Help me decide on a 9mm mold

[heavyd]

I need a mold for 9mm. I will be shooting these out of a glock 17 or Sig P226 for IPSC. My primary concerns are soft recoil, reliability, and accuracy would obviously be nice.

These will be light loads that barely meet 125 power factor. If I go with the 115 grain molds then I will have to push the bullet 1125fps or so and may get leading.

I am considering the Saeco #922 mold. This is the 115gr 9mm RN Bevel Base. However, if I order through Midway, it may take up to 90 days for me to get the mold. Any other suggestions? Other mold makers? Designs?

Thank you

[Cherokee]

I am having good results with two Lee moulds: 356-120 TC and 356-125 2R. Both are availabel in 6 cavity, are easy to cast and have proven to shoot good for me in my 9mm and Super 38's. Until I obtained these, I was using Lyman 356402 TC but it is not as accurate as the 120 TC or 125 RN. So far, the 120 TC shows the most promise in my guns. All my moulds are conventional lube grooves. YMMV

Will you be replacing your Glock factory barrel with one for cast bullets ?

[GRUMPA]

Personally if it were me I would jump on over to the boolit exchange in this forum and just ask for different types and see which works the best for you. Heck theirs lots of friendly casters out their willing to give a helping hand. Pssst it's in the swappin and trading section.

[9.3X62AL]

The Lee 120 TC is a GREAT mould design in 9mm. The mould casts fat enough for me to size @ .357" in 92/6/2, and they shoot wonderfully in 3 different 9mm pistols. One potential advantage a TC design may have over a RN is more sidewall or drive band to better engage the fast rifling twists encountered in many 9mm barrels.

[prickett]

I need a mold for 9mm. I will be shooting these out of a glock 17 or Sig P226 for IPSC. My primary concerns are soft recoil, reliability, and accuracy would obviously be nice.

These will be light loads that barely meet 125 power factor. If I go with the 115 grain molds then I will have to push the bullet 1125fps or so and may get leading.

I am considering the Saeco #922 mold. This is the 115gr 9mm RN Bevel Base. However, if I order through Midway, it may take up to 90 days for me to get the mold. Any other suggestions? Other mold makers? Designs?

Thank you

For soft shooting, you can't beat the Lee 358-105-SWC. I know it feeds OK in the P226, don't know about the Glock.

I ended up also buying the Lee 356-120-TC and beagle and size to .358" as it is the only bullet contour that feeds in all my 9's.

[MtGun44]

+1 on what Al said. 356-120TC has been very good for me. Used a 2 cav for a while, it was
so good I upgraded to a 6 cavity.

Bill

[heavyd]

Will you be replacing your Glock factory barrel with one for cast bullets ?

No. I planned on snaking the bore every 100 rounds or so and keeping a close eye on it.

[turbo1889]

Personally, I would recommend you get yourself an Accurate Molds(.com) 35-135A mold in the gas check variant. Or if you prefer any of his other 9mm compatible molds that you think may be more to your liking, just order it in the gas check variation. All of his molds (except stuff over 50-cal) can be ordered in either GC or PB version. 9mm molds ordered in the GCed variant have a shank instead of the bottom drive band that takes the gas check size normally used for 357-mag.

For the 9mm I have found that using a GCed boolit makes a huge difference in the ability to quickly and easily get a load to perform without a lot of fuss. All of his molds are custom to cut to the diameter you specify so you will need to know the internal bore dimensions of your guns before you order (I suggest ordering a mold size 0.001" over the major groove diameter on which ever one of your guns has a larger diameter on this measurement). Also all of his molds have at least a 0.18" flat meplat on the nose so if you have a 9mm that doesn't like hollow points then that flat on the nose is probably going to mess you up but if your gun doesn't have a problem with HP factory loads then you should be fine. The reason I say that is because I don't have the same 9mm guns as you do.

A GCed boolit design should also help you out with shooting lead in a Glock factory barrel.

[z4lunch]

I shoot a vintage Ideal 356402. It weighs in at 135, with straight ww. I primarily shoot these in my Glock 22 wih a 9mm KKM conversion barrel. Stock recoil spring.
Steve

[Ausglock]

G'day All. I shoot the Lee 358-105-SWC in a G34 with the factory barrel.
4.2gr W231 is a very accurate load in my gun.
feeds flawlessly.

[bhn22]

You might consider a heavier bullet too, there is more than one way to make your power factor. Check out the reloading boards on Brian Enos, and see what these guys are using. They'll talk power factor with you all day long. Personally, I don't think I'd use 115 grain bullets because you have to push them too fast to make your factor. Some guys are using specially designed bullets weighing up to 160 gr. for IPSC.

[theperfessor]

Well, I've found the Lee 358-125RF sized to .358 over 6.5 to 7.0 grs Blue Dot works great out of my HiPower. Don't know how it would work in your guns but I'd be glad to send you a few to test.

[Jailer]

Mihec still has some 2 cavity 359-125 molds in stock. They work good in my 22 with a 9mm conversion barrel. They are also a bit on the large size at .359 if you need to experiment with boolit size for your Glock.

http://www.mp-molds.com/shopping/pgm-more_information.php?id=16&=SID

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b180/Jailer/posting%20pics/9mmpentaHP.jpg

[seagiant]

Hi,
Hard to beat a RCBS 09-124 cn double cavity!

[MtGun44]

GC is entirely unnecessary in any pistol, including magnums at max velocity, if a good
boolit design, properly fitted with a good lube is used. Not that a GC won't work, just
entirely unnecessary expense and extra effort.

Bill

[turbo1889]

GC is entirely unnecessary in any pistol, including magnums at max velocity, if a good
boolit design, properly fitted with a good lube is used. Not that a GC won't work, just
entirely unnecessary expense and extra effort.

Bill

I used to think that too, until I actually tried GC designs in troublesome handgun cartridges such as the 9mm, 357-Sig, and 400-Corbon. Using a GCed design has also simplified loading for the 10mm as well but not nearly so much as the previously mentioned three cartridges. I have heard it makes a word of difference in the 40-S&W as well but I refuse to have anything to do with that particular cartridge so I don't have any personal experience with it.

I never said a GC design was something you have to have for such cartridges, rather a was pointing out that a GCed boolit makes it a whole lot easier to get loads to perform without a lot of fuss and thus for a beginner a GCed design is what I recommend for those cartridges because the beginner is far less likely to get frustrated with having problems with the load. With a GCed design in such cartridges so long as the boolit is big enough for the barrel of their gun and its got some kind of half way decent lube on it is going to work fairly well without any fuss. I cannot say the same for PB bullets in those cartridges and it usually takes some fiddling around with the load to get it to perform.

From my own personal experience high pressure, small case capacity, semi-auto handgun cartridges (9mm anyone?) are the cartridges that benefit the very most from the use of a GCed design compared to a PB boolit. With magnum revolver and most rifle cartridges I have found I can use PB boolits with excellent results primarily because there is enough room in those cartridges to get some COW filler between the powder and the boolit base which in my experience often provides better protection for the base of the boolit then a gas check. With the small capacity semi-auto cartridges you simply don't have the space to spare for using COW filler and thus using a GCed design is the next best thing.

Yes, I have built effective and accurate loads for the 9mm, 10mm, 400-Corbon, and even the 357-Sig which used a PB boolit and no COW filler but it didn't come easily and I had to fiddle with the load and try different powders, different lubes, different alloys, and different charge levels to get loads that met my performance expectations in terms of demanding accuracy and peak velocity while leaving the bore shinny clean regardless of how many rounds were fired.

Thus I recommend a GCed design to the beginner for such cartridges. I am far less likely to recommend a GCed design to a beginner for a revolver cartridge and even less likely to recommend a GCed design to a beginner for a rifle cartridge. This was not my original thoughts on the matter since everything I had been told was the exact opposite of this. It took a while for actual real world experience to deprogram all the book learning I started out with the real world experience ultimately didn't support.

In conclusion, I’m not trying to argue with you personally MtGun44. Rather I am questioning the entire conventional school of thought that your reply represents which is backwards of what I have found to be true through experience. Conventional wisdom would say that GCed designs are most needed in rifles, sometimes needed in magnum revolvers, and not needed in semi-auto handgun cartridges. I put forth what I have found through experience is that the exact opposite is true and that conventional wisdom has it backwards especially when one takes into consideration the use of flowing granular fillers such as COW in cast boolit rifle loads and some magnum revolver loads as well which in my experience actually does a better job then a gas check.

[fecmech]

If IPSC is your primary focus I would be more inclined towards 147's or heavier for softer felt recoil. A 147@ about 850 fps gets you the 125 power factor and that's easily done at fairly low pressures. That combined with the relatively low velocity should negate any leading problems. Somewhere between 3.1-3.5 grs of WSF should put you in the ballpark.

[garym1a2]

Lots of shooting means 4 or 6up molds.

[fecmech]

I never said a GC design was something you have to have for such cartridges, rather a was pointing out that a GCed boolit makes it a whole lot easier to get loads to perform without a lot of fuss and thus for a beginner a GCed design is what I recommend for those cartridges because the beginner is far less likely to get frustrated with having problems with the load. With a GCed design in such cartridges so long as the boolit is big enough for the barrel of their gun and its got some kind of half way decent lube on it is going to work fairly well without any fuss. I cannot say the same for PB bullets in those cartridges and it usually takes some fiddling around with the load to get it to perform.

Turbo--I can understand your logic for ease of load development using GC's but IPSC is an ammo hog and what time you might save in load development will be lost applying GC's forever and along with that the additional cost of GC's. Loading the 9MM to the OP's power level is not that difficult IMO.

[MtGun44]

No argument. GCs work. BUT I still contend that they are NOT necessary. Workable, yes.
Useful for problem guns as an easy fix. YES. Necessary, NO. To each his own, I just want
to help dispel the common notion that magnum pistols need gas checks. They do not NEED
them as a rule, but many sources essentially sell that viewpoint.

I dislike the expense and fiddling with GCs and have never found a pistol or revolver yet (and
I have loaded for MANY in the last 45 yrs) that would not work just fine at full power with a
plain base of good design, properly fitted and with a good lube.

Just want to make sure that newbies understand that they don't have to purchase a GC design
because their gun says "MAGNUM" on the side of the barrel.

Bill

[turbo1889]

. . . Just want to make sure that newbies understand that they don't have to purchase a GC design
because their gun says "MAGNUM" on the side of the barrel.

Bill

I agree completely. In fact I have had much better luck with PB boolits in 357-mag and 44-mag then in 9mm. 357-Sig is the worst of all that I have had experience with so far; the 357-mag is much, much, much easier to get a PB boolit to work in then the 357-Sig. The revolvers with "MAGNUM" on the side of the barrel are pretty plain base friendly. As I said I am of the opinion based on my experience that there is more of a reason to use GCed boolit design in small case capacity, high-pressure, semi-auto cartridges then either revolver cartridges or rifle cartridges. I would even be inclined to the position that revolver cartridges including the magnums are generally the most plain base friendly of all since I am usually using COW filler in the rifle cartridges to get the PB boolits to perform and that usually isn't the case in the revolver cartridges although it can be used to advantage in them as well.

[heavyd]

Thank you for your reply's. I am not considering a GC, as that will add too much cost for the large quantity I will be shooting. I generally shoot 500+ rounds per week. That also means I need at least a 4 cavity and would like to stear away from Lee molds. In my experience, the Lee's just can't cast tens of thousands of bullets without falling apart.

I guess it sounds like I need to stick with a 147 grain around 850fps in order to meet power factor and keep leading to a minimum. Any suggestion on a 147 round nose or other well-feeding bullet style, in 4+ cavity, that will last a long time?

Thank you

[fecmech]

Lyman makes a 4 cav 147 and Saeco makes a couple different bullets in that range. Our own BABore makes excellent molds in the 136 gr range for 9MM http://www.brp.castpics.net/P1.html

[MtGun44]

You can shoot the Lee 356 120 TC at full power with good accy and zero leading. Only need
a touch 1000 fps to make minor, very doable. Big enough diam, ordinary air cooled wwts
and NRA 50-50 lube will do it. Works in my HP, Sigs, Keltech, P38, Beretta, etc. no leading.

Go back and read Al and the perfesser again, same story. No magic speed to stay under to
stop leading.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=161&pictureid=2344

Interesting that .357 SIG is harder to get working than .357 Mag, wonder what the issue is?
Less lube in the boolit designs?

I know that the typical 357SIG is 125gr and typical .357 mag is 158, but I drive 158 and 165
PB at "book numbers" of ~1500-1600 fps (actual is probably more like 13-1400, never broke out
the chrono on those particular loads).

Hodgdon .357 Mag data:

158 Hornady XTP 16.7 H110 1591
170 GR. SIE JHC 15.5 H110 1497

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=161&pictureid=929




Bill

[NHlever]

Compared to revolver loads I am new to the pistol rounds, but historically I have found that if I stay at the same weight, or slightly heavier when I move to cast loads I can get good results. I like the TC designs best, but certainly try all the other shapes I have available (several) in any new auto pistol that comes my way. Good luck, and have fun with it.

[MtGun44]

Lee 6 cav will cast 500 in one session with no difficulty. These are entirely different animals
from 2 cav Lees. 356 120 TC 6 cav is relatively cheap and is a high production tool, use
Bullplate lube and it will run smooth, fast and last pretty darned well. Scrub with toothbrush
and Comet in the cavities to clean and deburr, do not smoke it, lube with Bullplate and
you will be turning out quantities quickly.

If you want more quality, look at the MP choices in 6 cav. Excellent quality, but more limited
choices, short runs of custom designs, mostly a custom batch shop, but best possbile
quality in the molds.

Understand IPSC, have shot it for 31 yrs, not so serious anymore but fully understand
the quantity issue. Personally, although I have been a caster since middle 1970s, I never
cast my IPSC boolits, purchased only - just didn't have the time to support this level
of shooting. Also, the quality required was met by commercial, but for more accy and
control in my other pistols, I cast all my own boolits.

4 cav Lyman 356402 maybe viable, too, but very noticably slower than the 6 cav molds.
I started with Lee 2 cav 356 120 TC, switched to 6 cav after proven success, to turn out large
quantities (~300-500) per batch, but these last me months, not days or weeks.

Bill

[michiganvet]

I chose the Lyman 356637 147gr fn but never got around to using it because I found a box of 500 online from SNS that are hard cast, already sized and have some kind of blue lube. They look identical to the Lyman mold and were very reasonable. I would suggest an after market barrel for cast boolits in the glock because the factory one is not rifled but is polyhegonal inside

[Ausglock]

The 357Sig round is a real doozy with the 358-105-SWC sized 357. I fire these out of the G35 with HPB barrel.

Great light little load. 4.5gr WSF in resized 40 cases with WSP.

[dudel]

+1 on the Lee 356-120 TC The 6 cavity block realy produces lots of boolits.

[Lloyd Smale]

best 9mm bullet ive found for accuracy in all of my 9s is the rcbs 121 round nose. There is three versions of this so be careful. Theres the 121 round nose and a 115 grain version that are both excellent bullets. but theres a version called the taget bullet that has kind of a shoulder on it that is supposidly there to cut a clean round hole in the target. Problem is that bullets bad that your lucky if you even hit the target.

[skeet1]

I also shoot the 358-105 from my Glock 17 and it functions without a hitch. Heavyd you said you wanted soft recoil and this boolit will do it for you with good accuracy.

Ken

[garym1a2]

Lee 6 cav will cast 500 in one session with no difficulty. These are entirely different animals
from 2 cav Lees. 356 120 TC 6 cav is relatively cheap and is a high production tool, use
Bullplate lube and it will run smooth, fast and last pretty darned well. Scrub with toothbrush
and Comet in the cavities to clean and deburr, do not smoke it, lube with Bullplate and
you will be turning out quantities quickly.

If you want more quality, look at the MP choices in 6 cav. Excellent quality, but more limited
choices, short runs of custom designs, mostly a custom batch shop, but best possbile
quality in the molds.

Understand IPSC, have shot it for 31 yrs, not so serious anymore but fully understand
the quantity issue. Personally, although I have been a caster since middle 1970s, I never
cast my IPSC boolits, purchased only - just didn't have the time to support this level
of shooting. Also, the quality required was met by commercial, but for more accy and
control in my other pistols, I cast all my own boolits.

4 cav Lyman 356402 maybe viable, too, but very noticably slower than the 6 cav molds.
I started with Lee 2 cav 356 120 TC, switched to 6 cav after proven success, to turn out large
quantities (~300-500) per batch, but these last me months, not days or weeks.

Bill

For the Lee 356 120 TC What OL would you recommend for this round. I just recently got the 6up mold for my Glock 22 with the Storm Lake 9mm conversion barrel and can not find good reference material on lengths. I plan to use unique and make a mild load for practice till I get used to the gun.

The mold drops like a deam and it only took a few hours to cast 800+ bullets

[MtGun44]

Far from home for the next week, no access to LOA info. PM me in a week and I will get the
info and send it to you, or post it here.

Bill

[Cherokee]

garym1a2 - My OAL with the Lee 356-120 TC in my match barrel with tight chambers in 1.053" for reliable feeding. You may find this does or does not work in your gun. I really like this bullet in 9mm and 38 Super.

[bobthenailer]

IMO from years of experince with several 9mm,s & 38 super,s & cast bullets the tc bullet designes are more accurate than the rn and the heaver bullets are the most accurate I have the RCBS 124 rn gc. and the Saeco # 384- 122gr rn , #377- 122 tc bb and the #929- 145gr swc bb which is the most accurate from every pistol with the #384 being the least accurate of the moulds that I have .
The 9mm and 38 super are alot more particular than the 45 acp or a revolver when it comes to finding a accurate load with cast bullets ,but it is possible ! the best ive done was 1 1/2 for 30 shots at 25 yards from a ransom rest in a nowlen barreled 38 super with the # 929