5744 question

[Tom-ADC]

Looking at my loading manual I see loads for AA 5744 and XMP 5744, when I check what ref I have I don't see who makes the XMP 5744?
Thanks Tom

[felix]

I think the 5744 powders were made in Hungary. The first was made with 10 percent nitroglycerin, and the second, the XMP, was made with 20 percent. Ignition was improved, and speed adjusted with different deterrents to equal the 10 percent version. I have no idea of the number of lots of each, nor do I remember reading about any newer versions. ... felix

[Doc Highwall]

They are the same powder at different times made for Accurate Arms Powder.
It is my first go to powder for rifle cases.

[Tom-ADC]

They are the same powder at different times made for Accurate Arms Powder.
It is my first go to powder for rifle cases.

So Doc the loading info for one works okay with the other? Looking at 38-55 & 45-70 mild loads.

[Doc Highwall]

Yes! that is two of the cartridges that I use it in along with 30-30Win and 308 win and several others.
If your load is too light you will see unburnt powder in the barrel, just start going up in small increments like 1/2 grain until it leaves less residue. Some residue will not hurt accuracy.

If I remember I used about 25 grains in my 45-70 and 29 grains in my 45-90.

[Tom-ADC]

No need for magnum primers? I never use them use the data calls for them.

[Jon K]

Used to use it......til they priced themselves out of my reach.

Try some 4759...

Jon

[swheeler]

I do believe Felix has it correct, they uped the nitro content and kept the relative burn rate the same. Interesting powder to say the least, I have used it in 300 RUM (XMP version)without a filler, excellent accuracy, consitant ignition. I believe I read this powder was used as the explosive charge in ordanance in it's original application.

[swheeler]

I would guess the XMP version has a lower flame temperature /ie easier on throats, but will deferr to Felix for a definative answer.

[wiljen]

I think you are backward Swheeler. The Higher the nitro component, the higher the flame temp and the harder it is on throats typically. So if the XMP was the later at 20%, it would ignite easier but would be harder on throats due to the higher percentage of nitroglycerin in it. This is why double based are typically seen as being more detrimental to throats than single based powders ( the presence of Nitro).

[felix]

Yeah, Swheeler, Will has it correct. Using the new powder the difference of erosion would be minuscule using lower average pressure loads. It is a logarithmic relationship. ... felix

[swheeler]

Well that's me bass ackwards II! I was thinking about Winchesters claim to fame of "lower flame temperature" in their double base ball powders as being less errosive than conventional single based powders. I take it that is achieved by deterant/additive used for just that purpose then.

[Tom-ADC]

With luck I'll find some of this at the gun show tomorrow, would like to give it a try and save hazmat fee's at the same time.

[felix]

Ball powders are heavily sedated to obtain proper burn speeds. Small granules of natural nitrocellulose burn too fast because of the surface area percentage. Thus, the slower the bigger stick powder, either single base, double base, or triple base, the rougher it is on the throat. So, the Olin statement is actually true, even though somewhat misleading as to why. ... felix

Select a hobby powder based upon the pressure curve only for the cartridge on hand. Forget the other advertising characteristics for overall happiness. ... felix

[swheeler]

Like they say, "It's all in the advertising"

[Doc Highwall]

The real cost is the price per pound divided by the number of rounds per pound.
Regardless of the cost I am shooting close to half minute five shot groups at 300 yards in my 308 Win justifies a slight cost increase as long as I have accuracy.

[Tom-ADC]

Two other powders I'm shopping for are IMR 4198 and IMR 4895, everything I have now just isn't listed for either the 38-55 or 45-70 at trapdoor pressures.
But 5477 is #1 on the list.

[Doc Highwall]

What I really like about AA5744 is it is not position sensitive.

[felix]

Doc, that's only a matter of degree. The more dense the powder is within the case, the less sensitive it becomes to full (legitimate) ignition characteristics. And, that depends on many factors, including the powder formulation, both physically and chemically. Generally, it's all game playing to make a powder work for a specific purpose; it just so happens a particular design works beneficially elsewhere, and usually by accident. ... felix

If I remember correctly, Marty, the owner/guru of AA wanted a BP substitute for the big cases, and not using a large charge to do so. He was trying to emulate the typical 4759 curve I think, because that is about when 4759 was not being produced any more and the demand was still there. Look how similar the identifying numbers are (4759..5744) but strongly different at the same time. ... felix

[Doc Highwall]

I agree with you Felix. I try to shoot the same weight bullet at black powder velocities with out a filler in my black powder guns and I am happy with the results I get out to 300 yards which is as far as my gun club has.

[Tom-ADC]

I tend to watch the pressure pretty close, not a believer in getting close to max, don't like a lot of recoil or stressing the firearm.

[shotman]

one big note
Dont leave it the powder measure It will eat the plactic and you will trash the top. been there
It does real good in the savage 110 front loader . and Have good results with 338-06, 348 and 311413 in a 06