Colt Peacemaker failed to fire

[pmer]

Hey guys I have a new (350 rounds) Colt model P, Peacemaker, that didn't fire one time and am wondering what happened.

It's a .357 and I loaded 6 rounds in, closed the gate and from half cocked pulled the hammer back to fire. It didn't fire and after waiting I pulled the round.

The round had a mark from the firing pin that was on the edge of the primer near to the brass like it was not in battery. Do you think the hand missed its cogg on the cylinder?

I wonder if I stick to loading 1 then skipping a hole and loading 4; letting the hammer rest on an empty hole is the way to go?

[Jim]

Hey guys I have a new (350 rounds) Colt model P, Peacemaker, that didn't fire one time and am wondering what happened.

It's a .357 and I loaded 6 rounds in, closed the gate and from half cocked pulled the hammer back to fire. It didn't fire and after waiting I pulled the round.

The round had a mark from the firing pin that was on the edge of the primer near to the brass like it was not in battery. Do you think the hand missed its cogg on the cylinder?

I wonder if I stick to loading 1 then skipping a hole and loading 4; letting the hammer rest on an empty hole is the way to go?

The first thing I would check is to see if the hand is rotating the cylinder to position and if the cylinder is locking. If that's not happening, I would take it back to the shop I bought it at(I assume you bought it at a shop) and have them look at it. I would not let this problem force me to load it in an abnormal manner to use it.

[CJR]

pmer,

Sounds like this new Colt is not "timed" right. I suggest you send it back to Colt. Also, for Colt Peacemakers, or clones thereof, that have no transfer bars like Ruger New Models etc., it is not prudent to load six (6) rounds for carry. Reason? The safety notch is fragile and if broken there is the chance that the hammer can fall on a live round. It is safer to carry five (5) rounds, with the hammer resting on an empty chamber. There are many "cylinder/rotating schemes" that count clicks to get the hammer on an empty chamber. What I do is paint two (2) red dots in the cylinder grooves on either side of a chamber. Then I load all chambers, except the one chamber that has red dots on each side. Then I rotate the cylinder until I can lower the hammer on the empty chamber and clearly see both red dots on either side of the frame's top strap. At that point, I have visual confirmation that the hammer is resting on an empty chamber. Then the piece goes into my holster.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

CJR

[44man]

Just a glitch in the way you cocked the gun.
If all other shots work, it is not a worry.
6 rounds loaded is OK for target but NOT for carry. As long as the gun is in hand and pointed down range, 6 is OK.
Load five if you drop the gun on the hammer all the time or it flies out of a holster. Prevent danger by loading 5.

[Char-Gar]

Load you Colt with 6 rounds. Keep it pointed down range and don't drop it.

Fire the six rounds.

Open the gate and put the pistol on half cock. Rotate the cylinder and look where the firing pin is hitting the primers.

If all six primers are struck off center and accuracy is OK, the hammer nose is a little out of kelter, but will not present any problems.

If only one or a few primers are hit in a different place, you have a timing problem. Most likely a poorly cut cylinder ratchet/star. Mark these cylinders with a Sharpie and have a good pistolsmith fix it.

[44man]

Load you Colt with 6 rounds. Keep it pointed down range and don't drop it.

Fire the six rounds.

Open the gate and put the pistol on half cock. Rotate the cylinder and look where the firing pin is hitting the primers.

If all six primers are struck off center and accuracy is OK, the hammer nose is a little out of kelter, but will not present any problems.

If only one or a few primers are hit in a different place, you have a timing problem. Most likely a poorly cut cylinder ratchet/star. Mark these cylinders with a Sharpie and have a good pistolsmith fix it.
It will not be the ratchet, it will be the cylinder notch. That will also have some chambers way out of time. You can't time a cylinder with every chamber different.

[cajun shooter]

CJR, You are incorrect in your posting by saying the reason for not carrying six rounds is a rather weak safety notch. The Colt or other clones of it don't have a safety notch. I have USFA revolvers which are made in the old Colt factory with the drawings from the 1st generation Colts. If you look at the revolver with the hammer down as it should be carried, you will see that the firing pin extrudes past the recoil shield of that revolver and would be very close to the primer of a loaded round. If dropped from saddle high and landing on the spur of that hammer, it is possible to have that round fire. That's the reason for carrying the 5 only rounds. The next thing is the proper loading and cocking of the Colt revolver. You bring the revolver to the 1/2 cock position and open the loading gate. You insert one round into a chamber and then while rotating the cylinder in a clock wise rotation skip the next chamber. After skipping this chamber, you load the next four and stop. You then pull the hammer all the way to the rear to full cock before allowing it down on what will be a empty chamber. If you don't bring the hammer to the rear and just let it down from 1/2 cock then the revolver is out of time and the cylinder stop is dragging on the cylinder. It will also fall off from the cylinder center and not engage the primer. If you have seen Colts or clones with the drag line all around the cylinder that is a sure sign of improper use. My USFA's have over three years of SASS matches and show no lines. Those who shoot Ruger's will have this drag line because of the design of the revolver and nothing may be done to stop it. Oh you could buy a USFA.

[pmer]

I think 44man is on by it being a glitch. I think if it had a serious timing problem it would've showed right away. It has several hundred rounds through it.

I learned pretty quick to not drop the hammer from half cocked because of the cylinder line. It has a tiny line only between two bolt notches.

I think I know what CJR means by saftey notch. It makes one of the 4 clicking sounds when you pull the hammer back and it used to help stop a accidental discharge from when the hammer is all the way to the rear or maybe if your thumb slips while trying to cock it.
The book says it can break with 20 or 30 lbs of force and that it should be fixed if that small lip breaks off.

I'll double check timing when I get home too.

I checked the timing and it seemed good but one of the three screws were loose. It was the front screw.

[cajun shooter]

PMER, In my answer to you I was not trying to say that you did not operate the gun in the correct manner. You asked a general question and I was trying to explain that was the cylinder bolt and could have been from improper handling. I was not there nor do I know you or your knowledge of guns. I am a armorer and have been to several schools such as S&W (4), Sig, Ruger, Ithaca, Remington . I was in no way trying to put down anyone other than to deliver correct information. Bill Weddle, you may load your revolver any way you wish but your way is not the correct method that is given for safety. By just loading the first five, the empty chamber is almost 360 degrees from the proper position. I have seen people do this and then with the hammer held back rotate the cylinder until the empty chamber comes up. You may have gotten away with this style for a thousand years but when you put it in print and some neophyte does it and his thumb slips off the hammer firing a round into some one you may stand up and take a bow. You helped them shoot some one. You may call me all the names you wish but if you don't think that some young kid reading your posting will not do it you are far from being correct. I try to help with every post and to some I come off as being a smart a--- but that is never my intention. I am only passing down what I was taught at my schools. There is what is called constructive criticism and then just plain criticism , my posting is the first. Bill, if I may ask you, what school taught you your loading of a SA Revolver? Why did you also take time to say that I was incorrect about the location of USFA? That had nothing to do with the answer to the question. When I purchased my guns they were from the old Colt factory. I only gave this info to show the ties between the two companies. I hope that your revolver has a minor or no problem at all there pmer. That is a fine one to own and shoot. I sold the one I had many years ago and I am still sorry for doing it. Best wishes to all

[CJR]

Cajun Shooter,

With all due respect, my Colt clone (Hawes) is identical to the Colt Peacemaker, except for its frame mounted firing pin, and it has a "safety notch" for carrying six (6) rounds. Likewise, my gunsmithing books (i.e. one in particular, Petersen's "Basic Gun Repair, Simple How-To Methods"), shows extensive photos of Colt Peacemaker hammers with the "safety notch". There are also some mods covered, to shorten the hammer cocking, that clearly shows how to remove the "safety notch".

I am familiar with the cylinder counting techniques to get the hammer on a empty chamber. I prefer my red dot markings on the cylinder.

Best regards,

CJR

[pmer]

This is the only SAA I have and its very cool. I like loading it with 1 then skipping a chamber and loading 4 more. Pull er back, and let the hammer down on an empty chamber. Thats the way I carry it from the house to behind the barn. But at the target I've put six in, it's not really needed though. Five is plenty.

The mould I have for it is a 358156 and it likes that boolit. I'd like to try it in 38 spl too but have to get dies sometime.

[cajun shooter]

I have no problem with you calling it what you want, as many gun writers do also call it the safety notch. I was instructed in armorer school to not refer to it as that for the reason of the public forming the wrong opinion. If the sear is put into this position then the chances of it being broken and falling is way up from the all the way down position. As I have have stated a stock Colt 1873 will have enough firing pin through the recoil shield to fire a round. With all due respect to you Sir, your Hawes is no where identical to a Colt SAA as it has the floating firing pin with transfer bar which is similar to a Ruger and not Colt. It also has a pot metal frame with only the cylinder and barrel being steel. They were imported in the 70's from Germany to sell as a much lower price option to buying a Colt. They were made by JP Sauer & Sohn in Eckernforde, Germany and imported by Hawes in Van Nuys, Ca. Hawes was created after Hy-Hunter discontinued the gun in the 60's. To say these guns are almost identical is past the point of comparing apples and oranges.

[CJR]

Cajun Shooter,

With all due respect, I could not disagree with you more. You obviously have the " history correct" on who manufactured the Hawes. But there are no "pot metals" used in my gun. The only part in my Hawes, not made of steel, is the aluminum ejector housing. Likewise, my Hawes DOES NOT HAVE a transfer bar like the later Rugers as you stated. It is classic Colt Peacemaker design. The grip frame is a casting and appears to be cast steel in that it blues beautifully with no evidence of surface porosity as would be expected with a ductile cast iron. The Hawes' main frame, barrel, frame, and all subsequent parts of the gun, except the aluminum ejector rod housing, are made of a high quality forged ordnance steel; most likely 4140 or 4340. As is typical with Sauer & Sohn, my Hawes shows excellent workmanship, takes max loads with ease, cocks like a Swiss watch, and has a barrel bore that was finished at the factory like a mirror.

Sorry to say I did not attend an "armorers school" like you. Instead, I have a graduate degree in Mechanical Engineering and I'm partially retired. I do part-time consulting in engineering, primarily in material failures, and know a little bit about metals. I have worked on my Hawes very extensively and I know what I have in-hand and what's in the gun.

Finally, there is just too much written and shown about the Colt's hammer's "safety notch" in my gunsmithing books, regardless of what your instructors stated in armorer school. It appears we'll have to agree to disagree about the Colt-styled hammer "safety notches" on my Hawes. Sorry about that! It is what it is.

Best regards,

CJR

[August]

Well, now, I've owned both Hawes and Colt's single actions.

There is not much similar between the two.

Quality of metal and heat treatment of the Hawes guns was poor, at best. Very uncharacteristic of Sauer, which typifies the best in heat treatment and metal quality. None the less, the Hawes gun I owned was a piece of pot metal junk, just like Cajun said.

Colt's guns have excellent heat treating and an attempt at quality finish.

I use neither of them any longer as the USFA gunz are far superior to any other single action made. I shoot Rooooooooger too, but only because I can bash them around without feeling guilty about it.

Do not load six rounds in that hog leg. The manual of arms for that gun is hammer down on an empty cylinder. Cajun has done a good job of explaining that loading procedure.

Now, if we could just get him to write in paragraphs, he'd be ready to run for office.