Reloading cast rifle boolits with a Dillon?

[Lizard333]

I just loaded up my first 30-30 rounds that I cast (311041) in my Dillon 550B and had some issue...... These boolits are gas checked. I noticed a little shaving of the boolits as i was seating them. Is this normal? Obviously I don't have a die to open the mouth of the brass before seating the boolit, so what do others do that have a similar set up? This was easily wiped off with a shop towel when I was done. Any suggestions? Thanks!:lovebooli

[garandsrus]

Lizard333,

You still need to use the Lee Universal Case Expander or the RCBS M die to expand the case mouth.

I resize, deprime, and then trim before loading so when loading the first station can house the case expander as the deprimer is no longer needed. If for some reason I still need the deprimer, I put the expander in the third station and seat the boolits in the fourth.

John

[Calamity Jake]

A 60° inclusive angle chamfer in the case mouth will stop shaving as long as the neck has been expanded enough to allow boolit seating without sizing it(.001-.002 press fit).

[3006guns]

Correction......that's a LYMAN M die, not RCBS.

[Larry Gibson]

I clean, neck size, deprime, clean primer pocket and inspect the cases prior to loading on my Dillon 550B. This can either be done on a seperate single stage press or at station 1 on the 550B. I prefer to do this for "quality assurance" of the loaded rounds.

Then to load using the Dillon 550B I put a Lyman .31 Mdie (.31 because I use .311 cast bullets in the 30-30) in station 1 to size, flare the case mouth which prevents the lead shaving with cast bullets and prime. Station 2 is the powder charging. Station 3 is bullet seating and inserting a dacron filler if needed. Station 4 is crimping either with a Lee factory crimp die or another seater that roll crimps.

Larry Gibson

[Doc Highwall]

I would do what Larry says or set up two die heads like I am.

With the first die head.

Station one, size and deprime.

Station two, Lyman M-die to expand case neck and bell case mouth.

Station three and four are empty. This gives you a chance to clean cases before re-loading with the second die head.

With the second die head.

Station one is empty and you prime only.

Station two, use the Dillon powder measure. Make sure the belled case mouth will enter the powder die.

Station three, bullet seating die.

Station four, crimp die if used, or leave empty if not crimping.

[Lizard333]

Good to know I spent 60$ on dies that I can't use to reload my new cast boolits. Bummer. So if I am sizing them to 309, I would get what die?? The only dies I have ever used are dillons. Thanks for the help.

[Lizard333]

I would do what Larry says or set up two die heads like I am.

With the first die head.

Station one, size and deprime.

Station two, Lyman M-die to expand case neck and bell case mouth.

Station three and four are empty. This gives you a chance to clean cases before re-loading with the second die head.

With the second die head.

Station one is empty and you prime only.


Station two, use the Dillon powder measure. Make sure the belled case mouth will enter the powder die.

Station three, bullet seating die.

Station four, crimp die if used, or leave empty if not crimping.


I like this idea. I think this is going to be what I do. Thanks for the info.

[onondaga]

Cast boolits can be forgiving too!!!!! How do your loads shoot?? If they shoot fine and shoot clean don't change anything!!!

Sure you can do everything possible to maximize your chance at getting the best accuracy and zero leading but sometimes you luck out.

Case mouth flaring and neck expanding makes cast bullet seating nice and clean. This is usually standard. Boolit fit determined by slugging the bore before getting a boolit casting mold and dies is a great way to maximize your luck but isn't always dogma to get results.

When I start with a new caliber, I slug the bore and select a boolit mold that drops boolits +.002 - +.003" larger than slugged groove to groove diameter so the boolits can be sized/gas checked +.002 over groove diameter.

I fiddle with die selection too, Lyman 'M" dies are usually big enough to avoid sizing down of cast boolits in the neck when seating boolits. Neck sizing collet dies like Lee's are adjustable and can be set for cast boolits, Some of the Lees can also use a different mandrel from another die as a cheap $4 part to modify the die size for cast boolits.

I use a shortened .303 Brit mandrel in a 7.62X39 to neck size for .312 boolits to fit my X39 single shot. That can be done with the Lee collet die in 30-30 also if you really need big diameter boolits for your rifle.

The shaving you get may be completely eliminated with a simple chamfer of the case mouth, but it may take more like a different die if you are not getting the accuracy you want in your loads.

30-30s inherently shoot better with cast than jacketed bullets, so many shooters are happy right at the start. Just try chamfering the case mouths and see how they shoot.

30-30s love H4895 with cast boolits. Lyman #2 alloy at 15 BHN with FNGC boolits take full advantage of the 30-30 also.

If you can't group 2-4 inches or minute of deer at 100 yards then start playing hardball and asking questions here.

Gary

[scrapcan]

A couple more option exists, but he above recommendations will also work as others mentioned.

1) use expander die in station 2, move the powder measure to station 3, and seat/light crimp in 4
or

2) have a custom expander made for the dillon measure. I saw a place that makes them, but it is not coming to mind at the moment. I htink I saw their add in Handloer magazine.

[looseprojectile]

how to load cast 30 caliber boolits. Memorize his post.
I use my 7.65X 54 expander for all the 30 cals. for cast boolits. And a good inside mouth chamfer.
Most loading dies are made for assembling jacketed bullets. Don't work good for cast without some thought.
Not scraping the boolit is one of the basic things to consider when seating casts.

Life is good

[JRR]

RCBS makes many inside neck expanders for cast boolits. For example, in 8 mm the cast boolit expander measures .323" which would be too loose for jacketed but perfect for a .325 cast projectile. Another example would be the 40s&w for cast at .3995" for a .401 cast projectile.

Just one more step!

Jeff

[fredj338]

M die works for rifle rounds w/ lead bullets.

[pipehand]

the only cast rifle rounds I ever ran throught a Dillon 550 were 7.62x39. I used the 30 carbine powder through expander in the powder measure station. This worked because the russian case is short like the carbine round. My first try was with h4198, and got varying case belling due to shearing of the stick powder. When I switched to Reloader 7 that problem went away. Any other rifle cases I would do as others have- Rcbs or Lyman expander die in the first station, and feed it previously sized, trimmed, and cleaned cases.

[Larry Gibson]

Good to know I spent 60$ on dies that I can't use to reload my new cast boolits. Bummer. So if I am sizing them to 309, I would get what die?? The only dies I have ever used are dillons. Thanks for the help.

Apparently you've misunderstood something. You still need the standard dies and the ones you have will work fine. It is in addition to the dillon dies you simply need a Lyman M - die. If you size the bullets to .309 then get the .30 SHORT Neck-Expand (M) Die , that's what's on the box on mine.

That is all you need to get additionally to your Dillon dies. The Dillon dies hould seat and crimp at station 3 in one operation. However, some of us find it better to crimp as a seperate step. Thus you may want to adjust the Dillon seater to just seat at station 3 and use seprate seater adjusted to roll crimp only at staion 4. Additionall a Lee Factory Crimp die, at station 4 will provide a much better crimp on jacketed bullets. The Lee factory Crimp die can also be used on many cast bullets if the crimp groove is large enough so the bullet isn't damaged during crimping.

If you are going to get the additional seater and crimp die I would suggest getting the Lee collet dies set. That will give you an additional seater and the Factory Crimp die. It also will give you the collet neck sizer which will work fine with most cast bullet loads in 30-30s. That will get you a lot less trimming and much great number of firings per case. You've climbed down off the porch with that 550B and are running with the big dogs now. The folks here are just trying to help you keep up with the pack....so to speak.

Again though, perfectly good cast bullet 30-30 loads can be had on your 550 with those Dillon dies with just the addition of the M-die.:drinks:

Larry Gibson

[hunter64]

I called Dillon about this very issue a year ago and they said to get the powder thru die for a .30 Carbine (C-13564) and it works great.

[Lizard333]

I didn't misunderstand, just bummed I have to buy more stuff. I'm already paying top dollar for the dies now I need more. I'm willing to do what I have to do. I ordered the M die today and an extra toolhead so i can make the steps go a little quicker.

[Doc Highwall]

I called Dillon about this very issue a year ago and they said to get the powder thru die for a .30 Carbine (C-13564) and it works great.

The .30 carbine powder through die will expand the case mouth but as far as expanding the case neck on the 30-30 the whole length it will be too short, as the length of a 30-30 Win neck is .477" leaving the bottom portion of the neck unexpanded. This might work for a short bullet that has a gas check but with be detrimental to a longer plain base bullet. The Lyman M-die will do a much better job.

[MK111]

I use regular FL sizer in the first station.
Powder through in the second station.
Use a old style Lyman M die in the third station. The old 310 style Lyman M die with a thread adaptor and M die neck expand after the powder is in place. The old M die has a very short sizing plug and will not touch the powder.
Seat in the fourth station.

I also load 223 with jacket bullets the same way with no loss in accuracy. Except with jacketed bullets I use a pistol decap pin in the sizer die and do not inside expand. The inside expanding is done by the Lyman M die. They fuction perfectly in a Colt AR15.

[Doc Highwall]

I should have added in post #18 that in using the 30 carbine expander that is is made for .308" jacketed bullets not larger and softer cast bullets.
The Lyman M-die is made for cast bullets and their larger size.
The expander should open the case neck to at least the seating depth of the seated bullet or a little more.