Dish Detergent for Mould Pre-Cast Clean-Up Question

[insanelupus]

I've been using dish detergent to clean up a mould after it comes out of storage and before I cast with it. Typically, this area has very low humidity, so I just use cheap ol' WD-40 (panther pee my grandad used to call it), to soak the mould down for storage. I wrap it in a plastic bag to cut down on evaporation and store several dessicant packets with the all my moulds. That's worked well in the past.

What hasn't worked so well, is using dish detergent to clean up a cavity of oil. I've used boiling water, boiling water with detergent filled cavities, hot water from the tap, then go to a tooth brush scrub, rinse, and reboil in fresh water or hot tap water. No matter what, it seems I have problems dropping good bullets for at least 20-30 drops from the mould. I've had numerous frosted bullets with wrinkles in them indicating oil in the mould.

I finally started using a product called Lectra-motive from NAPA, which is non corrosive and non flammible and intended for electric motors as a degreaser. But it's a messy process with blowback from shooting the cavities under pressure, not to mention it's much more expensive than detergent.

I notice a lot of fellers use Dawn for a degreasing detergent. Our detergent is usually the cheapest stuff at the store and almost always contains some sort of supposed "Antibacterial" formula. I've come to the conclusion that (or another "additive") is remaining behind in the cavities, even with the hot water.

Has anyone else noticed this? I'm going to buy a bottle of Dawn and try it, but I'm thinking not all dish detergents are the same when it comes to degreasing (but my wife doesn't buy into it, which saves me money so I don't complain).

Anyone else seem to notice this?

[casterofboolits]

A diluted solution of Dawn has alwys worked quite well for me for as long as it has been on the market. I do not boil my moulds, just rinse in hot tap water and scrub with a tooth brush while rinsing.

I dislike using WD40 on my moulds as it penetrates the cast iron and may require multiple scrubbings and a casting session to remove the residue.

And, horrors of horrors, I lightly smoke the cavities of my moulds with a Bic lighter and use a dry graphite film lubricant spray on the tops of the mould and the bottom of the sprue plate. This works for me. I had a casting business for twenty three years and cast and sold several million boolits and I considered Dawn an essential tool of the trade.

Anti-bacterial additives does not appear to affect the results at all.

[montana_charlie]

I dislike using WD40 on my moulds as it penetrates the cast iron
I don't use it on moulds, either. It is a 'water displacer', not a lubricant nor a rust inhibitor. It really has no quality that makes it useful on a bullet mould.

CM

[dragonrider]

I don't believe you are having a "cleaning" problem. Sounds more like a "heat" problem, as in lack of a sufficiently heated mold. I use Dawn dish soap to clean my molds, and nothing else and I clean them only once, that is all that is needed. No chemical sprays such a carb or brake cleaner, they contain petroleum distillates that you do not want in your mold. Do not use release agents like smoke or any of the commercial products available. If your boolits are sticking in the mold, using any kind of release agent is only covering up a problem in the mold. Some of us have molds that drop so well that no tapping is needed, that is a well prepared mold and that is what you need strive for. Like boolit fit to you gun, mold preparation it is the key to a well functioning mold. However using a few light taps on the hinge bolt to release the boolits is most common and will in no way harm your mold.
So gentlemen please stop trying to wear out your molds by scrubbing them clean, if you have cleaned in dish soap and hot water it is clean enough, can't get any cleaner, look beyond cleaning for the cause and correct it.

[Wally]

Just spray the molds w/GumOut Carb cleaner (outdoors) and they will cast bullets just fine. Using detergent introduces water and a chance of rust... have also used Brake Klean but you have to be sure it evaporates completely, if it doesn't and it gets hot; it makes a toxic gas (Only with the Chlorinated variety)...

[btroj]

I have always used water, a toothbrush, and Comet. Works very well. I have found that some olds need a few hear cycles to fully get the oil out of the pores in the metal, sort of what you are finding with the WD40.
Why are you oiling the moulds after use? I keep my clean at all times. Keep them dry and you shouldn't have too much trouble. And yes, it gets plenty humid in NE in the summers. Never seems to cause trouble for my moulds though.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

There are a number of products that work to degrease/de-oil a mold prior to use. I have used paint thinner and/or acetone. Both are solvents and work well along with soaking and an old toothbrush. Wipe dry, but a hair dryer speeds the process a lot. Of course preheating completes the job. Both acetone and/or paint thinner are toxic to breathe so good ventilation is a must. LLS

[theperfessor]

I use acetone first to remove as much of the cutting oil residue as possible and then dish soap and warm water with a toothbrush. Sometimes it still takes a heating/cooling cycle to get good bullets but not always.

[onondaga]

Dawn is a good quality detergent. I have also been happy with Mean Green.

The frosty boolit with wrinkles does not indicate oil in a mold. That is a thermal indicator. It is hard to get just the right temp of a mold to give a first great boolit. I have worked on that a lot for my molds and every mold box of mine is marked with my alloy choice, pot setting and mold corner dip time in seconds for preheating the mold.. Most of my molds warm correctly between 22 and 32 seconds.

Oil in a mold is generally indicated by rounded craters on the boolit surface where the oil has boiled into a gas dome and cratered the boolit during the pour. That looks much different than frosting/wrinkles and it is a good idea to study the differences in observation to determine problems correctly.

Gary

[insanelupus]

Hmmmmm. I'm having a hard time understanding how a bullet which comes out completely frosted (i.e., cast with a melt at high temp along with mould blocks which are also high temp), but has a wrinkle (crease?) in the bullet face, which is smooth and typically semi-circular in shape (as well as frosted) and usually at or near the ogive of the bullet and covering typically less than 1/4 of the cirucmference of the bullet in size (in relation to the bullet itself) could be from a mould which is not hot enough. Especially when, without adjusting the pour time or temperature of the pot, is consistant enough to replicate over the course of several pours. It will eventually go away (and diminish in size over the course of several pours). I've also let the mould cool to the point of handling and then clean with a solvent, which usually solves the problem. What am I missing here? How can the melt and the mould be hot enough to consistantly cast frosted bullets, but not be "up to temp"?

I don't use anything else on the mould unless I touch a Q-tip lightly dabbed in Bullplate to the allignment pins (the above was a problem before I started using Bullplate too). No smoking of the cavities either.

I bought some Dawn at the grocery and I'll give it a try in a few weeks and see how it goes.

[onondaga]

I'm not sure if you were commenting on my reply. I said that wrinkling or frosting are thermal indicators. Let me be a lot more specific:

Start with a clean mold and Lyman #2 alloy. Pouring 900 degree bullet alloy into a cold mold will result in a frosted booliit with wrinkles, wrinkles in a cold mold void are smooth surfaced if the alloy temp at the pour is 100 degrees or less above fluidus. Wrinkles in a cold mold void are frosted if the alloy is much more than 100 degrees above fluidus at the pour.

Pouring 600 degree bullet alloy into a 600 degree plus mold will cause frosting and maybe some prune face looking shrinkage upon cooling. Wrinkles in a hot mold void are frosty or porous.

Pouring 600 degree boolit alloy into a 500 degree mold gets a nice boolit the first time.

Those are pretty extreme examples but you could prove them right in front of your face pretty much every time you tried them. The verbiage is specifically laid out and should be read carefully.



Gary

[JeffinNZ]

I clean exactly as you described. Dish wash liquid, tooth brush, boiling water BUT then I dry/preheat the mould be sitting atop the lead pot while the alloy is melting. I get near perfect bullets from the first pour.

[insanelupus]

onondaga,

Okay, I understand now what you were meaning. I would agree with your assessment and my normal method is to get the mould and melt up to temp, typically, when the bullets cast out frosted (and I preheat the moulds to begin with) once bullets will frost a time or two, I allow the mould a few minutes to cool slightly, trim the heat on the melt, and usually end up with great bullets. Especially if I've used the Lectra-motive degreaser first. (I still prefer using the detergent over the degreaser for economy reasons, hince the original cause for my post).

We'll see what happens the next time around.

[onondaga]

That sounds fine. Sometimes when a mold gets too hot from my cadence or too much pre-heat, I will dump the boolits from it and hold the mold handles open with one hand and swing the thing like a fan. I have clunked myself on the head doing this so be careful.

Some posters have mentioned that they use a small manicure fan to cool their molds when they get too hot. That makes more sense than clunking your head.

I don't use the damp towel on the bench as some recommend as a personal choice. I have tried the towel but have over cooled molds that way and upset my cadence, I find air cooling more predictable for myself.

Gary

[montana_charlie]

Pouring 600 degree boolit alloy into a 500 degree mold gets a nice boolit the first time.
I liked your entire explanation. I had never heard it put quite that clearly.
I picked out this one sentence because I have a question ...

When you see the "nice boolit" produced by that temperature combination, will it usually be frosted ... or not?

CM

[onondaga]

Thanks Charlie, once in a while I hit I hit the words right. I used to be a tech writer.

Yes, my boolits are slightly frosted and that is intentional. You can get visually used to a certain frost level and use that visual as a quality control on your work. The slight even frost gets me the best fill out and a texture that has a superior hold with tumble lube.

Personally, if my boolits are dropping shiny, I worry they are undersize and it is also a sign to me to speed up my cadence.

Gary

[shotman]

Kroil yea I know the OLD farts dont want to change. But they use a computer and dont tell anyone .

[357shooter]

Agree with the mould temp comments. Using a flat-base kitchen thermometer inserted into a cavaity can help figure it out. If the mould has more than 2 cavities, insert it into a middle or inner one. For aluminum test out preheating it 400-420 degrees, if not-aluminum test preheating to 380.

See how that works out, then adjust up or down to get keepers from the start.

[montana_charlie]

Personally, if my boolits are dropping shiny, I worry they are undersize and it is also a sign to me to speed up my cadence.Each caster gets to decide what is 'optimum' for his bullets. But lead (the metal) says 'optimum' by having a shiny surface.

If I get one that is slightly frosted (like yours) I don't discard it. If it passes in all other respects, it's still considered a match quality bullet.
But, the frost tells me that I can slow down a little bit.

I load big, as-cast bullets, thumb-seated in fireformed brass. So, if a bullet is undersized I will notice it immediately ... if weighing didn't kick it out, already.

Thanks for your reply ...

CM

[bearcove]

Use kroil instead of wd--40. Wd-40 drys and leaves a residue that is harder to remove. kroil doesn't even need to be removed

[mold maker]

Kroil yea I know the OLD farts dont want to change. But they use a computer and dont tell anyone .

I've always had good luck with Dawn and boiling water. That said, I am going to try the Kroil. Another option is always welcome.
Yep, I'm one of them "OLD FARTS", but that's a good thing. If I weren't, I'd be pushing up daisies. Besides, I used to be a "YOUNG" one.

[ColColt]

Tar Heels never grow old!! I grew up in Charlotte but left it for the mountains of TN 35 years ago.