Herters Press Question: historical

[milprileb]

Does anyone know who made the presses for Herters.

Were they made in Canada or Europe?

Their presses are not conventional designs so some place
was outsourced to make them for old George Herter.

Of course, per George: all Herters presses are MODEL PERFECT

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

EVERYTHING was "model perfect" to him.

I bit on his hype when I first started loading, and soon learned his :veryconfu picture of perfect and mine were not the same!

Put together my first rifle from Herters. A BSA action in 243. rose wood grip cap and forend tip with the zigzag white and black spacers. They sent me the wrong length stock, and before I realized it I had already cut into it.

Turned out ugggggly, but boy did it ever shoot! [smilie=w:

Wasn't long til I had about the same opinion of Herters and I now have of Lee. :bigsmyl2:

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Pressman]

Herter's had local foundries make thier presses. Prior to 1959 it was the Bystrom Bros of Minnealoplis. After that I do not know. Same for the powder measures. Scales were sourced through Redding. Most dies were C-H. Case trimmers are an exacdt copy of Forster, but they may not have made them. George was real good at coping the work of others.

Herter's first press and powder measure were probably made by Dunbar, that is assuming Dunbar actually made the powder measure.

Lachmiller is the design basis for most of the Herter's presses. They were on the market a year before Herter's came out with the Model 3.
Ken

[milprileb]

Well, I bought the entire reloading outfit from them: one maker had it all type thinking in 1970 and it did not work out too well. The only thing that stood the test of time (often very short time for the other Herter reload equipment) was the Super O press which is a monster and indestructable: still got it . It has weak mechanical advantage compared to Rock Chucker.

I bought the BSA bbl action too: in 7mm mag. Fitted in the Herters stock and it was an outstanding weapon and drop dead accurate. I regret trading it off on a Sako 300 Mag thinking 300 was far superior a cartridge.

I had good luck with Herters ammo and some other things. The catalog was entertaining !

Forgot to say: They sold Kenyan coffee in cans and it was really good stuff. I used to drink it while cramming for college exams and it wired you
to stay awake all night. Wish I could find the stuff now as it was tasty but I would not drink it by the gallon. My days of exam cramming is long over
thank fully.

[1hole]

"(Herter's) Super O press ...has weak mechanical advantage compared to Rock Chucker."

Apples vs. oranges. All single toggle presses have "weak" (less) mechanical advantage compared to all compound toggle systems.

[Pavogrande]

Herter model 3 , $13.95 in 1957 and still going strong, I expect it to outlive me - It is almost exactly like my lachmiller and the shellholders interchange.

stocks for 03a3 and m98 about early sixties still hanging in - even used the "Belgium" finish.

A 308 win barrel for a M98, that I expect to finish fitting this year :-)

Powder measure , works ok, but I don't care for it. Use the Belding and mull mostly.

trimmer, 1960, was like a forster, but had a pressed sheet metal base rather than the later extrusion -- I made a new base for it, actually an alum v-block, and it still works fine -

Several sets of regular dies at about $4.95 still hanging in.

A primer pocket swage (large) still operational --

30 cal bullet mold worked fine -- but i traded it off years ago -

Have sets of 22, 30 and 38 cal bullet swaging dies, but they are a new acquisition and not operational yet.

I have found most or herter items to be a good value - but I did not buy a scope "made in Japan by german technitions"

thanks for the memories --

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Think I read a few posts back that the Herter's reloading dies were made by C&H.

Hope not, as the ones I bought from Herters for my start to reloading back in the 60s, were of very poor quality, the sizing die looking like it must have been reamed with a pipe tap.

Likely a supplier other then C&H.

The handle on the loading press, broke and needed to be repaired, but the Herter's stuff did get me started in a long time and enjoyable pass time.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

My entry into reloading equipment was RF Wells (of Howard Lake, MN)... a press, scale, Powder measure, and some dies I bought at an estate buyout. I had no plan to start reloading, there was 4 rifles I just had to have and the reloading stuff came with the rifles...little did I know that was the start of a crazy big hobby. Anyway, RF Wells built lots of stuff for ole George...til the was problems,
then RF Wells started selling the equipment himself. His equipment is nearly identical to Herters.
Jon

PS, I sure there were many other manufacturers.

PSS, Rf wells dies looked nearly identical to C&H dies too, I would guess that was just a standard style many manufacturers used...again, that's just a guess.

[paul edward]

The experienced old reloader that helped me get started in 1962, while I was in high school, advised me to get a Herters press, powder scale and measure from Redding, case trimmer from Wilson, and dies from RCBS. All of that gear is still working.

Sometime before Herters went away, I ordered a whole bunch of shell holders in case I might need them (and possibly because they were so inexpensive). Now it is nice to have the oddball holders.

[gnoahhh]

Somebody used to make an adapter that allows RCBS-style shell holders to be used in a Herter's press.

My old Model 3 press, bought in 1968, still gets used now and then. I was 15 at the time and sweet talked the old man into buying a whole reloading setup from Herter's. God, what a happy day it was when that big box from Waseca showed up on our doorstep!

[Char-Gar]

1. RCBS still makes adapters for the Herters press.

2. About the quality of Herter's dies. I have had numerous sets over the years and have found them to be of good quality. Fully equal to CH.

[Kevin Rohrer]

I know a fellow who has been using a Super 3 since he bought it new. He told me that Herter's dies were ****. Maybe they were C-H (an earlier version of the company) seconds or rejects.

[Pressman]

I have had spotty results from Herter's dies, the later C-H ones that is. The early dies are great. Herter's MK II dies are better than the standard Mk I dies.
Ken

[Bad Water Bill]

I wonder if Herters had not been there with their FREE catalogue how many of us would have been able to get started when we did.

Fantastic P R work (everything was perfect) good instructions, and tons of them.

I do not remember just why their doors were closed. Does any one else remember why?

[Reg]

Super Model 3 press, new in 1962 and still working fine. Their dies were a mixed bag, some were just fine and still going but where I could, I went to RCBS--- yes, there is a difference.
Have one of their Ballistics Lab scales and it really will weigh a pencil mark on a piece of paper if the mark is long enough and pencil soft enough !!
Got one of their case trimmers and after case hardening the section the collet goes into, still use it.
It was the Lee of the day and old George really did do us a favor because the price let a bunch of us get started in reloading where most likely we would not have been able. It all worked, some just a little bit better than others.
Bought one of their Arctic Model ( Super Model Perfect-- Guides Assn -------ect ect ) Sleeping bags, have taken care of it and still use it when the temps go down to zero. Yup, its warm.
Neat old company would like to know more of their story.

[smilie=l:

[milprileb]

Had the internet came earlier, I think Herters would be here with us today. I understand the 1968 gun control act made it too hard to sell its gun wares and if you recall, ammo was a registered item for a few years with this law until that was changed. Evidently the entire gun line was a huge amount of Herters sales and when this law came into effect, they could not
sustain sales levels to survive.

Today: they would be the Harbor Freight of outdoor stuff. Some items they had were top shelf.

The catalog was a classic ! Great reading and I got a lot of great stuff from it.

[Reg]

Have heard all kinds of reasons for the Herters decline. George did lose a law suite with Bill Ruger , something about the single action design, also there was a federal suit, something about selling feathers and such that should not have been imported into this country but George said they had been imported long before the ban was in place.
Have heard he walked away a broken man getting only $300, 000 for a company that should have sold for millions.
Many, many more stories out there. Wish someone in the know would write a good factual book about it. I for one would buy a copy.

:coffee:

[1Shirt]

I am still using some Herters stuff including 30-30 dies. Kind of miss the catalogs.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Back on my first rifle build, I knew even less then I now do.

So, sold my father's model 99 Savage, - 300 savage - for which someone should still be kicking me!!!!!!! and got the money together to buy a Herter's BSA barreled action in .243win.

Bought the stock, the Rosewood grip cap and forend tip and the zig zag black and white spacers to go between the stock and Rosewood, all from Herters.

And of course Acraglas bedding resin - which I still use to this day - and started in.

OOOOOOOOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh well, too late now!!!!!!

The stock was for a long action and I had the action for the .308 length cartridges and before I discovered that, had already cut into the wood.

Oh well, what do you think that Acraglas is for?

Ugly beast that rifle, but boy did it ever shoot! Took my first deer with a hand load, own rifle, first rifle with a scope - 3X9 Weaver old and good one! - and really got into shoot'in/reloading all with Herter's model perfect this an that an everything.

That BSA got sold traded and here a few years back I saw it laying on a gun show table. Still as ugly as it ever was. Wonder how it still shot?

So, yes, enjoyed those model perfect catalogs even if the set of 243 dies looked like they had been reamed with a threading tap.

Those were good days, but happy to have passed beyond and to a much higher level/quality of reloading equipment.

And yes, following rifles did look much better:bigsmyl2:, but never shot a lot better.:sad:

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[milprileb]

Hey Coot,
I bought stock and U9 BSA bbl action in 7mm mag. Was in college (Poor) and took the time to make this rifle correctly and it would drill pinholes. However, it was a bit heavy and long and by golly , just one heck of a rifle. Then upon return from Viet Nam and the issue of losing my left arm at the shoulder was looming, I traded it off for a 300 Win Mag Sako carbine thinking the shorter rifle might prove better if I lost that arm. Well....the Sako is a tack driver and wonderful, I kept the arm and I miss the old Herters U9.

Well, I am sure who ever has it is enjoying a lifetime of great shooting from it and I am enjoying having the arm working at 80%.

If I ever came across another 7mm Mag U9, I would grab it in nano seconds !

[mdi]

I just googled the Herter's Model 3 and got two different pics of presses. One looks like a plain cast iron "C" press, and the other is sorta an "O" press with the "O" sideways to the handle? Which is the Model 3 being discussed here?

[Pigslayer]

I bought many things from Herter's & never had a beef with anything. I miss them terribly.

[kbstenberg]

Pigslayer I'm with you. I lived near there outlit while growing up.
They were Lee Precision Inc before Lee Precision was.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Good to hear you have a usable arm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thought after a couple shoulder surgerys on my left side, I was going to need to suck it up, but thankfully it came back to where it is minimal effect on the shooting.

One way or the other, I was better off then you almost loosing out totally!!!!

They must have had pretty good barrels on those Herters rifles if yours and mine were any indication.

Funny story with my 243, first day out hunt'in with all my first time stuff as mentioned in the last post, I came over a ridge getting on in the afternoon and there below me was a buck and a couple does grazing 100 - 125yds below me.

Well, I sat down and carefully, VERY carefully, really REALLY carefully!!!!!!!! held about 10" over the bucks back and sent one on it's way Hmmmmmmmm????? missed? so repeat same thing, again and ?????????? missed again. Well that stupid buck let me repeat the same thing a third time before getting smart and taking off. Finally got him, but is sure a classic case of "buck fever." :veryconfu

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Pressman]

MDI, there are two Herter's Model 3 presses. The C frame is the most common and the one bsing discussed here.
Then there is the Model 3 Improved, a RCBS copy that was made very, very shortly before Herter's closed up. There are three variations of the Model 3 Imp and needless to day all are very scarce.
Ken

[dmitch]

Talk about memory lane!! My first centerfire rifle was a Herter's 243 barreled action in a Herter's Varminter stock due to my high school induced poverty. It would shoot close to "an inch at a hundred" which seemed to be the holy grail in the early '60s for us woodchuck killin' farmboys in New York. It had one problem.........it could not be adjusted any lower than about 5" high at 100yds. I suppose it could have been reasonably remedied, but with no extra money and very few knowledge shooters around me, I simply learned to "hold low"! I used that rifle for a year or two and, later, used it to buy a brand new Remingtion Mod 700 in 22-250 ($149.95) in Nov '66 and a brand new Redfield 12X scope ($99.95?). Still have both.......although I have rebarreled and restocked the Mod 700 to 22-250 Ackley Imp. I often use the Redfield on new rifles and to test handloads, just because the scope is flat out excellent.
I dug out a couple of old Herter's catalogs to enjoy the advertising hype. It reminded me that I still have a set of Herters dies, several of their predator calls and the Bull Cookbook. Even enjoyed reading an endorsement from Pat Boone regarding the Bull Cookbook. George (or his writers) sure were something!

[Sonnypie]

Still using the Model 3 C-press dad and I started out with in the very early 1960's.
Can't fault that kind of history.

Back then, the cast iron was more highly refined. Made it much stronger.
I have newer stuff I like, too.
But what will 50 years of use say about it? ;-)

[milprileb]

Sonnyboy from Left Coast.

I am with you on your fathers press !. Although I have many presses (and a co ax like you have), there is something wonderful using the old mans Herters press and seeing great loads punch tight groups on the range.

I have several loadings that I just reserve for the Herters press, using fathers dies and enjoy being connected with him.

The Herters stays on my bench. Its emotional and its gonna stay that way !