9mm + Lee 130 gn RNFP _ 4.0 Win 231 a winner!

[Gray Fox]

I recently picked up a new-to-me Beretta 92 G (92 SF with Gov't Contract Trijicon sights) and wanted to try it with boolits. After reading threads here I ordered a Lee 6 cavity 125 grain RNFP mold and went to town once I got it. Alloy was water dropped wheel weights. Tumble lubed boolits weighed 132 grains and I sized them at .358. I loaded them in a Dilon 650 in once-fired Win brass and used a Lee factory crimp die in the tool head.

Over 4.0 gn Win 231 and CCI small pistol primers the load was consistently hitting a cantelope sized rock at 85 yards from an improvised rest (standing, wrists against a 4x4 range roof support). Recoil was mild and leading was not visible.

I have a pair of S&W 3913 9s with 3.25" BBL that the wife and I often carry, but had never been able to shoot anything but patterns with the Lee 120 TC boolit at .356. The results were at least as good as 124 grain Gold Dots at 25 meters. this load would shoot much better if I could see the sights as I used to. 65-year-old eyes with tri-focals and astigmatism that gives me a half offset view of 3-dot sights sure doesn't help.

I wanted to try some near contact to 7 meter draw and engagement exercises, but this range doesn't allow shooting from the holster or such close range shooting. Got to find a new range within driving distance.

All in all a load I'm very happy with due to using the broad experience found on this site that enabled me to go from lead pot to satisfactiion on the range in two days.

Thanks, guys--GF

[cabezaverde]

Does that mold have a bevel base? Might want to try it in my 6906.

[JIMinPHX]

That mold changed a little over the years. Some have a bevel base. Some have a flat base. The radius on the nose has varied a little too. It's almost luck of the draw as to which version you end up getting. The Bator molds from Lee have been morphing lately too.

[GabbyM]

It's a flat base. Here is a naked one. About three years old.
Mine will weigh about 128 gr from WW also.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=32&pictureid=1727

My personal theory on why these shoot well is they are just heavy enough to stay sub sonic to avoid the transition and or the turbulence encountered at high mach numbers.
Then there is a nice long bearing surface to grip the 9mm tight twist barrels. I live at 750 feet ASL and speed of sound is something like 1150 on some days. 122 grain bullets will run right at that then up to 1240 fps with full up loads. 22 rim fire runs into this same issue dancing around the speed of sound. That’s why you see all the target ammo advertised as sub sonic with 40 grain bullets. The OP’s 4.0 grains of WW 231 load is probably around 1050 fps give or take. Plus WW 231 isn’t the most popular pistol powder for nothing.

If you increased the load up form 4.0 grains which is light. You'd probably see accuracy degradation as you flirted with the sound barrier. I don’t have any test data to back that up.

[rayzer]

I just picked up this mold, it has a flat base. I will be shooting this boolit in my Beretta M9. Thanks Gray Fox, for giving me a starting point with this boolit.

[Thumbcocker]

What oal are you seating to?

[xringshutr]

This bullet (new style) has shot well in about every gun I have shot it in including the 357 Sig, which I am loading with 9.2 gr of Win 571. I have posted about this load before. It will be a sad day when I run out of 571. AA #7 works well too though. Bottom line, it's a nice accurate bullet for autos and revolvers as well as easy on the lead stash. What's not to like?
Don't want to bash Gabby's theory, as it looks to be a good one, but it shoots well at 1250-1300 too. :wink:

[GabbyM]

This bullet (new style) has shot well in about every gun I have shot it in including the 357 Sig, which I am loading with 9.2 gr of Win 571. I have posted about this load before. It will be a sad day when I run out of 571. AA #7 works well too though. Bottom line, it's a nice accurate bullet for autos and revolvers as well as easy on the lead stash. What's not to like?
Don't want to bash Gabby's theory, as it looks to be a good one, but it shoots well at 1250-1300 too. :wink:

Well 1250 to 1300 is well above sonic. But I take it you're dong that with the 357 Sig? Could probably get the 1250 from a 9x19mm as the 122 and 124 grains will.
My Lee flirts with 130 grains regardless of being called a 125. May not make much difference. Never tried to push them. I load my max power 9x19mm using published data and a chronograph. Then load to the listed velocity. IME if you load them up until the case heads start to expand they are a bit hot. For several years I shot a load from the Speer book 8.0 grains of Blue dot under a 124 grain bullet. That's a hot one and after a few reloads the primers would be loose and you'd have a bulge where the size die stopped and the case head expansion showed up. Didn’t have a Chrony back then.

Adding to the confusion. I can take a load worked up in my 4” S&W with 124gr at over 1,240 fps. Then drop them in my Taurus M92 with 5” barrel and they are sub sonic. I’d have to check my book but the Taurus is around 150 fps slower than the shorter barrel Smith. Then there are other issues. I have some of the Lee 125’s sized at .3575” that I need to try in that Taurus. But what I really need to do is trade it. Get something more compatible with my Smith & Wesson. Like a 38 revolver so I don't mix up the ammo.

[GabbyM]

What oal are you seating to?

They end up about covering the crimp grove.
Check them in your barrel. With barrel removed from pistol make the COL as long as you can. In most 9mm there is lots of space between where an empty case drops in and the end of the barrel hood. I get the bullet bumping the case head back towards the hood but short of it to allow for some fouling. Most guns you will not have a magazine length issue. 1.150" is about max for most magazines. A .032” (1/32nd ”) seating depth difference will make a significant pressure change. The 4.0 grain of WW231 load would be good to start at 1.050” with the Lee 125gr bullet. You may be shooting 1050 or 1200? At 1050 you may see little to no pressure sign but at 1200 you’d probably have flat primers with flow around the firing pin. Some case head expansion is a sure sign you are hot enough.

Separate your head stamps in a 9mm or pressure will be all over the map. I started tossing odd ball European military brass years ago. Lots of it is thick walled and will be very much over pressure if you use the same load you drop in a Remington case. If you had enough to be worthwhile you could work up a load for it.

Any COL over about 1.050 with most 125gr bullets and the sized diameter of the bullet is reaching into the barrel throat. That may not be the best setup for a combat pistol but I do it. With the long nosed 147 grain bullets the nose is clear to stick out to that length. At least the few I’ve played with.

With a 9mm you aren’t going to get lucky enough to take someone else’s load then make up 500 rounds and go shooting. You’ll get yourself in a bind.

[xringshutr]

Yeah, I am doing that speed with the 357 Sig. I don't like to push the 9X19 when it performs so well at Gabby's recommended speed. Follow his advise, its good.
Looks like the OP is doing everything right to make the sometimes finicky 9X19 shoot well with cast bullets and keep his barrel lead free at the same time.
My mold also drops at around/mostly just under, 130 gr as well.
I need to test the 358-125 more in the 38 Spec as I have only had to mold for about 7-8 months. Looking fwd to tuning a good load for the 4" S&W Mod 15.