Mixing up #2 while smelting?

[MikeS]

Hi All.

Well, the title says it all. I have some stick on wheel weights I'm going to smelt soon, and I also have some stereotype that I need to melt down into smaller ingots. I was wondering if there's any reason why I can't do both together, and basically mix up some Lyman #2 alloy during the smelting phase? From Lyman's formula to make #2 I have scaled it up, and my figures are:

10 lbs. Lino (I'd be using Stereotype instead)
13.74lbs. Lead (I'll be using Stick on wheel weights for this)
1.25 lbs. Tin (I have some 99.3% tin bar solder for this)

Any reason why I shouldn't mix this all together in my dutch oven on the turkey fryer?

The stereotype that I have is in 10lb pieces (I have 3 of them) so I would have to melt them down in the dutch oven to get them into 1lb ingots anyway, so I figured that I might as well mix up the #2 at the same time.

Will using stereotype rather than linotype make a big difference in the alloy? If so, what adjustments should I make? Also, the bar solder I have is 99.3% tin and .7% copper, will the copper make much of a difference? Thanks!

[grumpy one]

I've never wanted to mix an alloy in the same melt as I smelted WW, mainly because it always seems there is too much risk of making a mess. The smelting process is focused on getting the melt clean and trying not to let a zinc weight slip through the process. Sometimes I miss a zincer, and my solution has always been to throw away the whole batch - which is why I like to smelt in small batches. It may be possible to recover most or all of a zinc-contaminated melt, but I'm not yet convinced, and I'd really hate to throw away a batch of type-metal. Also, sometimes I run out of a constituent I use in my standard WW mix (I traditionally include 10% of stick on WW that have high tin but hardly any antimony. Sometimes I run out of stick-ons and have to put that batch aside until I get some more.) So, it isn't technically impossible to do your smelting and alloying in a single step, but I personally wouldn't for the reasons I've given.

All of the typemetals are a bit of a problem as far as actual composition are concerned, partly because the scrap dealer doesn't usually know what they are, and partly because some of them - especially linotype - are usually in a depleted state when they are scrapped. They have to be dosed regularly with remedial alloys to keep the correct analysis, and no one is going to do that immediately before scrapping the stuff. I don't think I have ever encountered scrap typemetal that wasn't depleted. My approach has always been to melt down my typemetal, make a trial batch of bullet alloy using it, test the hardness of the bullet alloy, and then adjust the composition. By the time I have done that, I've more or less calibrated that batch of remelted typemetal. Remember, usually each chunk of typemetal you buy will turn out to be different from each other chunk, both because of depletion and because it may not have been the same alloy in the first place.

Copper in bullet alloy is a rather powerful ingredient, either for good or ill depending on your objective. However if you are only dealing with 3% tin or less in your final bullet alloy, your bar solder will be so diluted that the 0.7% copper in it will probably have little or no noticeable effects. However I'm not clear on why you are calling tin with a trace of copper, "bar solder".

[Char-Gar]

I would not do it. Smelt and clean the WW and pour into ingots. Use that with others to mix #2 in another melt. Pour up those to use when you cast.

[clintsfolly]

Just melt the stickies first if no Zinc add the rest. I have alloyed up to 250 lbs at a time and never had any trouble. Make your alloy and test if to hard add pure and if to soft add lino or stereotype or just shoot it as is! My guess it will be a little hard but will make good boolit for high velocity rifle loads. Clint

[Defcon-One]

I'd do it all at one time! Your only talking about 27 lbs. of alloy. Just take all the right precautions to protect your metal. Sort it all well and positive temperature control.

First smelt and clean the lead. Be especially careful on temp (not over 700 deg.) and check every thing twice to avoid Zinc issues. Flux one last time.

Once the lead is clean and your sure that it is a good batch, shiny on top with everything looking normal, add the other items carefully. One note: Your planned mix would be over 7% Tin because of the Stereotype (6, 14, 80). I'd do this mix:

10.0 lbs. Stereotype
17.0 lbs. Lead (Stick-on wheel weights)
0.75 lbs. Tin (99.3% tin bar solder)

You will hit it dead on at 5% Tin, 5% Antimony and 90% Lead. That's 27.75 lbs. of true Lyman #2!

Your ingots will be beautiful and shiny and they can go right in the pot when you need them! Mark them #2 or use a different style mold so that you don't mix them up with your other lead.

I mark mine with a number that tells me what is in it, Tin then Antimony so my #23 Alloy is 2% Tin, 3% Antimony. For Lyman #2, I'd mark #55 Alloy for 5% Tin, 5% Antimony!

It works for me and I know the exact mix ratio by the number on the bar.

Good Luck and have fun.

[jsizemore]

Just as you have made up your mind to mix up a batch of #2 you can change your mind and you can't undo what you've done. I know, you'll shoot this for a long time. If you own a bullet puller then you are prone to change like the rest of us. Alloy as you go.

[Defcon-One]

.....you can change your mind and you can't undo what you've done......


Not True! Any alloy can be melted and re-alloyed into another mix. Increase or reduce Tin, increase or reduced Antimony. (All you need is some pure lead and a source of Tin and Antimony. You have that!)

No Fear, Nothing is permanent. That is why this stuff is so much fun! I'd still go for it!

FYI: I just did a batch of my #23 alloy (2, 3, 95) today. It was 79 lbs. in ingots to be exact!

I'll say it again, "Your only talking about 27 lbs. of #2 alloy"

Here's approximately what you'll get:

Tin - 5.00%
Antimony - 5.05%
Copper - 0.02%
Lead - 89.96%
Weight - 27.75 lbs.
Est. Hardness - 14.7

I seriously doubt that 0.02% Copper will cause you any problems. Do a test batch if you have any concerns about that.

[zomby woof]

Not much lead, go ahead.

[onondaga]

Sounds like a great batch of my favorite alloy.

gary

[MikeS]

Actually I was thinking if anything the copper might make the alloy slightly harder than it would be without it. Thanks for the adjusted alloy. I went ahead and smelted the stick on wheel weights by themselves, but I will do the batch of #2 as you adjusted it. I have both a HF dutch oven, and a 10" frying pan that I use depending on the amount of alloy I'm melting, and the 10# pieces of stereotype are just a little too big for my frying pan, any ideas on if I should try it in there anyway, or if I should try and cut it down first? I really don't want to make a finished alloy in the dutch oven, as it's fairly dirty from the glue on the stick ons, and I don't really want to mess with it, nor do I want to get any of that in my finished alloy. I thought I had around 30# of stickons, but it ended up only being around 25#. I can't complain, I paid $10.00 for them, so I got a good deal.

I just bought a couple of Lee ingot moulds from Midway, as well as a used SAECO ingot mould and a couple of ladles off eBay, so I think I will wait for them to come in before I mix up the #2 so I will use those moulds for the number 2. I will still write on them what they are. The system I use is one that was very difficult to come up with, and I'm thinking of patenting it. When I smelt clip on wheel weights I mark the ingots 'CWW' when I smelt stick on wheel weights I mark them 'SWW'. When I make up Lyman #2 I mark them either 'L2' or just '2'. When I melted down the lead brick I got recently I marked them 'pb'. Like I said, a very original marking scheme! :)

The first ingots I smelted I marked using stamp in letters and a mallet, later on I got lazy and just marked them with a sharpie. My original thought were the stamped in letters would last longer, but I go thru lead too quickly to worry about long term storage!

[MikeS]

Ok, looking at my tin (solder) supply, I think I'm going to use a different bar of solder, this one is 95.5% Sn, 3.5%Ag, 0.75Cu, and 0.2Sb so I think I'll use the entire 1lb bar rather than 3/4 of the bar when it was 99.3 Sn / .7Cu and while I'll have a bit more tin it should be good enough. Besides the added silver should make the alloy a bit tougher, and a bit shinier too :) I guess that would make the alloy Lyman #2+ :-P

[Defcon-One]

With the substitution of 1 lb. of the new 95.5% Tin bar solder in place of the .75 lbs. of 99.3% here's approximately what you'll get:

Tin - 5.71%
Antimony - 5.00%
Copper - 0.03%
Silver - 0.13%
Lead - 89.17%
Weight - 28.0 lbs.
Est. Hardness - 14.9

Close enough for me!