send the money.:Fire: :-D

[sargeny1]

We are all waiting with baited breadth.....

[Catshooter]

I'm running SEVEN group buys right now! Yikes! You really can't ask me to pick up another, can you? (Be nice!)

I expect the .45 round nose & the .44 Keith moulds in any day now. I was kinda thinking that once I get them mailed, I'll start this one up right away.

That work for you all?


Cat

[RGRWJB]

yes! That will work.

[Nueces]

Sho'nuff, Cat, that'll do fine. Really don't want to open your throttle too much, so's ya get burnt out. This would be another good time to thank you, and all Honchos, for keeping us all connected to the Silver Stream. When we get all lathered and jumpy, it may ease your minds to think of us as 8-year-olds on Christmas day. Pretty cute, really, don't ya think? :mrgreen:

Mark

[sargeny1]

OH LORD..it can't come soon enough...thank you Cat...

[Cracker]

Noob checking in and waiting for details

:bigsmyl2:

[Mohillbilly]

yall can count me in too

[RGRWJB]

Just Didn't Want This One To Fall Out Of Sight.

[2 dogs]

CAtshooter, Im new on this board, and struggling to keep up with all these great group buys! Count me in for 2 keith 357 molds. Sounds like the guys would like a gas check version too. I know I would. thanks for all your help.

[garandsrus]

All,

With Catshooters and 45 2.1's blessing I opened the group buy. It is on the group buy site under "38/357 Keith".

The best part, other than getting the mold, is that the price will be $45 shipped. See the new thread for more details.

John

[warriorsociologist]

Hooray!!!
Order on the way.
- CM

[geoff40]

I'd like to be in on this buy. I am also interested in the .45 Colt mold for Ruger BH, and the .44 Magnum as well.

[Lucky Joe]

geoff40,

You are new to this site, this order is closed and in the process of being filled, then sent to the Honcho (this is the person in charge of running the group buy) he will then send the moulds to those of us who have placed an order. Do not be discouraged, often when a mould is popular it will rerun after a while, perhaps as new members join and request the same mould, also some will buy the mould use it and then offer it up for sale if they figure they have enough on hand for a while.

I'm sorry you did not get in on this buy, but I am glad you have joined the Cast Boolit Forum. You will learn much and we hope you will share what you know. Also as an after thought perhaps someone will cast a bunch for you for a fee or for the heck of it and supply you with these 175 gr. until you can get your own.

Visit often and welcome.

[Poohgyrr]

geoff40,

I think I recognize your forum name from another forum. If so, then Welcome! here and enjoy.

If not, then Welcome! anyway.

And this mold is pretty popular; maybe someone will honcho another group buy in a while.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Geoff,

Good to see you here!

Wayne Dobbs