Case Pro 100

[parrott1969]

Anyone have any experience with the case pro 100. I am going to load ammo for a couple of sub machine guns and I think this might be a good investment due to the oversized chambers.

[jmorris]

Some folks say you need them for glocks and such but I got them for our SMG brass but use them on all now. This is my set up and a link to detail photos.


http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/casepro/DSC02028-1.jpg


http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/casepro/

[parrott1969]

Jmorris, I started to send you a PM before I made this poste. I thought I had seen a pic of yours ( shown above) with the case pro in it. Have you ever used it for 223 brass. I spoke to Mike today and he says that it is easily done.

[jmorris]

No, I haven't. On the two I have the dies are 9mm, 45, 40 and 38 super. Does he make dies for the 223? If so does he charge more because of the larger taper?

[Colorado4wheel]

JMorris, with all the stuff you make I would think you would just be making your own casepro dies. Your first born was probably made in a shop on a mill and likes to say "I'll be back" a lot.

[jmorris]

Now that's funny. The casepro dies are surface ground and I don't have a surface grinder...yet.

[parrott1969]

Jmorris, Mike does make dies for 223. He said that they are the same price as the 40 cal dies. He said that he needed to know so he could make the shuttle taller. I would think that you would need to purchase a different shuttle from him.

[jmorris]

Is the shuttle taller or is the adapter notched (green part for 9mm)? I would think the 9mm end would work for 223 but if the shuttle is taller it would also take a different cover that holds it in the casting.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/casepro/DSC02025.jpg

[W.R.Buchanan]

Does everyone realize that JMorris actually automated this machine and the actual Case Pro is a manual machine and has a lever to operate it rather than the very nicely done motorized setup in the pictures?

The machine is still arguably the fastest manual machine out there but it takes a considerable amount of effort to stand there and cycle the handle back and forth for each round. The Magma machine won't do bottleneck cases so that pretty much leaves this one.

That means if you process 1000 cases you must run the lever to and fro 1000 times. Any of you who haven't ran production machinery like a turret lathe or done any repetitive process for several hours a day are in for a big surprise. It actually gets real old, real fast.

The automated setup shown above on Morris' machine is probably worth more than the machine itself by double. Probably multiplies production by a factor of 5 thru continuous production as the arm doesn't get tired. If the machine runs on a 1 second cycle time then we are talking 3600 per hour. 2 second cycle would be 1800 per hour and so on. I believe his is variable speed using Minirik components?

You can't even get close to this with a manual machine if you are any older than 40. You physically can't keep up the pace for any length of time and every time you stop you loose time you can't get back.. 30 per minute for short periods of time of 3-5 minutes is all you'll see. Keeping the pace up and not stopping for anything, for an hour would yeild 1800. With breaks in the action every few minutes this would be more like 500 per hour which is still pretty good production for any manual machine doing anything. BUT! You will be sweating!

Best to hook up your kids to the handle and you stand back and supervise. You'll get more done, and still be able to pull the handle of your loading machines, cuz you've got to do that after you size the cases too.

You'll also have to deprinme your sized cases which will take nearly the same effort as sizing and depriming in the regular sizing die, and end up being another operation because you sized the case somewhere else.

Evertime you handle a part it is one operation, and every operation takes time and effort.

To increase production, you reduce operations or cycle time for the finished part or you multiply the number of machines doing the work. Doesn't matter if it is a gear in a tranny or a loaded round of ammo, it is still all production type work and the rules are the same. This is called "Process Engineering". This is the exact reason there is CNC machines in machine shops today. They don't take breaks, they do the same thing everytime, and nobody cares if they do repeat operations if it improves the final product or cuts work on the back end..

My personal opinion on this subject after running a machine shop for 25 years is you would be better off buying a second Dillon 650 and running 2 loading machines rather than using the independent sizing machine. Your overall production is not limited by the case sizing operation, it is limited by the loading machine. One loading machine will only put out X number of rounds per hour and it doesn't make one iota of difference whether the cases are presized or not, it still takes only one pull of the loading machine handle to produce a loaded round. Adding the sizing machine means it takes 2 pulls on handles. You effectively double your effort by using the sizing machine.

If you were loading .40S&W I would say you need the sizing operation, and the faster you can do it the better. .223 is another matter and it is a waste of time and effort, because you just repeat the operation in the loader. If you add up the amount of effort to size and deprime in the loader versus the effort of running the sizing machine and the loader you see you are doing nearly twice as much work . The only reason why you would do this, is if you were producing a significantly better product in the end. You aren't with the .223, with the .40S&W you are.

JMorris: Did I read somewhere it takes 5-or 6 Dillon 650's to keep up with your automated Case Pro?

Randy

http://www.casepro100.com/index.html

[jmorris]

I would make them for sale if the automation (gear reduced motor and mount) would bring double what a casepro costs. I have to admit I never used the ones that I have manual but I did run a friends once. I left the lever attached to my machine above so I didn't loose it, its laying flat in the photo above.

It's a 30 rpm motor so one case every 2 seconds, non stop. It would depend on how the machines are setup and who would be running them as to how many it would feed but it is faster than I really need, lucky for me it doesn't mind waiting on me.

You don't have to deprime before the casepro. The magma and other push through sizers don't do much for tapered cases like 9mm and do nothing to clean up the extractor grove, I built a pneumatic push through sizer first to find this out. In any case no amount of sizing in a reloader will do what these machines are for as the shell holder and the radius on the entry of the die won't allow resizing at the base.

[parrott1969]

Buchcanan, I am glad to know that you understand my needs better than I do. You make many wild assumptions and frankly are unwarranted. Me needs are for 40 S&W, SMG and M-16. If you understood that these have very generous chambers, you would also understand why I need to roll size. Sure its another step but it assures that my ammo will chamber.

Oh, by the way, I intend to motorize it. I have a nifty motor waiting to put on the machine that is really expensive. Sometimes it stalls, the gears creak and moan but it will get the job done. The name of the motor is WIFE. I have had it laying around for 20 years.

[parrott1969]

Jmorris, all he told me that the shuttle is taller. I will let you know more when mine arrives.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Parrott: I thought my post was written with the intention of educating people about realities of production work and what goes into it. :???:

I did not mean to offend you in any way, in fact if you go back and read the post a couple more times you will see that there was no assumptions made whatsoever. I mearly stated how much work both ways of doing the job would result in, and offered my suggestions as to how to do it in the most efficient manner.

I have nothing against the Casepro Machine, either the manual version, or the JMorris automated version. I think it is a cool piece on machinery and if I needed more production for MY .40 S&W shooting I would consider buying one. I would even consider automating it myself as I do Machine Automation for a living. See Omniturn CNC Lathe, my invention.

Instead I sell a $15 case pushing tool here on the site, that is used in conjunction with a Lee Carbide .40S&W Factory Crimp Die, for those who don't need 1000's + a week production. It does a decent job of straitening the cases out, but not as good as the case pro does.

Incidentially the Case-Pro machine is nothing more than a manual linier thread rolling machine, and the automated linier thread rollers have been being used to size brass for factory reloading operations for 50 years. They are also used for knurling.

Also if you look around the site you will see several posts on Bulge Busting the .40S&W. I have written extensive posts on several of those threads about how and why this cartridge needs special attention, and ways to to process the cases..

Once again I had no itention of offending you.

I wish I could get my "Motor" to even go in the garage. She has no interest in what I do whatsoever. Although that just might be a good thing? :mrgreen:

Randy

[mr.snakeman]

To update an old thread I thought I`d share my experiences with the Case Pro 100. For over +30 years I have collected thousands of 9mm cases from a number of different ranges around where I live, well over 100kgs worth. A majority of the collected brass is Berdan primed Swedish military stuff that many do not recycle (more for me!) because of the difficulty of repriming. I´ve worked out a system that works for me so that problem solved! The brass itself is excellent in quality and consistency. The problem is what the ammo has been used in which means a tremendous diversity in after-fired case dimensions that standard resizing dies could not always fix to chamber in my Walther P88 or SIG 210-6 barrels, the P88 especially (a real tight chamber: sometimes only about 30-35 % would chamber in it after reloading!), a real PITA, believe me! Purchased a Case Pro 100 in 9mm and since then the number of cases so badly deformed (which would probably have been discarded anyway!) are rejected even after Case Pro 100 treatment number in the per mill, i.e.: almost 100% case chamberability/usability, even with brass fired through smgs and having sometimes real big bulges. Now I Case Pro all my 9mm brass and I never have to buy 9mm brass again. I can basically use all brass that I pick up on the range, after Case Pro treatment, in any 9mm weapon! Oh frabjous joy!