Best group with H&R/NEF ?

[dualsport]

That's it, what is the best you've done accuracy wise with one of these little wonders? I'm working with a couple barrels but have no bragging material yet. I'm curious how others have done. Hunting or benchrest accuracy, both have their place. Pictures? Oh yeah, we like pictures.

[onondaga]

I have an NEF SB2 Ultra with .223 Rem. and .500 S&W Mag barrels. The .223 was not challenging to get sub MOA accuracy but the .500 was . The .500 continually had first cold shot high disease, 2-3 inches high first shot then a nice 4 shot below. Polishing the bore illiminated the problem altogether. The .500 with my favorite cast hunting load regularly groups less than 1 inch @50 yards for my grandson or myself.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/09deer.jpg

Aftermarket stock.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/loadsheet.jpg

My pet load.

Gary

[dualsport]

Wow. Nice buck, I wonder what the other side looks like? I've used a lot of Lee REAL boolits, shoot good in my .50 cal. muzzleloaders, from about a 48 to 66" twist range. Never thought of loading one in a cartridge gun, but then I don't go past .458 with cartridges. That's a heck of a lot of wallop, my .444 and 45-70 barrels kick me plenty hard enough. I have two .223 barrels, an Ultra light youth and a standard. No 1 moa yet, but I'm getting in on a new group buy here for a .225 62 gr little wonder that may change that. What is the twist on that Ultra?

[onondaga]

I never checked the twist in the .500 but the .223 is 1:12.

The entrance wound on the deer is right at the end of the fore stock, exit wound was about 1/2 cup missing on the other side of the neck. Here is the ballistics on my .500 load:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/500Bal.jpg
this is not a heavy or hard kicking load at all and kicks less than a 30-30.

I hope to get the .308 Win. Bull Barrel soon also.

Gary

[NickSS]

I have several handy rifles and barrels for same. My 223 unltra hunter is as accurate as any bolt action I have owned. Sub MOA groups are the norm with good bullets. My 308 win barrel I have has not done that well but I am down with a couple of loads to near 1 MOA with it and have hopes of getting it better. My 38-55 with iron sights will shoot into 1.5 inches for 10 shots at 100 yards all day long. My disappointment is a feather weights 243 with a plastic stock. I only get around 2 moa with it but have worked on the rifle with some tricks from the Greybeard site and hope that it improves next time I shoot it. I love my 357 mag barrel but it only gives me around 3 moa groups. My 45-70 barrel gives me nice 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards fairly regularly. So that is about it for my imput except I have one of the 45 colt/410 barrels. It makes a good shotgun barrel but as a rifle it is a total loss unless I use blown out 303 british brass then I can get decent accuracy with it. The long jump is too much for the 45 colt to make and give accurate shooting.

[kbstenberg]

if I could add a question to the opener.
For those that get good accuracy. Did you go through the initial break-in routine before starting load development? I have a 223 which I just started shooting an my groups are depressing to the point of wanting to sell the gun. An my cast bullets accuracy is even worse.

[high standard 40]

I have an NEF in 45-70 and it has been the biggest challenge of any rifle I've ever purchased. I've tried 300 gr JHP with every powder I had and accuracy was horrible. I then tried the Lee 405gr cast bullet with equally dismal results. I did all of the accuracy enhancements suggested on the GB forum and also added several ounces of lead in the buttstock to help control recoil. Now I'm in the process of trying loads with a group buy mold purchased here......350 gr..... and I'm now able to get my best, most consistent groups yet......about 4 MOA. I have taken a few deer with it but I am very careful not to take a shot beyond the rifle's limitations. I usually welcome a challenge but this rifle is really trying my patience. I sometimes consider throwing in the towel on this one but I hesitate to sell this *** to anybody. I just wouldn't feel right about it. I hear many brag on their Handi's accuracy and all I can say is I'm jealous. Many years ago, I had the pleasure of sighting in an H&R in 30-30 and that rifle would produce sub MOA groups all day long so I know there are some good ones. I have heard good reports on the Leverevolution rounds but looking at the ballistics, I just don't think I'd care much for the recoil they are sure to produce. I'm still looking for that "Magic" bullet for mine.

[onondaga]

The factory did their free trigger job on mine as I requested when I sent it in for the accessory barrel, that helped and they reduced the pull from 6 to 3.5 lbs. I use an 'O" ring between the fore stock and the barrel at the fastening screw, this floats the barrel.

I have polished my bores using a Hoppe's bore snake and an abrasive chrome polish paste wax. A teaspoon in the chamber then 10 pulls, repeat this adding paste every 10 pulls for a total 60 pulls. then take 30 more pulls with no additional paste. This polished my bore nicely slick and completely ended my previous first shot high problem and also diminished my overall group sizes very well.

The NEF rifles are not a premium rifle and the bore finishes are definitely not match grade. Polish your bore and try again.

I am convinced that the only really solid scope mount for the NEF is the Dednutz one piece.

Gary

[tdoor4570]

All are NEF's 243win less than 1/2 in at 100, 223 Rem .375 at 100, 45-70 .625 at 100, 444Marlin .750 at 100 , 30-30 converted to 30-40 Krag .750 at 100. Never had a NEF that shot worse than 1" at 100 yds, with good handloads, I don't shoot factory ****:-P

[olafhardt]

My 500 s&w has shot one shot 1/2"group with every load at every distance I have tried it with. What a rifle!!!

[Fishman]

My 500 s&w has shot one shot 1/2"group with every load at every distance I have tried it with. What a rifle!!!

Wow that's some shooting! What's your secret? Try as I might my h&r 20 gauge just sprays it's pattern. It'll barely keep a one shot 30" group at 25 yds :(

[dualsport]

All are NEF's 243win less than 1/2 in at 100, 223 Rem .375 at 100, 45-70 .625 at 100, 444Marlin .750 at 100 , 30-30 converted to 30-40 Krag .750 at 100. Never had a NEF that shot worse than 1" at 100 yds, with good handloads, I don't shoot factory ****:-P

That's some extreme accuracy there. It sounds like you've figured these things out big time. I'd be very interested in knowing more about your loads. My best efforts have not come close to those results, yet. I have thought about rechambering my old 157 Topper 30-30 to 30-40 Krag, just for fun.

[nanuk]

My 500 s&w has shot one shot 1/2"group with every load at every distance I have tried it with. What a rifle!!!

I have a pellet rifle that will do that also!

(farthest I've shot it has been 10 yds, tho)

[white eagle]

I had a Nef ultra varmint
w/a bull barrel cambered in 204 Rug
that would shoot very very small groups
made one hole larger small
I sold it after getting poor performance on coyote
but they are very capable shooters
all I have left is a Ultra slug hunter
groups like so
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v730/kempobb/abnewtarget.jpg

[hunter2]

Have a 357 that shoots a group like my bird gun! Wondering if I will ever buy another one...

[cajun shooter]

onondaga, Please tell me how you illuminated your barrel and received better groups. I have been shining this bore light down the barrel since reading your posting. The groups have not improved. Maybe my light is weak and does not have enough lumen's. How many lumen's did your light have? A lost Cajun that can't do the barrel.

[dualsport]

So you have been shining a bore light down what bore? I'd guess he meant to say 'eliminated', maybe a small brain fart? Anyway, he explains pretty clearly about polishing the bore with a bore snake and chrome polish. Sounds worth a try, I'll get me one and see. Cajun, I'll bet you're a 45-70 man, right or wrong? Using BP? I'm always looking for a good load for my H&R 45-70 and would like to try BP in it. It'd sure be an easy one to clean.

[onondaga]

I did get a picture of one of one of my other single shots recently when I was illuminating it with a flashlight.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/CHBore.jpg

This one is my Remington Spartan in 7.62X39mm, I polished the bore before even shooting it new. My grandson will be using this single shot for Deer in the fall.

The bore polishing isn't tough at all, just takes a little time, an abrasive polishing paste and a Bore Snake.

I fixed my spelling in reply#2 for you!

Gary

[cajun shooter]

I hope you understand that I was just having a little fun. I was not by any means using something that I do everyday to belittle you. I just could not pass it up. I am a person who lives in South Louisiana and has few days with out a joke or two. It helps with all the BS going on with our country. Dualsport, to answer your question about being a 45-70 man, that is very true. 63 grains of Goex Cartridge BP with a .30 wad and then the Saeco 745 seated all the way to the bands is my favorite. It requires a compression die and you must anneal your case necks. The annealing of the case neck is one of the most important parts of coming up with a great load for the 45-70. Starline brass first, Winchester second, and RP third. The RP brass is for my shooting the worst brass out there and splits at every chance it gets. Another good load that works is the RCBS 45-500-BPS with 62 grains of the same powder. The powder has been discontinued but is still out there. The Goex Express or the Swiss 1 1/2 will also work well. The stock H&R will ring your brain with these loads and are alright if fired in a Buffalo Classic which I owned at one time. The mercury recoil reducer makes it a shooter. I was a trained sniper with schools and believe in rifle break in. I go through a break in on all my rifles.

[PacMan]

8 shot 50 yd. group i shot today with 200 gr LBT FN Gc using a heavy does of 2400. Avg. 1773FPS.

[DakotaElkSlayer]

My 1996 RMEF Ultra Rifle in .35 Whelen just may be the most accurate gun I own. This spring I was working up loads with it using Sierra 225gr. bullets and Reloader 15. As I passed "max" load, according to the Sierra manual, the group SHRUNK. The three shot group was 2695fps, 2704fps, and 2705fps and the group was about 1/2". This was off of a portable bench and an MTM rifle rest. I LOVE this rifle!

Jim

[Catshooter]

The best I have done with my .45-70 was an inch and an eigth group at 100 yards. This was off the bench, with a scope. Load was 15 grains of Universal Clays under a 365 grain group buy boolit.

My NEF in 225 Winchester (was a .223) will do better. I got 5/8 & 3/4 inch groups with 60 grain Noslers at just over 3200 fps.

They can be wonderful rifles.


Cat

[ASSASSIN]

Here is a custom barreled H&R in 357 Maximum that did pretty well...


http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z132/HonkerHunter_photos/009-5.jpg


http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z132/HonkerHunter_photos/021-5.jpg


http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z132/HonkerHunter_photos/022-5.jpg


http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z132/HonkerHunter_photos/029-3.jpg


ASSASSIN

[dualsport]

Nice. Thanks for the pictures.

[JIMinPHX]

I've gotten a .223 Handi Rifle to shoot 3/8" groups with 3 different kinds of j-words. Slower than average powders, bench resting on the receiver & not over tightening the front stock screw made all the difference in the world. I haven't had very good luck trying to get a 7mm Express barrel to shoot well. The condition of the bore in that one is not that great & I probably don't have the right powders.

[dualsport]

To a lot of people the Handis are 'junk'. Some of us though, get a kick out of making an inexpensive or old gun shoot well. Especially cb shooters. I could have a new Savage or Remington that shoots 1/2" out of the box, or thereabouts. Just doesn't appeal to me. Sounds like you guys have your Handis dialed in pretty good.

[JesterGrin_1]

ASSASSIN I have to say that is a neat looking H&R.

[PacMan]

Assian that is a nice rifle and great groups.
It is now illegal to post such photos without more info.

Who done the barrel work and what bullets are you shooting at what velocity.
That will do for starters.
Hey man
Thanks

[fcvan]

I have no idea what my NEF Classic Carbine in 45 colt will do, I'm still waiting to pick it up. California (ugh) has a 10 wait even on rifles. I will send the Carbine for a re-barrel for the 32" 45-70 which is around $120 plus shipping etc. That will make for a nice combo. I like to lines of the carbine with the straight stock over the semi pistol grip - kinda reminds me of the carbine rifles of old. The tips from Gary on bore polishing will come in handy. Elimination of the first shot problem he described should illuminate the accuracy potential of the rifle. Sorry guys, I couldn't resist. Frank

[onondaga]

After you get the Elimination and Illumination taken care of, make sure you are happy with your trigger pull before sending the rifle off for an accessory barrel fitting. When I sent my rifle in for an accessory barrel I put a note on the order form, "The trigger pull feels excessively heavy, this rifle will be used in big bore competitions, please lighten the trigger pull as much as is practical." They sure did, and that service is FREE!

Gary

[dualsport]

Today my son shot my Handi 45-70 offhand at 100 yds. Shooting at a human silhouette type target he put 2 in the X ring, several 9s and 10s too. It wears a cheap 4X scope in SeeThru mounts. The load was the Lee 405 PB over a 2ff duplex load. Now he wants to borrow it for beer season. (We hunt with a deer tag and a bear tag both in our pocket, so I call it beer season.)

[mroliver77]

I have a few NEF/H&R including an 30-30 "Topper". Most shoot well. I picked up a .357 barrel a while back and it sucks! A .223 heavy barrel I got 20 years ago shoots very well. It will shoot sub 1" repeatedly with some groups dropping to 5/8". Shooting off a bench being very careful is one thing. Field shooting is another. These guns are susceptible to stressing and moving poi if the sling is used. With a bipod shots will wander IF one is not very careful about how he "leans" on the gun. They are great inexpensive "handy" guns but do have their quirks.
Jay

[fcvan]

Gary, good point on the free trigger job, I had intended to request that when I send the gun in for the re-barrel. I do plan on shooting the 45 colt carbine a bit before making a judgement on the trigger pull. We'll certainly post our progress as time progresses. Frank

[Chicken Thief]

I don't care who you are, that's funny right there;-)



Wow that's some shooting! What's your secret? Try as I might my h&r 20 gauge just sprays it's pattern. It'll barely keep a one shot 30" group at 25 yds :(

[David todd]

Two years ago I shot a 3 shot, 1" group offhand at 100 yards with a friend's Buffalo classic in 45/70 .
I then hit the 200 meter chicken three times with it, a VERY nice rifle!
The load was 70 grains of compressed FFG Goex, 48 grain( IIRC) cast Postell , 20:1 lead/tin mix, Mathews lube recipe, and a federal LR primer.
Brass was made from 45/90 brass and shortened to just fit the chamber on fire forming, loads were not breech seated, but finished with an M die.
David

[dangerranger]

Dual sport, I have a few handis. of all of them the 3030 shoots cast best. concistantly 1 1/4" at 100yds. ocasionaly down to 3/4". with jacketed bullits the 22 hornet and the 223 will shoot under 1" always and 5/8" sometimes. but my bufalo classic is the most chalanging.first I had ignition problems,and a rough bore. I sent it back and they fixed that. but now the bore is tight.[new barrel.] so Im having to resize the bullits. also the new barrel is micro groove. so Ive cast some harder bullits to see is that works better. I tried 1 in 30 first, and 1 in 20. about 3" at 100yds is the best I could muster. I now have some loaded up in an alloy that I use in auto pistol. we will see how that works out.

Fcvan, my 45 colt carbine shot an 8" 10 shot group at 200yds using some cowboy loads I had on hand. since then Ive found that it likes bullits sized to 454. with a 300gr bullit I can keep three touching at 50yds. [ iron sights.] its a great short truck gun. DR

[nanuk]

dangerranger: When you say "microgroove" what do you mean?

my new H&R slugs (from what I can measure) .455/.459 8L&G

[dangerranger]

with 8 lands you have a micro groove barrel. its a marlin invention. very popular in 22lr. and center fire for jacketed bullits. it uses many shallow grooves instead of the traditional 4 or 6 deep grooves. others have said that with lead the bullit must better match the bore size, and harder alloy will work better. Ill know more in a couple of days. DR

[dualsport]

My 45-70 barrel is about 12 yrs. old, pre-Remington, if that matters. It's 8 groove, double checked it, it's .452/.459. Just eyeballing it, the lands are about 1/2 as wide as the grooves. Anybody have experience with gc vs. pb in these? I haven't tried a gc in mine but it seems like it might be the way to go with this 'modified' Micro-Groove job. (I think the true 'Micro Grooves' are 12 groove).

[nanuk]

after doing some reading and research, I think a full diameter boolit would work the best, as opposed to any bore riding style as they all have noses far to small for my rifle.

I've got an RCBS mould 500gr and a variety of Lee moulds, and I'm looking at the RanchDog moulds for a Loverin style boolit

[dangerranger]

My 45-70 barrel is about 12 yrs. old, pre-Remington, if that matters. It's 8 groove, double checked it, it's .452/.459. Just eyeballing it, the lands are about 1/2 as wide as the grooves. Anybody have experience with gc vs. pb in these? I haven't tried a gc in mine but it seems like it might be the way to go with this 'modified' Micro-Groove job. (I think the true 'Micro Grooves' are 12 groove).

I went back and looked at my notes and found that it is 12 groove, and measured .4550/.4565. I just got back from the range and got a chance to shoot the harder bullits against the 1 in 20. I shot 4 groups with each and the harder alloy was clearly 1/3 smaller groups.I sized them down to.457. best I could do with soft was2" best with the hard was just out of 1" average was 1 1/4". Ill play with seating a little but over all Im happy. DR

[ASSASSIN]

Here is a custom barreled H&R in 357 Maximum that did pretty well...


http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z132/HonkerHunter_photos/009-5.jpg


http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z132/HonkerHunter_photos/021-5.jpg


http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z132/HonkerHunter_photos/022-5.jpg


http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z132/HonkerHunter_photos/029-3.jpg


ASSASSIN


Hey Guys,

sorry to take so long in getting back here...

JesterGrin 1 - Thank You!

dwight hardy - I built the barrel and it is 1.062" in diameter / 25" long / stainless steel / 1-20" twist rate. The forend has been pillar and glass bedded and the trigger adjusted down to 2 lbs....

Here is the load used in the gun to shoot the targets posted -

CASE: R-P 357 Maximum

PRIMER: Remington 7 1/2

POWDER: Winchester 296 / 25.3 gr.

BULLET: Remington 158 gr. JHP

VELOCITY: 2,462 fps.


ASSASSIN

[dualsport]

Nice!

[fcvan]

I picked up my Classic Carbine in 45 Colt and have had a few trips to the range. The first trip out I loaded up the last 5 230 RN (Lee mold) that were lubed up. 10 grains of unique launched at 1300 fps. WOW! My order of ingots came in from the Captain (Thanks again, Kathy!) and I was able to mold up some 255 RF (Lee mold) which weighed out at 260. The next batch were 10.5 grains of unique for 1300 fps. WOW! (Again) and the next trip was 11.5 grains of unique for 1400 fps. ZERO leading so far with Rooster Red, primers just starting to flatten out. My next loads will be with 4227 to see how things go. Gary, the trigger is clean, crisp, and I feel no need to have it done. I have always wanted a single shot just for cast loads and am so jazzed by this rifle. Oh ya, I did feel compelled to play with a couple plinker loads. I launched a couple round ball loads (Lee mold, .454) at 900 fps, what fun! I also played with a couple 200 RN (Lee mold, conical for an 1858 Remington BP copy) and they launched nicely with no leading. I think the mold is .454 and the tapered base is either A) close to dimension or B) bumping up on launch. I think the 200 RN may be perfect for one of Pat Marlin's plain base gas checks. Brass is in the tumbler, lubrisizer heater is warming up, almost time to seat and crimp some more boolits. Frank

[John Boy]

Buffalo Classic (45-70) - vernier rear & globe foresight - 600yds - 5 shot group:
7" x 2.25" ... 3 holes that could be covered by a half dollar
2 witnesses - no pictures :-x

[Swampman]

That's it, what is the best you've done accuracy wise with one of these little wonders? I'm working with a couple barrels but have no bragging material yet. I'm curious how others have done. Hunting or benchrest accuracy, both have their place. Pictures? Oh yeah, we like pictures.

This little .30-30 would should sub-MOA anytime right out of the box. I've owned quite a few Handis that would do the same thing.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/Woodsman1956/NEF/100_2663.jpg

[Texantothecore]

H&R Buffalo classic in .45-70:

at 100 yards:
9 rounds .50 group
10th round opened up the group to .70. I guess it was a flyer. Shocked the heck out of me.

My eye doctor is a shooter and he gets it. We make small adjustments in my contact lenses until the target at the range is as clean as clean can be.

[TRG3]

Assassin...Looking at your targets reminds me of what I do for something to shoot at. I open up used Kleenex-type boxes with scissors by snipping from the clear plastic insert to each corner, open/trim them up, add flo orange squares cut/glued from a large poster board purchased from the Dollar Store (or from junk mail envelopes), flatten them with a cutting board for an hour while they dry, and then thumb tacked to the target board when ready to shoot. I make any needed notes on them and keep these on file for future reference which is really handy when several rifles/loads are involved. It's especially handy when determining which .22 ammo a new rifle prefers. Determine which rifle will make the trip, pull out the target, grab the appropriate ammo, and head for the range/woods.

[Buddy]

My 44mag has done a best of 2" @ 100yds with the Lee 310gr RFNGC sitting over max loads of H110. Kind of depessing considering my Dan Wesson 744VH8 will do 3" with the same load. I found one in the local gs this week in 280 Rem. It has a cheap Tasco 3x9 on it. They are asking $280 for it but since I still work there part time I can get it for way less than the asking price. I'm really considering this rifle. My 700BDL in 280 is pretty darned accurate and I have dies to load 'em up. Anyone shoot the 280 in a NEF?

[geargnasher]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_89094e597bd333b83.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1960)

Classic Carbine in .45 Colt with a 4 MOA red dot sight. Gun would probably do better but that's as good as I can shoot it right now. With ammo loaded for SAA and 255-grain boolits it grouped 3" consistently at 25 yards, but after trying nearly ten different boolits and as many powders, I finally put something together that it liked.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_89094e91f85d4b95c.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2373)

Here's the same load at 100 yards, with a card wad added under the boolit, the load is still compressed. The circle is 4" on the inside.

Gear

[Swampman]

I've owned Handi Rifles in most of the rimmed calibers, and they all shot MOA or less right out of the box. I've probably owned 5 of the .45-70s and they were all extremely accurate. I don't believe in breaking in a barrel, I just shoot them.

[Hammerhead]

Best I've ever shot with a Handi is 1-1/4" at 100 yards with a 30-30 barrel with Reflex sight and factory JSP ammo. Some very tiny (<1") 50 yard groups with the same barrel at 50 yards with 115 LRN handloads (Trail Boss and Magnus bullets).

Maybe I need to work out my .357 mag and my .45 Colt classic carbine a little more. My CC seems to love the 200 and 185 grain LSWC's designed for the .45 auto.

[DHB]

I've a 22 mag, one hole 50 yards, scoped and rested. A 243 one hole, scoped and rested. On the 22 mag, I shot 4 different groups with Win 40 gr solid point (all different lots) got a 3 round group you could cover with a quarter, to a 3 round group you could cover with a cigarette butt on end. The 243 shots factory Hornaday 100 gr., one hole (not cloverleaf, one hole).