5 shot 45 Colt cylinder conversion?

[GARCIA]

Looking at getting a 5 shot conversion cylinder for one of my 45 Colt, Ruger Blackhawks.

What I am trying to figure out is what load information should I use?

Can a couple of you enlighten me on this subject?

Tom

[frankenfab]

The hand (pawl) has to be modified as well, and the timing checked. You can't just stick a 5 shot cylinder in.

I would still limit that gun to load data for Rugers.

[winelover]

Why bother with the expense of a 5 shot cylinder? The Blackhawk is plenty strong! I regularly load 250 grain SWC's with 19 grains of 2400 or 17 grains of 2400 with a 300 gainer. If you need more preformance than that get a 454 Casull!!

Winelover

[tek4260]

Look at Hodgdon.com under the 450 Extreme

Also look here

http://www.singleactions.com/files/FiveShot45Colts.pdf

[frankenfab]

tek, that is a great article. I do see an error in that the frame is opened up a tiny amount for the .475 and .500 Linebaugh on the Rugers, at least mine was, and it was built by John. I would certainly be fine with high pressure loads in a minimum chamber spec cylinder that was fit correctly by an well named smith. I would not, however, push the limit with an off the shelf cylinder.

As far as I know, nobody is selling 5 shot pawls. The one in my .500 is clearly a stock unit that has been filed down. (I intend to copy it, with material left for fitting.) If you have more info, plase fill us in.

Best regards, Frank

[GARCIA]

I am trying to figure if the conversion is worth while or to have another cylinder made to minimum specs.

The work will be done by a recognised smith.

Tom

[tek4260]

Just don't get your 50K 45 loads mixed in with your other 45's!!! :)


Also, check out Jack Huntington if you are looking into a 5 shot 45

http://www.jrhgunmaker.com/

[bhn22]

From the man himself....

http://www.customsixguns.com/pricing.htm

[Potsy]

I used to think about a 5-shot cylinder for my Bisley, cranking handloads with 300-350 grn LBT's blazing out at 1500fps @ 50000psi.
Then I noticed I grit my teeth (turn my head, wince, drop the gun, etc.) with 260's @1400fps @ 32000psi.

For me, it just wouldn't be fun. Much less practical.

A new tight chambered, correctly throated, line bored 6-shot cylinder, on the other hand, just for accuracy's sake, might be another story. Cheaper to boot.

[Buddy]

J D Jones, owner of SSK Ind. in Wintersville, Oh used to do 5 shot conversions in the Linebaugh calibers. He still does custom sixgun work. I imagine he still does the conversions. He and John Linebaugh have been associates for years.

[subsonic]

IF you can get ahold of a smaller caliber cylinder (anything that is not a .45LC, but of the proper OD), it can be bored to .45LC to make a tight chambered, line bored, etc. 6 shooter for less than a 5 shooter. If you want that.

I'm not really that interested in a 5 shot .45LC. I think anything I can't do at 32kpsi with a .4525" boolit is probably better acheived at .475 diameter instead of 50kpsi.

[tek4260]

IF you can get ahold of a smaller caliber cylinder (anything that is not a .45LC, but of the proper OD), it can be bored to .45LC to make a tight chambered, line bored, etc. 6 shooter for less than a 5 shooter. If you want that.

I'm not really that interested in a 5 shot .45LC. I think anything I can't do at 32kpsi with a .4525" boolit is probably better acheived at .475 diameter instead of 50kpsi.

Just have to get past that pesky OAL, ratchet, gas ring, barrel stub thing that Ruger builds into its single actions to keep a 45 cylinder out of a 357 bore ect..

[crash87]

Garcia, Lee Martin over at singleactions.com and his article is a good reference and a good read, Tek4260 posted the link. But, usually the 'smith that does your conversion will or, should provide, you with data for his conversion.
Crash87

[white eagle]

I agree with the other posters about going up in cal
Instead of maxing out a 45 go to .475
for the same gain but with less (if that makes sense)
less pressure ,recoil that sort of thing

[Potsy]

I'm with Subsonic & White Eagle on this one.
A .475, .480, or one of the .500's would be more my cup of tea if I NEEDED more as opposed to trying to squeeze more out of a .452 bullet (Colt, Casull, whatever).
You could also probably pick up a BFR in one of the above calibers for what it would cost to run a 5-shot conversion from Linebaugh, Bowen, etc.

[RobS]

I'm not opposed to a 5 shot 45 Colt and shoot 454 Casull.

Why 45 cal for me instead of moving up:
-I shoot a lever action
-I don't want to move to the Ruger 480 even though there are a few production levers out there i.e. Puma's since the cartridge has been considered dead by the manufacture who created it, Ruger.
-Having a custom 475 or 500 lever action is entirely too expensive for my budget

If I were only shooting a revolver though..............the 475 Linebaugh would be a nice option.

[crash87]

I agree with the other posters about going up in cal
Instead of maxing out a 45 go to .475
for the same gain but with less (if that makes sense)
less pressure ,recoil that sort of thing

So now, it seems, with the advent of the .475 a 45 Colt loaded to it's upper most potential is "NOT" the way to go?
[I'm not opposed to a 5 shot 45 Colt and shoot 454 Casull.

Why 45 cal for me instead of moving up:
-I shoot a lever action
-I don't want to move to the Ruger 480 even though there are a few production levers out there i.e. Puma's since the cartridge has been considered dead by the manufacture who created it, Ruger.
-Having a custom 475 or 500 lever action is entirely too expensive for my budget

If I were only shooting a revolver though..............the 475 Linebaugh would be a nice option.]

But it's not the only option, of course. Instead of moving up, how about this.
As a 45 Colt shooter, before 475's, I have accumulated a good deal of 45 Colt, shooting accessories. Bullet molds, Lyman 454190, 454424, LBT 250LFN, 255 LBTK, 300WFN, and 320LFN. Reloding dies RCBS 1-steel, 1-carbide, 1-cowboy. Firearms 1-Winchester 94, 1- Beretta Stampede, 1- Ruger Bisley Blackhawk, 1- Colt SAA, 1-Ruger Blackhawk*. Not to mention the various sizing dies and all the rest that goes with it. Now you want to do it all over again, just because a 475 is there?
Now just because you have a 5 shot 45 colt, why does everybody feel you will be running it "WFO" every waking moment? Load it to Colt levels for plinking, Ruger 6 shot levels for hunting, and know you have the power level needed to tackle that grizzly that may want to take you out of your tent, while camping out in your back yard, or, you just dropped 60k on an African pachyderm excertion and just want to make it extra special.
A 5 shot 45 makes perfect sense, to those willing to accept it.
And just for the record, I do not have a 45 Colt 5-shot conversion. 300/320gr top end loads out of my Bisley 6-shot is pretty much all the fun I will have with that.
The, 1-Ruger Blackhawk*, was the one I had converted to a 475 Linebaugh. :twisted:
CRASH87

[crash87]

Double post.....Deleted

[frankenfab]

If I may drift the thread for a moment, does anybody else besides me remember going to Marlin's web site and seeing that a .475 Linebaugh was coming out? Then it just dropped off the face of the earth.

[GARCIA]

Frankenfab, was that before or after Remington picked them up?

Tom

[frankenfab]

It was 4 or 5 years ago........it just seems like a dream now[smilie=6:

[Bullshop]

Yes and I had the $ ready too. No buts about it I was getting one even if it meant staring down THE LOOK!

[Lloyd Smale]

personaly i think the 5 shot 45s and the 454 give very little gain for an extream increase in recoil. Pushing 350s to 1500 plus fps will rattle your teeth no doubt and if anything penetrate less then the same bullet at 1300 fps. A 6 shot 45 ruger will easily push 300-320s to 1200 fps and boys that will do alot of killing. I really dont think you gain any power by going faster. to gain power in the hunting field you about have no option other then going up in caliber size. Dont get me wrong i wouldnt mind having a 5 shot 45. WHY? because ive never had one and would like to play with one. Ive got a fa 454 and the only reason it gets used as much as it does is its so darned accurate. The caliber itself does little for me and if i want to deal with big recoil id just as soon be shooting my 475s or 500s. I myself feel that a 475 shooting a 400 grain bullet at 1200 fps is a better game stopper then a 454 with any bullet at any level. But bottom line is unless your like me and just want something new to play with converting a 6 shot ruger 45 to a 5 shot or a 454 for that matter is just throwing good money away if your looking at power increase vs cost.

[frank505]

Well spoken Lloyd, I 've shot 45 with 310 Keiths at 1200 for twenty plus years. That load will shoot through 900 pound buffalo heifers and even bull picket pins. If you want more power shoot a larger diameter bullet, I sure like my 500 Linebaugh with 450 Keiths at 1100. Makes bigger impression on buffalo than the 45...........

[High Desert Hunter]

Ever since reading the old Ross Seyfried articles on the 5 shot 45 Colt and his successes with it in Africa on Cape Buffalo, I have wanted one. Sorry for digging up an old thread, but I just happened to be searching for 5 shot conversion info.

[Lefty SRH]

The power from my Ruger SBH Bisley Hunter .45 colt is quite impressive. I cast MP Ruger ONLY 329gr solid and they are moving 1250fps and they group pretty darn tight for a production gun. That 6 shot .45 colt is putting out more ft lbs than my .480 Ruger.
Converting to a 5 shot .45 colt isn't worth the money for such a small amount of gain. Personally I'd rather have a new cylinder made or rechamber one of correct size from a smaller caliber. I guess a .44mag cylinder would work.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive kind of allways wanted one but its been kept on the back burner. every time i think about doing it i talk myself out of it. I love my 5 shot 475s and 500s. They make much more sense to me. My major arguement to myself is that i shoot cast bullets. Ive done enough penetration testing killing of animals big and small to know that when you push a cast bullet past 1300 fps performance can actually go downhill. Cast bullets will deform at those speeds no matter what the alloy. If they rivet or break penetration suffers severly. I can push 300s to an easy 1200fps out of an out of the box large frame ruger and boys that does some killiing! 1500 might get you a quicker kill on something like a 100lb whitetail but youd be a fool to tackle something like a buffalo or something that bites back with a cast bullet that fast. You might get away with it but i wouldnt bet my life! Maybe with some of the jacketed bullets that are specificaly designed for the fast but they there mostly for thin skinned game anyway. If you want a custom 45 consider something like one of Johns 6 shot conversions. he takes the same heavier cylinder and bores it out for a six shot gun. This will get you near 1400 fps with a 300 and gives you another bullet in the gun and its cheaper to boot and even slightly lighter. Personaly I think 5 shot guns are a waste with anything smaller then a 475. granted thats only MY opinion and lots may argue with it. But id bet that if you asked john hed tell you the same. Get yourself a 475 youll never regret it.

[Ed K]

Of course a bargain priced FA in 454 loaded to Ruger-only pressures or a little more is an "economical" solution. With all the custom molds available to the boolit caster, the long brass/short nose issue largely goes away.

[subsonic]

I would argue that long brass/short nose is a better deal anyway.

And don't forget the bargain priced BFRs...

[Lloyd Smale]

that is true. theres allways some real good bargins on FA 454s they dont hold there value like the 475 and 50we guns do. You can usually pick up a nice one for around a grand which is probably less then half the price you will end up paying to have a 5 shot 45 colt built by a good smith.
Of course a bargain priced FA in 454 loaded to Ruger-only pressures or a little more is an "economical" solution. With all the custom molds available to the boolit caster, the long brass/short nose issue largely goes away.

[44man]

personaly i think the 5 shot 45s and the 454 give very little gain for an extream increase in recoil. Pushing 350s to 1500 plus fps will rattle your teeth no doubt and if anything penetrate less then the same bullet at 1300 fps. A 6 shot 45 ruger will easily push 300-320s to 1200 fps and boys that will do alot of killing. I really dont think you gain any power by going faster. to gain power in the hunting field you about have no option other then going up in caliber size. Dont get me wrong i wouldnt mind having a 5 shot 45. WHY? because ive never had one and would like to play with one. Ive got a fa 454 and the only reason it gets used as much as it does is its so darned accurate. The caliber itself does little for me and if i want to deal with big recoil id just as soon be shooting my 475s or 500s. I myself feel that a 475 shooting a 400 grain bullet at 1200 fps is a better game stopper then a 454 with any bullet at any level. But bottom line is unless your like me and just want something new to play with converting a 6 shot ruger 45 to a 5 shot or a 454 for that matter is just throwing good money away if your looking at power increase vs cost.
Darn Lloyd, you are so right again.
The .454 is a gun that is over board. A .45 Colt with a heavy boolit at around 1300 fps will do anything on earth. A 5 shot can get you there as long as twist is right. There is just no reason to take a .45 faster. My worst deer killer is the 45-70 BFR with hard boolits and needs expansion to kill. I can pass the .454 with less pressure but NEED expansion just like the .454.
But the extreme expense to have a custom made takes it so far away I would have to sell too much.
The .475 BFR surpasses the .454 by such a huge leap it is unreal. Recoil of the .475 is less sharp then a .454 too.
The only point to a 5 shot Colt would be around 1300 fps but is too expensive for the 140 fps loss of a 6 shot that also works fine.
Those are with heavy, 335 gr or more, and a 255 can be very fast and work.
I looked at the prices for those custom guns and my teeth fell out! I can do it with off the shelf guns. I paid $715 for my BFR .475 and I dare a $5000 gun to do better. My .500 JRH was a little over $800 and bring your $5000 custom here and shoot water bottles off the rail at 100 yards better then me, OOOOHHH HECK NO!
It is like the new Colt .44 special that is real nice, case hardened, etc, but it is a special at over $1500!!!!!! It does not shoot better then any other revolver at 25 yards, sad is the best word.
When you pay so much money for a custom, it should shoot into one hole at 100 yards even if you toss it on the bench. That has never happened but they are pretty and I have nothing against those that make them. If you are rich, buy them but don't expect to be a better shot. I just might make you look silly with a Ruger.

[paul h]

Another vote for go up on caliber and bullet weight, not velocity. I was fortunate to have a shooting buddy who had the big bore five gun afliction. So I had the opportunity to fire many FA 83's and custom bisleys in 454, 475 and 500 linebaugh, as well as one of the first 480's.

What I found is that a 330 gr 45 @ 1200-1300 fps is a fairly shootable load. Add powder and boost the velocity to 1500 fps and the recoil increases dramatically, with no real increase in killing power.

To me the best answer to more power in a shootable sixgun is the 480. 400 gr cast, 21 gr of H-110, 1200 fps. It's a significant increase in bullet area and weight over the 44's and 45's, but most importantly the recoil level is not at the punishing level. Gobs of power is useless if the gun beats you up, and it takes a serious comittment to master the increased recoil levels of the 5 shot 45, 454, 475 and 500 linebaugh. And the 480 is also still a bug hole shooter when throttled back. A 310 gr cast over 10 gr unique @ 1000 fps will take any deer at reasonable range and recoil drops down considerably.

The only shame is Ruger never offered an accusport bisley 5 shot 480.

[Lefty SRH]

I wish my .480 would reach 1200 fps

[paul h]

And I thought my 7 1/2" SRH was on the slow side, as my buddies 7 1/2" was typically 50 fps faster for most loads. He even worked up to 1350 fps with lil gun using a special xtra long nose 400 gr bullet that is seated out to the same powder capacity as a 475L. Personally I never loaded up the 400 to see how fast I could push it. I did load up a 460 gr to 1100 fps which has slightly sticky extraction, identical to hornady factory loads. With the 400 gr 1200 fps loads they always fall right out of the gun.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/evefiles/photo_albums/3/4/4/344100033/944100033_EAE0A16E8587C2097834F98FDF1E541D.JPG
Long nose 400 gr lfn in brass from mountain molds under my idea of a 275 gr keith aluminum mm.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/evefiles/photo_albums/3/4/4/344100033/744100033_3339F6808143EE14AD3755B7E8638787.JPG

275 swc, 310 lfn, 400 lee, 400 long nose, 460 wfn.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/evefiles/photo_albums/3/4/4/344100033/844100033_4F457815F3FED409FA5A9BDDBFE64661.JPG

As loaded 275 swc, 310 lfn, 400 xlfn, 460 wfn. If the 460 was seated to the canalure the gas check would bulge the case. It was an experimental mold, and IMHO too much of a good thing in the 480. But that 460 @ 1100 will penetrate within 10% as deep as the best 475 and 500 loads.

[edsmith]

you can always spot someone who shoots these things, if they are right handed, their right arm will be about 6" shorter than their left arm.:bigsmyl2:

[2 dogs]

Over the years I have gone round and round with my friend Lloyd. But, you cant escape the fact that he is absolutely correct here. If you are going to build a 5 shot conversion, it outta be a 475. I have had several customs as well as including 2 BFRs. The 475s are so easy to make shoot, so versatile, and so much more powerful than a 45 as to just defy any comparison.

[subsonic]

I want some sort of 5 shot .45 thing, but the more I shoot my .475 BFR, the more I wonder why I want a 5 shot .45 thing.

[edsmith]

I don't want my 45 thing any more, the recoil is a little heavy.

[High Desert Hunter]

I will be sticking with the 45, simply because of personal preference, and personal experience. I have fired many a 454 round and don't find them to be unpleasant, now the 500 S&W, that is another story altogether. I look at the fact that the 454 round has taken every big game animal on the face of the planet several times, and Ross Seyfried used a 5 shot 45 to take Cape Buffalo, arguably one of the most dangerous big game animals out there. I have nothing against the 475 or 500 calibers, and in fact would like to have a Ruger #1 chambered for the 50 Alaskan. This has been some good reading, thanks.

[zac0419]

I agree taking a 6 shot 45 Colt to a 5 shot doesn't gain very much in a large frame revolver. You might as well go 475 or 480 if logic controls your spending. But a 5 shot 45 Colt on a medium frame flat top Bisley, case hardened frame with an octagon barrel..... That I could be talked into.
And the increase from say 255's at 1000, to full "ruger only" loads, is a much bigger margin. IMO

[Lloyd Smale]

ive got a new bone to pick with you pal. I badmouthed glocks all my life but finally gave in. Due somewhat to you praising them. Now i here you badmouthing them!
Over the years I have gone round and round with my friend Lloyd. But, you cant escape the fact that he is absolutely correct here. If you are going to build a 5 shot conversion, it outta be a 475. I have had several customs as well as including 2 BFRs. The 475s are so easy to make shoot, so versatile, and so much more powerful than a 45 as to just defy any comparison.

[John in WYO]

Look at Hodgdon.com under the 450 Extreme

Also look here

http://www.singleactions.com/files/FiveShot45Colts.pdf

Thanks for that Link. Headed to the Dillon now.
I just picked up a Linebaugh Bisley 5 shot .45 Colt;
to go with my .500 Linebaugh, from John also.

John