New to .45 Colt loads

[lead-1]

I picked up a Virginian Dragoon with a 6 inch barrel in .45 colt. I got some boolits from a member in 200 grain to try that style of boolit, I loaded six rounds each of 6, 6.5 and 7 grains of Unique. I shot them at 20 yards and the 6.5 were accurate enough to suit me fine.

My loads were Herters large pistol primers,
6, 6.5 and 7 grains Unique powder,
200 grain LRF boolit and
COL of 1.580 inches.
Boolit fit to the cylinder and barrel were fine also and I used just enough crimp to take away the belled mouth.

Mild recoil very pleasant to shoot but when I ejected the empties they were the sootiest mess I have ever seen on the outside of the brass from the mouth down about 2/3 of the way and each round had dirty unburnt powder.
Is this common for the .45 colt or did I do something wrong, I have never had this problem before

[RobS]

The chambers are sometimes sloppy on 45 colts in regards to today's reloading dies specs. Your load doesn't have the pressures to expand the case enough to seal the blow back. An option is to only size the mouth of the case only or increase the pressures to expand the brass. I don't know what your chambers are so can't tell you if increasing the pressures will take care of the problem or not.

From what I gather they were made strong so you can probably increase your powder charges without too much worry but I would double check on the guns strength abilities before proceeding.

[Buddy]

I agree, all of my 45 Colts will do the same thing with mild plinking loads.

[lead-1]

I was kind of thinking that these loads weren't hot enough so there was blow by so to speak but I wanted to hear it from someone else. I could not find a 200 grain boolit listed in any of my manuals so I was kind of averaging and working 175 and 250 grain booilts.
The 6.5 grain charges grouped well and on point of aim good enough to make me giggle and wonder why I never bought a .45 Colt before this.

[9.3X62AL]

6.5 grains of Unique is quite a mild load, even with 250 grain bullets. 8.5 to 9.0 grains of Unique is variously described as being a "blackpowder-equivalent" loading in 45 Colt. I've run such loadings in Uberti replica SAAs for years without issue and with decent to excellent accuracy. Same story in my present Ruger BisHawk x 7.5". Little or no "burn-back" with these Unique loads.

[lead-1]

I'll try a couple loadings above the 7 grain range and see what happens.

[Phillip]

Yea they are fun to shoot and easy on the hand with light loads.

As far as the soot around the cases, it is from the light load not pushing the case against the cylinder walls. Straight cases have a bad habit of this, so I would not worry too much about it.

For light loads I prefer Tight Group or VV N320 over Unique and HS-6 for standard/medium loads.


Pick up the Lyman #4 cast bullet book, it is well worth it for the amount of info it has. Also, it has the 200gr loads listed......
200gr RF
Tight Group 6.3 starting
VV N320 7.6 starting
Unique 8.9 starting

[RobS]

6.5 grains of Unique is quite a mild load, even with 250 grain bullets. 8.5 to 9.0 grains of Unique is variously described as being a "blackpowder-equivalent" loading in 45 Colt. I've run such loadings in Uberti replica SAAs for years without issue and with decent to excellent accuracy. Same story in my present Ruger BisHawk x 7.5". Little or no "burn-back" with these Unique loads.

According to the Lyman 48th Ed. Reloading Handbook, 9.0 grain of Unique behind the 250 grain Lyman 454190 is the upper end for standard 45 colt yielding 875 fps from a 7.5 inch barrel and goes along with what 9.3X62AL stated. It sounds reasonalble to use 9.0 for your 200 grainer and go from there.

[jh45gun]

Yea I would use more powder I use 8 grains of unique with a 255 grain bullet.

[btroj]

Or, if you are satisfied with the velocity and accuracy with 6.5 gr just don't worry over the soot. It comes off easily in the tumbler.
I agree that 6.5 gr is a pretty light load and is why you have all the soot. Thing is, you have two options. Increase powder charge and it will be reduced due to a better seal or just ignore it. The soot is easy to remove.
I clean my cases before sizing anyway so I don't care too much how they look when they come out of the gun.

Brad

[44MAG#1]

I never could understand shooting 200 gr bullets in a 45 Colt. Real cowboy loads were anywhere from 35 to roughly 40 grs. blackpowder. From my 45/8's Blackhawk a 35 gr charge gives 805 fps with Goex and a 250 gr Magma rnfp bullet.
35 gr in a solid head case is roughly equivilent to a 38 gr charge in a baloon head case volumn wise.
To me 800 with a 250 or slightly more is what I shoot for in my 45 Colt revolvers when wanting to go nastalgic and remembering Matt Dillon, Pallidin, Wyatt Earp and some others when I shoot. When I am remembering Elmer Keith I use 18.5 gr 2400.
If I want to shoot real powder puff loads I use a 22 pistol.

[white eagle]

versatility
different strokes
are a few thing that come to mind
wouldn't life be boring with the
same old same old ......ehhh

[44MAG#1]

I've got some 200 gr Lee rnfp bullets for the 45 cal handguns. Have never shot them in 45 Colt just a 45 ACP S&W but they weren't target loads either.
Its nothing to me I just said I can't understand it. That doesn't mean there is no application for them. I'm sure there is but I haven't figured it out yet for the 45 Colt.
Would someone care to enlighten me. Maybe I will start using them instead.

[Phillip]

Most of the time, it come down to cost and ease of casting.

Take for instance my buddy. He shoots 45 acp allot more then 45C, so he will cast up a bunch of RF 200gr boolits and use them for both, since he is only going to use them for target practice. The other thing is that he gets 8 more boolits per pound and can use a tad bit less powder.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Try using some 225 gr. or 230 gr. LRN bullets meant for the acp round with your Unique load.Robert

[subsonic]

If you can go to a larger boolit size it will help with the soot at the low pressures, doing some of the sealing by filling up the cylinder, but you may loose accuracy and pressure may rise slightly. Also the boolits may get deformed during seating if you don't use a larger expander to account for the larger boolit. Try more crimp?

[Frank]

lead-1:
Mild recoil very pleasant to shoot but when I ejected the empties they were the sootiest mess I have ever seen on the outside of the brass from the mouth down about 2/3 of the way and each round had dirty unburnt powder.
Is this common for the .45 colt or did I do something wrong, I have never had this problem before
Don't worry about that. They'll clean up easy. The main thing is keep eveything soft and gentle, soft and gentle. Say it over and over.

[btroj]

I don't personally shoot 200 trainers in my 45 Colt but that doesn't mean he can't.
If a guy wants to shoot a light bullet, so be it. As long as he doesn't try to tell me it is a "Real Cowboy" load I could care less.

Just keep shooting them and ignore the soot.

[sixshot]

Unique is going to need a tighter crimp than you describe or it will burn very dirty.
Its not the cleanest burning anyway, but a mild crimp makes it much worse, I use a lot of it in several calibers.

Dick

[ColColt]

My favorite load was 9 gr of Unique with the 454424 mold yielding on average 255 gr boolits. Nary a problem with that load in the Blackhawk or M25 S&W.

[lead-1]

This is a great bunch of input and I plan on trying some boolits in the 240-250 grain range also. I opted to try the 200 grainers due to an earlier thread.
I have some 300 grain boolits that I was going to remelt but I like this new Dragoon so much I might just reload them too, they are still big enough around the driving band to make a good fit in the barrel.
Its been a long time since I have been 100% satisfied with a firearm from the get go, it always seems that after that first couple of trips to the range there is a little something that you live with or want to change.

[lead-1]

oops post...

[9.3X62AL]

Its been a long time since I have been 100% satisfied with a firearm from the get go, it always seems that after that first couple of trips to the range there is a little something that you live with or want to change.

You are DEFINITELY among kindred spirits, judging by that remark! Col. Colt described my Ruger's most-fired load above--9.0 grains of Unique/Lyman #454424.

[DanWalker]

That 454424 is sure hard to beat. I like to push them with 6.5 grains of Red Dot, but unique does fine service as well. I like Red Dot because it seems to kick softer for the same velocity as Unique. It's also cheaper, and I use less of it per loaded round, for the same velocity.

[firebrick43]

Try some 5.6 grains of trail boss with some 200 grain bullets. Burns clean / little soot on the walls of the case. Impossible to double charge as well. I have loaded 1000's and wife loves them in her sheriff vaquero and a friend likes them in his colt clone. I prefer 255 over 7.0 grains of win231/hp38 out of my 5.5" vaquero(caution these are listed as max for non ruger oldmodel vaqueros/blachawks.

[lead-1]

I should've put this up first but here is a pic of the my new Virginian Dragoon in .45 Colt.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/96984dd0e4cadbc35.jpg

[Whitworth]

That's very nice!

[9.3X62AL]

Sure is! That target is none too shabby, either.

[lead-1]

Thanks guys and that is the 20 yard target shot with 6.5 grains of Unique under a 200 grain RF boolit.

[littlejack]

Very nice piece, lead-1. Good shootin also.
Jack

[btroj]

Based upon the target, listen to the gun. It is happy. Ignore the brass.

Brad

[Hardcast416taylor]

That 454424 is sure hard to beat. I like to push them with 6.5 grains of Red Dot, but unique does fine service as well. I like Red Dot because it seems to kick softer for the same velocity as Unique. It's also cheaper, and I use less of it per loaded round, for the same velocity.


I`ve been using this RD load for many, many years with both the Lyman 454424 and the RCBS 250 gr. molds. The recoil is very managable and gives velocities in the 800 to 900 fps range.Robert

[lbaize3]

That is a fine looking pistol. If you want virtually the same performance without the dirt try Universal Clays and a firm crimp. I like Universal Clays with my 250 grain 45 Colt loads. I use the 200 grain bullets in my Schofield reproductions but i load them with a max load of Trail Boss and a firm crimp. Both of these are much cleaner than Unique.

[lead-1]

Update:

I finally made it back out to the range with the Dragoon, this time to try out the 200 grain flat nose boolits and 8, 8.5, and 9 grains of Unique. I shot these loads at 20 yards as before and while the recoil was still comfortable the shots were scattered all over the place and got worse as the powder charge went up.
I'm talking like 5-7 inch groups at 20 yards, looks like the 200 grainers will have to stay at 6.5 grains Unique as that load shot great.

Now I got to get some 250's cast to try them.

[bigboredad]

try 9 grains of unique and a 340gr bullet nice and comfortable load and the accuracy will amaze you

[David2011]

Yep, keep the loads a little hotter and you'll probably enjoy the Dragoon more. Remember that the original load was 30 grains of black powder which was quickly moved to 40 grains. That is not a pansy load. I have let several ladies who wanted to shoot pistols for the first time shoot my Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt after a little time with a .22 and other smaller calibers. They all loved it. Even with factory load recoil the heavy gun and heavy boolit shove much more than crack like a similar energy 38/357.

David

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I sent a message to Thell Reed asked when the last gunfight with a single action was, never heard back from him. Then two years ago in Puyallup, Washington during the Western Washington Fair we had a shooting with Tacoma Hilltop gangsters. He stood toe to toe with another gangster and the shooter shot several rounds. He had a Virginian Dragoon. Nobody and nothing was hit. The papers said there were no injuries but that wasn't true. There was a cop on every corner, one had teeth and a tail. They say K-9's pick up the fear scent, well the shooting and the fleeing must have put this in fear because the dog ripped this guy a new one. The gangster tried to throw the Virginian Dragoon under a car and deny it was his. The court took a very dim view of him possessing a firearm after he was told he couldn't. They put him in a place to think about that for a long time. Oh, ya, he was using birdshot. So that's my last known shooting with a single action revolver. Personally I love single actions and the .45 Colt, enjoy your Dragoon. Post some picks of targets. I've been shooting 454190 with Red Dot, Bullseye and Unique. I just loaded some Trail Boss last night and looking forward to trying it. Also, Starline makes really good Schofield brass that I have been tinkering with. Can't say I've found the sweet spot yet.