Lead Dye??

[HollowPoint]

I recently finished up the last of my my CAD Drawings for my latest version of the
Soft-Pointing Tool I developed back near the time I first joined this forum.

I have yet to machine the parts for assembly and testing but, judging from my previous versions I'm 99.9 percent sure it will work.

Design-wise, it's basically the same as my previous version except for the fact that it now sports integral electronics to smooth out the dispensing of my molten alloys.

I've preempted the following question by stating the above, in order to give you an idea of why I'm wanting this information.

Is there any type of dye that I could use to alter the color of my lead alloy? It doesn't have to be a stark color difference, just enough for me to visually see the difference between one alloy and the other.

I've mixed and casted with lead alloys of different hardness levels and there does seem to be a very faint difference in hue but, it's not quite enough for my purposes.

When I test the next version of my Soft-Pointing Tool I'd like to be able to dye one of my two different alloys (hard-alloy and soft-alloy) so that I can see what kind of blend I'm getting at the transition point between the two alloys.

And just as a personal observation or quirk; I think it would be cool to have some cast lead bullets of different colors. It might be a good way to segregate the various hardness levels of my lead billets using a color-code system with dyes.

It would certainly simplify things for me. I wouldn't have to take as much time to check my hardness level every time with my Lee Hardness Tester.

Anybody have any useful ideas how I could permanently dye my lead alloys while in their molten state?

HollowPoint

[onondaga]

Arsenic will harden and color the hard alloy but it isn't very user friendly. You would likely need 2%+ to show up well and your hardness would also take off. Arsenic oxide is red and heat treating with out quench would really bring up the color while also softening the soft point portion of the boolit if it has any tin/antimony.

I bet Rotometals would mix you up a high arsenic alloy. Antimonial lead with 2%+ Arsenic for base and pure lead with 1% Tin for the point might do it well with the heat/no quench treatment

But really the color between linotype/pure is easily visible with heat/quench treatment to bring up the flashy surface color of linotype.

Have you tried simple stuff like soaking the un-lubed boolits you have in vinegar or bleach overnight and note any color changes?

Gary

[HollowPoint]

Thanks for the insight Gary:

At this point I really haven't tried anything other than thinking about how I might be able to change the color of my molten-then-solidified lead alloys.

I never thought of trying the "soaking" thing you've referred to. I'll have to give that a try. Maybe the chemical reaction with one of those liquids you mentioned will change the color just enough to help me see how well my two alloys mix when dispensed; without necessarily altering the composition or intended function of my finished bullets.

I'd still like to get an idea of the possibility of there being any kind of dye or other substance I can safely add to my molten lead that would give me the incidental effect of changing the color of my alloy when it becomes solidified.

It may be like asking to much but, I've don't recall ever reading or hearing of anyone inquiring about this so it stands to reason that there's a slim possibility that such a dye exists; we just haven't heard of it yet.

You mentioned RotoMetals; maybe they can suggest something that might work cause, I was really hoping to be able to just use the lead alloys I had on hand without having to buy more lead of a different composition.

I'll just have to keep digging and hope that something turns up.

Thanks again.

HollowPoint

[altheating]

For what its worth, a fellow told me that a few years ago he picked up used lino that had ink on it. He claimed that his boolits would hold the color of the ink that was used as long as he sorted out the lino with the same color ink on the pieces. He said the boolits were not brightly colored but did in fact have a noticeable color.

[cbrick]

From everything I've ever read in metals industry papers, Glen's book, the NRA Cast Bullet Book, everything, arsenic in & of itself adds very little hardening. For HT/quenching anything over a small fraction of a percent adds nothing to the ability to HT. As long as there is 0.25-0.50% of As in a lead/antimony alloy it will aid HT hardening, adding more does nothing. Arsenic in a non antimony lead alloy does nothing.

Arsenic is safe in bullet alloys because its only a trace amount, no idea of the safety issue if it were a much higher percentage.

If it would add any color to a lead alloy I have no idea.

Rick

[357 Voodoo]

Swedenelson posted not to long ago about some type metal that he had that was casting purple boolits.

maybe like Gary suggested a etch of some sort should show the blend zone.

[MBTcustom]

I know its not exactly what you asked but I have color coded my boolits/alloy ingots with paint markers from wal-mart. They make a very hard mark that adheres well to lead. And you get five colors in a pack. just my two cents.

[Von Gruff]

Hollowpoint. Not sure how you are looking to get the two alloys 'joined' but my softpoints of 50/50 ww/Pb on a lino shank show rather well the colour difference of the two alloys.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/casting027.jpg



After delivery of said boolit at 2415fps, the colour difference is not as noticable as the expansion change - difference.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/008.jpg

Colour difference here was a little easier to see though. :grin:
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/Goats-Castsoftnose006.jpg

:drinks:

Von Gruff.

[frkelly74]

Maybe just use crayons to dye the lube different colors??? Color code the lube rather than the lead.

[HollowPoint]

altheating:

I'm wondering what type of ink was used that caused the linotype you mentioned to retain some of the ink's color.

Next time I cast -just for kicks- I'll try mixing in some ink out of an ink-pen. I suspect it may just burn off cause of the heat but you never know.

Color-coding was really just an after thought. I really wanted to be able to dye either my hard-alloy or my soft-alloy (which ever one would take the dye better) so that when I dispensed my hard-alloy over the top of my soft-alloy, it would make it easier to see just how evenly the two blended.

As an example: You now when you mix the color yellow with the color blue you get the color green out of that mix? That's how you can tell you got a good blend.

Well, I was hoping to dye or change the color of one of my alloys just enough to give me a color change at my transition point between my two molten alloys, then as it solidifies hopefully it will retain enough of color blend to make it easily distinguishable.

I actually use sharpies to color code my alloys. It's not really a "color-code" system, I just use different colored sharpies to write the BHN numbers on my billets.

There is a pretty good color contrast on the bullets pictured in Von Gruff's post. I don't have any linotype and I was trying to keep from having to buy any additional specialized alloys.

When I've used my soft-pointing tool in the past I've just used straight stick-on wheel weights up front and an alloy of 18-20 in the back; all have been either .45 or .44 caliber bullets.

If I get time tomorrow I'll post a pic of the CAD drawing so you can get an idea what I'm trying to achieve and how it works.

Thanks everyone, for your input. If you think of anything else please don't hesitate to write it down here. I got some good ideas to try out this time around.

HollowPoint

[altheating]

I wonder if you could use eyeliner or some of the other cosmetics. Most of them are metal compounds. Just a thought.

[HollowPoint]

This is one of the CAD drawings I mentioned in my initial post inquiring about the possibility of dying my lead alloy to a different color. I've also included a separate pic of my previous working prototye for comparison.

I picked this particular drawing because it shows just enough detail to give you a good idea
how this tool is designed to work without giving away all the details of its design.

The drawing shows a Soft-Pointing tool with two separate ON/OFF switches. In reality, my upcoming prototype will only have one ON/OFF switch.

On the last prototype Soft-Pointing tool I hope to make up, I'll be using two separate ON/OFF switches to facilitate the casting of (what I'm calling) "Binary Gourmet Bullets." Wherein, it will allow me to cast bullets with hard alloy at the nose and tail of the bullet, and soft alloy in the center.

In theory, this will allow my cast bullet to expand at the belly rather than at the nose via the squishing effect of impacting my target at the nose of the bullet and the inertial of the oncoming tail end at the heel of my bullet. (just a theory at this point)

I hope this CAD drawing gives you all a little better idea of why I inquired about some sort of Dye to color my lead alloy. When I dispense one molten alloy over the other, I'd like to be able to see how well they are blended at the point at which they meet.

I'll be taking this pics down tomorrow morning.

HollowPoint

[onondaga]

Nice rendering. I wish you luck, casting is a pretty horizontal market.

Gary

[HollowPoint]

"Horizontal Market"

I've noticed that too. There aren't to many forward-thinking type of changes here..

The same basic bullet designs and casting techniques.

On many occasions I've read the words, "Thinking Outside The Box." Well, inside that Bullet-Casting-Box there's enough information to fill a library with books on the subject and keep a guy busy for the rest of his life.

With most of our attention focused on the inside of that "Box," we fail to see that on the outside of that "Box" there's infinitely more information that exists and beyond that, there's even more to be discovered.

Fortunately for me, there seems to be just enough upward and progressive types within the bullet casting community to keep this hobby from getting boring.

When it comes to hobbies, (in my case) the following has been the story of my life when taking up new hobbies.

Get Good At It, Get Bored With It; Move On To Something Else.

Find Something Else To Do.

Then, Get Good At That "Something Else", Get Bored With That "Something Else" and start the search all over again.

The hobby of bullet casting has an awful lot to offer but, I'm not content to stay inside that proverbial "Box," especially when I know there are things about bullet casting that haven't been discovered yet. Positive things; forward thinking things; things that would make for better bullets and bullet design.

This includes dreaming up new specialty tools with which to make bullet casting even more enjoyable.

HollowPoint

[onondaga]

You may have hit a good time for your invention. The price gouging by suppliers and manufacturers of reloading components has driven many to become boolit casters. This is a blip so far in our horizontal market, but could be a significant upturn with new inventions like yours. If you go into production, my advise is copywright all your literature, get a pending patent and dump your life into advertising.

Getting the instruction manual for your tool short, smooth and idiot proof can be very challenging. I am retired from being a technical writer specialized in the area of idiot proofing instruction manuals. If you get that far and want a consultation or manual help...one time only, no charge, contact me. You have a PM coming with my personal email address included.

Gary