BFR or a Contender/Encore?

[Kitika]

G'day!

I'm after a bit of feedback from people who own or have shot a bfr or a contender/encore in 45/70. I'm getting it for metallic silhoutte shoots over here in Australia and i've personally never seen a contender/encore although they are available to buy but I have shot a BFR in 30/30 and was very impressed with the accuracy and the general feel of the revolver.

So will the contender/encore rival the bfr in accuracy/comfort in the 45/70 or am I best off with the BFR? I have read a few things on this forum about the bfr and they all seem very positive so I am leaning towards it at this stage unless the single shot contender is alot cheaper which I don't think it will be.

I have a 45/70 rolling block which is why i'm after the revolver to go with it so all my reloading gear stays the same just so you know:lol:.

Cheers for any info,

Kit

[wiljen]

I have both and the 45-70 barrel for the contender rarely gets mounted to the gun these days. The BFR does everything I could ask of a 45-70 handgun, is more comfortable to shoot and will handle hotter loads than the contender to boot. I would advise you get the BFR for the 45-70. In other calibers, I love my contender but it loses hands down when you match it against a BFR.

[Kitika]

Do you have the 7 inch barrel or the 10inch? I'm leaning towards the 10inch as the big bullets should have a big barrel to go with it:razz:
Is it the shape of the contenders grip that makes it less comfortable than the revolvers with the hotter loads/calibres?
I would like a contender because of the barrel swapping etc but it's just to hard to licence a firearm over here without having to license extra barrels aswell...

[44man]

The big BFR is nothing but comfort to shoot. Mine is 10" and will out shoot anything to 500 meters.
TC is made to bust you up! Worst grip and trigger guard ever. The BFR has less recoil then a .44 mag.
I have lots of loads that do under 1" at 100 yards WITH CAST. Just ask about your boolit choice.
Do not get a short barrel.

[wiljen]

Mine is the 10" barrel as well, skip the 7 and go for the longer tube.

[Whistler]

I've got the BFR in .444 Marlin and have tried the Encore in .45-70. They are pretty much equal with standard loads, but I do believe the .444 Marlin is sharper in the recoil department.

For silhouette they are both pretty worthless when compared to ballistically efficient cartridges like the .30-30, 6.5x55 or 6mm PPC.

I have done some experimenting with my BFR, but so far all load development has proven difficult. It was a 10" when I got it, but I shortened it to 7.5" so that it would meet the maximum weight allowed in silhouette (4.5lbs). Note that we over here use IMSSU rules, not IHMSA.

I am used to very hot .44 Mags, but the .444 Marlin is a whole different creature. Not saying I don't enjoy it (I do!), but it is very difficult to shoot accurately. Changing to some old Super Blackhawk grips made a lot of difference from the factory rubber grip and the totally useless and hideously expensive Paul Ferro grips (I guess they are made for giant sized hands). The SBH grips don't have a perfect fit, but they make the revolver behave like a single action gun should, being that it "rolls" in your hand rather than just beating you up.

[44man]

Some calibers should never be made in short barrels and even the 30-30 is a mess in a 10".
It took a LOT of work to make the 45-70 to shoot in a 10" barrel.
You reach the point where a powder charge just can't be burned.
I love the 45-70 BFR but do not expect me to make other large cases work.
Many cases in the TC are useless too. Too big can be too bad.
I made the 45-70 BFR work but ONLY one powder will do it and that is SR 4759. It might be a choice for the .444 too.

[Bullshop]

But my Encore 10" 270 Win is really loud so that means its good right! :mrgreen:

[buck1]

Go with the BFR! No doubt! The TC in 4570 is painfull with full loads. Mine has become a safe queen.......Buck

[wiljen]

I have found that I my go to load is Vihta N120 behind a 329gr Hammer bullet cast at .459 and checked with gator checks. Lube is Felix. At 48gr using WLR primers, I get cloverleafs at 50 yards out of all 5 cylinders at just shy of 1700fps. At 100 yards groups generally open to 2.5 to 3.5 inches. Part of that is probably my aging eyes and the factory iron sights, but I believe i can still hit most anything with that accuracy within my self imposed 80 yard limit.

[Doc Highwall]

I say listen to your elders, all of their wrists and joint pains yessiree.
Maybe I am a wimp I have the Encore in 6mmBr, 6.5mmBr and 7mmBr and I am thinking of getting a XP100 in either 6.5mmBr or 7mmBr.

[Matthew 25]

How many rounds do y'all think it takes to break in a BFR barrel in .454? Mine is not so accurate so far. I've only tried 3 454 loads and 3 45 LC loads and I haven't had any good groups. I've put about 100 rounds through it all lead.

[Gunfixer]

buck1,
send me your TC , I luv em. Shooting a 444 mar, and a 375 JDJ along with a 30-30 AI, 222, 22K hornet, 256 win mag all 14", Got a 45-70 "rifle" barrel (and a 223) 23". What is a pain to me is I can take more in my hands than I can on my shoulder anymore, and hell I'm only 45

[Artful]

I can say I have seen frames stretched on contender in 45-70 - I would go Encore myself with at least 14 inch barrel but if you want multi shot then BFR would be the choice.

[Kitika]

Sounds like the 45-70BFR will be able to shoot better than I can so thats what it sounds like what i'm after! Just have to see how much I'll have to pay for one and see how long it'll take for one to get imported. It's abit harder over here powderwise as i've never heard of anyone using IMR powder over here and it seems like thats the most common powder that you guys use. Otherwise I'd be borrowing some of your loading information 44man!
What weight bullets have you found work best in the bfr? I have a lee 500gr conical mould and will be getting a lyman hollow point gould mould (385gr?) too in the near future.

[44man]

Sounds like the 45-70BFR will be able to shoot better than I can so thats what it sounds like what i'm after! Just have to see how much I'll have to pay for one and see how long it'll take for one to get imported. It's abit harder over here powderwise as i've never heard of anyone using IMR powder over here and it seems like thats the most common powder that you guys use. Otherwise I'd be borrowing some of your loading information 44man!
What weight bullets have you found work best in the bfr? I have a lee 500gr conical mould and will be getting a lyman hollow point gould mould (385gr?) too in the near future.
No need for a 500 gr. I shoot a range of boolits from 300 to 420 gr.
These are 50 yard groups from a bunch of them.

[44man]

How many rounds do y'all think it takes to break in a BFR barrel in .454? Mine is not so accurate so far. I've only tried 3 454 loads and 3 45 LC loads and I haven't had any good groups. I've put about 100 rounds through it all lead.
The barrel needs no break in, just needs one fouling shot.
I have a hunch the SR primer is your main problem. We could not work loads with them, too much force and not enough heat.
I have been cutting the pockets to take a LP mag primer for a friends .454 and being able to work all loads increased accuracy a great deal. Changing the primer stopped the boolits from being blown out of the brass before good ignition and primer flame out.
The .45 Colt benefits more with a standard LP primer.
I use the Fed 155 in the .454 and the 150 in the .45.
I also cut down some .460 brass and used the LP mag primer in them.
Be careful with the SR primer and starting loads of 296 or H110. You will stick boolits and unburned powder in the bore. Use only max loads.
The BFR has a 1 in 16" twist and will work better with a heavier boolit starting at about 335 gr like the LBT WLN.
Let us know how you do.

[ebner glocken]

I have an early 45-70 bbl w/o porting on a contender. To tell you the truth this thing is painful to shoot with anything over factory pressure. This is by far the most painful handgun I own. I do also have a bfr in .500 smith and while it's no pleasure to shoot with top end loads it's definatly dooable (biggest problem is keeping bullets from pulling in chambers). I have heard that the 45-70s are much more comfortable to shoot in the bfr.

I'm not trading neither off but they're not my most shot guns by a fair margin. Neither is my choice for knocking down a 200M ram.

Ebner

[7br]

Couple of things to consider from the IHMSA silhouttee point of view. First is the weight limit. IHMSA production class is 4lbs. My Dan Wesson in .41mag with an 8" full underlug barrel barely squeeks in under the limit. You can shoot a revolver in production class, but you can't shoot a T/C in revolver.

If you are shooting silhouettes, you do not need dinosaur hunting loads. IHMSA has revised the rules so the rams are supposed to be set an inch in front of the topple point. The old "Rocks and dynamite" standard doesn't apply.

A local match will probably be 40 rounds with your shooting elbow on the ground. As you fire, the pistol will probably torque your wrist up and drive your elbow into the ground. An elbow pad is a must. I have not shot a BFR, so I can not tell you what the recoil is like. It is something to be considered though.

Personally, I like revolvers and I like the TC. I am glad I have both.

[44man]

The big BFR might qualify for unlimited and will go neck and neck with bolt guns. But is his silhouette IHMSA?
Mine goes a shade over 5# with an Ultra Dot, rings and base. The gun alone weighs about 4.36# with a 10". I don't remember weight limits.

[44man]

I have an early 45-70 bbl w/o porting on a contender. To tell you the truth this thing is painful to shoot with anything over factory pressure. This is by far the most painful handgun I own. I do also have a bfr in .500 smith and while it's no pleasure to shoot with top end loads it's definatly dooable (biggest problem is keeping bullets from pulling in chambers). I have heard that the 45-70s are much more comfortable to shoot in the bfr.

I'm not trading neither off but they're not my most shot guns by a fair margin. Neither is my choice for knocking down a 200M ram.

Ebner
I shot my TC 30-30 with one hand a few times---FORGET IT! :roll: Not bad from Creedmore or with two hands.
I might be crazy with my big bores but I am not nuts. I can shoot the .475 and .500 JRH BFR's with one hand. The TC's need sent to the bottom as an anchor.
Even the MOA is all wrong and I had to make my own guard. Factory stuff busted me up.

[stubshaft]

You can shoot it in Unlimited as long as the weight doesn't go over 6 lbs. You might be able to be competitive if you are shooting in the lower classes but in International the bolt guns have the edge.

[Whistler]

Unless they go by IMSSU rules (which I believe they do, not being in the US). Then it will be to heavy for Production and Revolver and only the 7.5" will go into Unlimited. The 10" will be to heavy. I had to lighten my BFR with 130 grams or so to get it into Unlimited. There are no optical devices in IMSSU Unlimited.

[Kitika]

Put my order in today for the BFR with the 10 inch barrel:grin:

Gotta wait until august till its get here and I can fire a shot through it though! I'm not particularly sure on what rules we use for metallic silhouette but it isn't a very big sport here yet and isn't shot by very many people so the rules are pretty lax. I don't think the 45/70 will be an heavier than the 30/30 bfr which is already being shot in our club shoots:wink:

So what optics do you prefer on your long range handguns? Red dot or crosshair and favourite brands?

[44man]

I like the Ultra Dot, 30mm. I have all kinds of scopes but find the dot is as easy to shoot groups with, easy to shoot off hand and works at distance too.
The 45-70 and my 317 gr boolit drops roughly 16" at 200 yards. I never adjust for distance because I keep my deer settings all the time so I just aim higher and can hit empty spray paint cans at 200 from Creedmore.
I have shot a lot to 500 meters and just pick a tree branch about 26' over the ram. :bigsmyl2: By getting just the right spot in a tree with the help of a spotter, I have kept all hits on steel. I can't do that with my 45-70 rifle.
I have never found the red dot a detriment to accuracy and I actually shoot it better then a scope. I will not hunt with anything else, it just helps too much with old eyes.
I think the accuracy is because of the 1 in 14" twist rate, MR has been correct in twist choices with most of their revolvers. barrel and throat measurements on every BFR I have measured have all been perfect. The 45-70 loves a .459" boolit. Throats are .4592" and groove is .458".

[ebner glocken]

I shoot irons any color as long as it's black w/ exceptions. The BFR and T/C wears a leupold 2x and most speciality pistols wear a leupold VX3 2.5-8x 32mm. I'm 36 and my eyes are still good, hope it holds out a long time.

Ebner

[Kitika]

I see the leupold has a mount available through magnum research but what mount would the ultradot use? I do like the sound of the ultradot as most of the shooting I do is offhand and standing so any magnification will probably make it harder to stay on target. Just read the aussie rule book and we use IHMSA rules so It's classed in unlimited.

[44man]

I see the leupold has a mount available through magnum research but what mount would the ultradot use? I do like the sound of the ultradot as most of the shooting I do is offhand and standing so any magnification will probably make it harder to stay on target. Just read the aussie rule book and we use IHMSA rules so It's classed in unlimited.
The BFR is drilled and tapped and comes with a great base. Just use the rings that come with the Ultra Dot. When you put the rings on, just do not mount over any glass. I put the extension on front and mount a ring on it. Look at my avitar to see.
You do not have to buy anything except the Ultra Dot.

[Whitworth]

That's what we did with my BFR as well, mounted the front mount on the extension. Eventually we added one more ring up front as an insurance policy.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f196/MarkoR/P1000585.jpg

[44man]

Whit put 4 shots in the top hole at 50 yards and then he FLINCHED or PEEKED! :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:
To watch a revolver shoot one shot after another into the same hole can mess with your mind. Can't be, can't happen so I just have to throw the last shot.
The reason I shoot good at 50 is that I never can see the holes until I walk to the target. :drinks:

[Frank]

Here's the BFR 45/70 off the bench 100 yds. It hits point of aim offhand and creedmore.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=3917

Multiple hits on the can 100 yds creedmore.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=3918

See, Progresso has no MSG.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=3919

[Moonie]

But I like MSG, it's all natural.

[Frank]

Moonie:
But I like MSG, it's all natural.

Bon appetite! [smilie=p:

[Kitika]

Already sold on the ultradot 30mm at $160.00 with rings it looks like a great unit! If the red dot is fine enough to not cover too much of the target but still be big enough to pick up easily I'm sold :grin: I was looking at the matchdot too but theres no comparison on the different size of the dots compared to the ultradot so it's hard to say if it'll be better for what I want it for.

[44man]

Already sold on the ultradot 30mm at $160.00 with rings it looks like a great unit! If the red dot is fine enough to not cover too much of the target but still be big enough to pick up easily I'm sold :grin: I was looking at the matchdot too but theres no comparison on the different size of the dots compared to the ultradot so it's hard to say if it'll be better for what I want it for.
At 50 meters, just find a white dot target that you can center the red dot into. For longer ranges, paper targets get harder. At 100, just set the dot near the top of a can. Steel at long range is easy. The dot never seems to get worse with distance.

[Frank]

Kitika:
I was looking at the matchdot too but theres no comparison on the different size of the dots compared to the ultradot so it's hard to say if it'll be better for what I want it for.
With the Matchdot you can have both dots. Both dot sizes have their benefits.