Can to much Cream of Wheat be bad?

[shooting on a shoestring]

I've been experimenting with using Cream of Wheat as a filler in .45Colt. I've had trouble with leading from 454190 in my 7.5" Blackhawk. The barrel slugs .451 on the nose. Chamber mouths run .4513 to .4518. The gun shoots clean with 454424 and 452490 but has always leaded with 454190. I want to use the 454190 for 100yd bench rested, it seems to group better than the SWCs. I've tried Bullseye, 700x, PB, Unique, Blue Dot, AA#7, 2400, Lil'Gun, W296 and H4227. H4227 almost shot clean, but leaded the last 1 or 2 inches of the barrel just before the muzzle. I suppose I could get a shorter revolver and be fine with that load.

I began using Cream of Wheat with Blue Dot to keep the powder in place and provide some protection for the plain base bullet. It worked wonderfully. I've set up a second powder measure on the bench to dispense the Cream of Wheat. Now I'm wondering about abrasion. How much will Cream of Wheat accelerate forcing cone erosion, rifling wear, case mouth wear? Has anyone seen significant wear?

By the way, I've pretty well read this entire forum in the last several days. What a great site!

[9.3X62AL]

SoaS--

Welcome to the board! I can't help with affirmative answers to your questions concerning use of COW in fixed ammo, I've only tried it in C&B revolvers. I cannot see how COW would increase wear as you describe, but--again--I haven't tried it.

The "muzzle leading" you describe is often assigned to lube failure, but I'm not so sure in this case--#454190 has a pretty good lube capacity. Any loose spots in the barrel, esp. just behind the leading area? It sounds like the COW fixed it, so we might be beating a dead horse here.

[mag_01]

:coffee: ---I have used a filler in 45 Long Colt and have had good results-----45 Long Colt being a strait wall case is a plus for using filler. I don't like cow it smells burnt and flies all over the place as it is being shot. The best filler would be a shotgun filler like PSB but not having that I use a ground walnut (Pet supply store)for a filler---Cases are clean---gun is clean---filler acts as gas check and produced good groups on paper---Load was 6.5 Bull with 225rn as well as 200 swc and 6grs. with a 255swc. When using a filler reduce loads as fillers raise pressure. I don't feel the filler will cause wear but have no long term experience with it.------Mag------:castmine:

[Bass Ackward]

H4227 almost shot clean, but leaded the last 1 or 2 inches of the barrel just before the muzzle. I suppose I could get a shorter revolver and be fine with that load.

I began using Cream of Wheat with Blue Dot to keep the powder in place and provide some protection for the plain base bullet. It worked wonderfully. I've set up a second powder measure on the bench to dispense the Cream of Wheat. Now I'm wondering about abrasion. How much will Cream of Wheat accelerate forcing cone erosion, rifling wear, case mouth wear? Has anyone seen significant wear?

By the way, I've pretty well read this entire forum in the last several days. What a great site!


SOS,

You give several dimensions, but don't say what diameter you are sizing to. I suppose that you have an idea that you are blowing off your lube, thus your bullet is not sealing. Many ways to fix that, but filler is one method.

COW has been a recommendation for quite a while. I am sure that in all that time, if there was a negative to wear, someone would have pointed that out by now. And pressure would have to be a factor. I doubt that you are going to reaching any high levels using filler in 45 Colt.

And you are the man!!! We have a guy named BruceB that has a casting process that he prides himself on for speed, but not even he can cast bullets at 1100 fps! :grin:

[Scrounger]

:coffee: ---I have used a filler in 45 Long Colt and have had good results-----45 Long Colt being a strait wall case is a plus for using filler. I don't like cow it smells burnt and flies all over the place as it is being shot. The best filler would be a shotgun filler like PSB but not having that I use a ground walnut (Pet supply store)for a filler---Cases are clean---gun is clean---filler acts as gas check and produced good groups on paper---Load was 6.5 Bull with 225rn as well as 200 swc and 6grs. with a 255swc. When using a filler reduce loads as fillers raise pressure. I don't feel the filler will cause wear but have no long term experience with it.------Mag------:castmine:

I use the ground walnut shells to polish brass, and the job it does on it makes me leary of using it as a filler. It looks abravise to me. But I have no proof of that so I could be wrong. It would be nice if some capable person tested its use extensively and reported on it.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Dep. Al, I haven't considered loose spots in the barrel, but I don't think that's the trouble. I have seen leading from moderate to heavy depending on the load, at different places in the barrel. I've seen leading at and just past the forcing cone with the fast powders, light leading the lenght of the barrel with the mid-range powders, and only at the last inch or two with H4227. And, I've tried each powder from light to heavy (been trying to shoot this bullet for more than a year now).

Bass, As far as sizing, I've tried WW air cooled dropped at .453 and sized .452, WWAC'd .453 lubed in a .454 die. Then WW and range lead 50/50 cast at .454 quenched with water lubed in the .454 die, and some of the same sized .452.

I want to run this bullet at 1000 fps or just over.

I can shoot the SWCs cleanly with several loads, in WWac, 50/50 WW and range lead, as cast at .452, .454, sized to .452, sized to .454, just about any bullet size over .452 seems to work fine. The SWCs do have more lube capacity and I'm thinking that helps them out considerably. I may just be trying to get 454190 with its 2 small lube grooves to run faster than it should. Although I'm pleased with the Blue Dot/COW load, just seems I shouldn't have to use filler to get a bullet to perform, but it works.

My lube has been 50/50 candle wax/toilet ring with all my revolver bullets for several years. I'm going to try adding some auto transmission fluid to the lube and see if that helps.

By the way my most used load in this revolver is 7.5 gr Bullseye and 454424 in 50/50 WW/ range lead air cooled at .454. Shoots clean and tight at short ranges.

[shooter575]

Couple things.I have a Uberti Henry in 44-40. It had a loose spot in the barrel.It would lead bad in the last "past that spot.I relined to fix that.
100s of guys shooting COW filler in B/P in the N-SSA in revolvers,breech loading precusion carbines and Henrys and Spencers.Have not heard of any bad wear issues.Gritts are use the same way by many.[mosty rebs] As both are ceral grains they are softer than wallnut shells or even corncobs.
Lube could also cause this problem.Bowl wax is all oil based for last few decades.Easy check is to try some other lube as a test.I know your lube would cause me problems with BP loads.

[44man]

My WAG is that lube is the biggest problem with the size of your boolits. I think it might be too hard but have never fooled with that stuff. Why not just try a known good lube from all the info on this site? The wrong lube will cause leading and very poor accuracy.

[georgeld]

SoS:
I'd think your bullets and size's are about right.
But, the lube I'd be concerned about.

Clean that barrel to the metal, best I've found so far for bore build up
of any kind is Blue Wonder Gun Cleaner. Soak a brush with the goop'
ten strokes, ten minute break, ten more strokes and patch clean. IF
that don't do it, do it again and it will be. Make sure you oil it up real good
or else the bare metal will draw moisture from the air and flash rust it bad.
IF you do get a rust, use this stuff and clean it off, then OIL it good. It's not
the cleaner that causes the rust, it's the clean metal sucking up moisture.

I've got a k 38 that hasn't been cleaned for over 5000 rnds of cast. It has a
shiny bore. I only use Lee's Alox and run SWC's about 850-900fps.

Try the Alox in a clean bore and see what it does. Just might be your bore
isn't real slick yet too. maybe once it's clean to the metal. Try polishing it
some and see if that might not help matters.

Wish you luck with it, figure out the solution come back and tell us what
it was ok?

[Char-Gar]

Shoestring.... Here are my thoughts on the issue at hand:

1. I can't conceive of a circumstance whereby a 45 Colt round needs or can benefit much from a filler.

2. The fact that the leading is end the final several inches of the barrell, points to a lube problem.

3. Take a look at the bullet you listed, You will see the first two you listed carry more lube than the one you are having problems with.

4. Sound like your lube is rolling snake eyes

5. Toilet rings are not made from beeswax these days and are a poor source of material for bullet lubes. There is candle wax and there is candle wax..much of it is not worth a hoot as a bullet lube. Just calling something "candle wax" doesn't say anything about what it is made from. Unless the candle wax is primarily beeswax, I wouln't use it. If you lube has worked for you, it is probably because you have not pushed it to it's limits which is pretty low.

6. Use a tried and true lube and methinks your results will be different

[shooting on a shoestring]

I've mixed up some more lube with a healthy dose of motor honey and ATF. I can't try it until I unload some brass. Right now I'm all loaded up. Bad problem, but I'll just have to deal with it.

Is there a place on this board to catalog lube recipes, results and opinions?

[carpetman]

I think too much cream of wheat would cause constipation.

[45r]

I load 9.0 power pistol under rcbs 270 saa in my Redhawk and get one hole groups and no leading with lyman super moly mixed with blue angel or rcbs pistol lube.50/50 bees wax with sta-lube extreme pressure moly-graph multi-purpose grease will stop leading and increase velocity also.This combination shoots so well I havnt used anything else unless I want to shoot Gas check bullets at 1400 fps or higher.Firelapping your revolver will cut your group sizes and make leading go away also.Its time consuming but well worth the effort.I got my kit from beartooth and have done several and the improvement is like magic sometimes.