LEE ladle pot and alloy oxidation?

[Canuck Bob]

I'm ordering my LEE pot this week and in my usual fashion have it all confused with too much detail. Its a curse but i doubt it will change anytime soon.

I am convinced that a ladle pot, Lyman ladle will do me well. Here's why.
-modest bullet production required, only 2 rifles
-I'm using mag shot and clean roofing lead so I can get good clean alloy without a seperate smelting step in the ladle pot
-avoids any potential fuss or bother with BP pot gizmos
-ladle casting suits my personality

Here's the rub, I think putting a barrier on top of a BP pot is a dandy idea to control fumes and oxidation, easy and trouble free. I wonder if an open top pot will oxidize my antimony and tin out with the dross during a casting session.

I keep picturing steady ongoing oxide formation while casting. With frequent stops to flux. Searching suggests that is not a real problem but I was hoping to understand the proper way to minimize this issue and not fuss continually with the melt or pot.

[PacMan]

If you keep your heat at around 650 to 700 deg. helps keep oxidation down. I also pour with my mold close to the melt and that helps also.
Dwight

[onondaga]

The Lyman ladle is very usable even when there is a lot of oxides on top of the melt. The spout allows the top part of the alloy in the ladle to stay there while you pour .

You can also learn to dip deep and stir with the ladle on its way out to push oxides away from the ladle for every dip . Doing that well will allow you to ignore oxides on the top of the melt.

Fill the ladle as deep as you can manage for every pour and the ladle bottom pours through it's own spout. Dipping shallow and pouring slowly is commonly what causes problems.

As soon as you pour put the ladle back deep into the pot and quickly guide it so when it floats it holds as much as it can. This keeps the ladle hottest before the next dip and pour. Some ladle casters will make some type of support for a ladle that holds it in just the right position for them to keep it hot and full in the pot. Consider that when you see how the ladle handles for you.

Ladles will gunk up the worst when they are not hot enough. I get it hot in the bottom of the pot , pull it out, open side down, and then immediately tap it with a dowel over the sprue catching container. This gets the clingy stuff off the ladle. That is also the reason I wear a welders apron and glasses when I cast. That tapping causes splatter to fly off the ladle.

Keeping oxides at a minimum is related directly to pot temperature . Keep your pot as low as you can and cast rapidly to keep your mold at operating temperature and don't work against yourself by dropping sprues back in the pot while you are casting. Put them in with a new melt because they really cool pot temperature.

Rainbow oxides after a flux and skim are also a sure sign you are running your pot way too hot.

These are just personal suggestions that work dipping for me. You may have a different feel altogether, Specific questions get the most answers, so fire away if you run into problems. There is a lot of help here.

Another tip for a new ladle caster is when your ladle is new and clean see what size drill bit just fits the spout. Keep that drill with your casting stuff and you can hold it with a pliers to clean out your ladle spout when needed. Do this with a very hot ladle and it is easy. Just push it in and out of the spout.

Gary

[Mk42gunner]

Ladle casting can serve you well; even though I have a Lee 4-20 pot, I still ladle cast most of my boolits, it just depends on the mood I'm in at the time.

I only ever melted down one bag of shot, but I seem to remember having to flux a lot more than I thought should be necessary. Of course that was when I was just getting into casting seriously and a bag of shot was something like $15.00.

I haven't used a barrier on top of the melt yet, but there is no reason it can't work with ladling; I was re-reading Elmer Kieth's "Sixgun Cartridges and Loads" a few months ago, and he recommended a layer of finely crushed charcoal on top of the alloy after fluxing. The book was written in 1936.

I normally flux the alloy good once it is melted, then I don't flux again until I replenish the pot unless I am having problems.

RObert

[Canuck Bob]

Thanks guys. I have arranged an order for a 20# ladle pot and sourced a Lyman ladle. I've also decided on a thermometer, in for a penny in for a pound!

I am planning to use sawdust for flux per Fryxell with a crushed charcoil component. Still use the stuff to barbeque, got lots.

Have one more question. Ladling instructions often mention turning the mould and mating the ladle spout and then turning both upright to fill. With the second cavity one must have to wait a moment for the sprue to solidify before casting the second cavity? It seems self evident but you never know.

[PacMan]

If i understand your comment/question right you do not want to wait for thr first cavity pour/spruce to cool before pouring the next. Pour the first one and continue pouring as you move to the next cavity.Fill it and let the molten lead wash into the first cavity which will form a natural trough for the lead to flow from the sprue plate back into the pot. You will need a little cant away from you to make this happen.As you finish move the mold upright and gentle shake it,more vibrate it, to settle the sprue.
As far as mating the ladle to the mold it just depends,Temp of mold and alloy along with mold venlation will decide that.
Takes a little pratice and depends on mold temp.,alloy temp. and cadience but after a while you will find the right rythum.
Boy do i need spell check.
Dwight

[onondaga]

Lyman molds are optimized for pressure casting as you were referring to. That works well for some casters that rave about the method. Some molds just don't like pressure casting at all and you will get voids ,suck back and hotspot shrinkage.

Out of over 30 molds, I have only one that insists on pressure casting, it is a big 58 caliber hollow base mold. But I bet if I opened up my pour spout another 1/32 inch that mold would cast fine bottom pouring.

Everything else I swirl cast and have described that on the board many times.

Saw dust/charcoal is a good pot flux and melt surface anti-oxidant. I also use powdered raw cowhide from the vacuum collector on my table sander from dried rawhide dog toys....my favorite!

Sometimes I use the dreaded fiery bees wax flux with a very hot pot to get tin oxide reduced back into the alloy, but it is really easier to drop another chunk of Lino or tin into the pot.

Gary

[bhn22]

If you really want an oxygen barrier, you can use kitty litter. One word of caution about this: Use ONLY new, unused kitty litter. Some things were not meant to be reused. :)

[Mk42gunner]

Thanks guys. I have arranged an order for a 20# ladle pot and sourced a Lyman ladle. I've also decided on a thermometer, in for a penny in for a pound!

I am planning to use sawdust for flux per Fryxell with a crushed charcoil component. Still use the stuff to barbeque, got lots.

Have one more question. Ladling instructions often mention turning the mould and mating the ladle spout and then turning both upright to fill. With the second cavity one must have to wait a moment for the sprue to solidify before casting the second cavity? It seems self evident but you never know.

I haven't had good resultsd casting with the mate the mold and ladle together and turn method, but I can see where it might work okay for a single cavity. I get better results pouring from about 1/2" away from the sprue plate, with the mold held upright.


Lyman molds are optimized for pressure casting as you were referring to. That works well for some casters that rave about the method. Some molds just don't like pressure casting at all and you will get voids ,suck back and hotspot shrinkage.

Out of over 30 molds, I have only one that insists on pressure casting, it is a big 58 caliber hollow base mold. But I bet if I opened up my pour spout another 1/32 inch that mold would cast fine bottom pouring.

Everything else I swirl cast and have described that on the board many times.

Saw dust/charcoal is a good pot flux and melt surface anti-oxidant. I also use powdered raw cowhide from the vacuum collector on my table sander from dried rawhide dog toys....my favorite!

Sometimes I use the dreaded fiery bees wax flux with a very hot pot to get tin oxide reduced back into the alloy, but it is really easier to drop another chunk of Lino or tin into the pot.

Gary

That's funny Gary, I have close to the same number of molds, and the only one that I have to pressure pour from the bottom spout is a single cavity 95 grain Lyman 313445. The darn thing isn't even that accurate for me, once I find another SWC in that weight range that I like it is going down the road.


If you really want an oxygen barrier, you can use kitty litter. One word of caution about this: Use ONLY new, unused kitty litter. Some things were not meant to be reused. :)

But my dog just loves those kitty krunchies:shock:.

Robert

[Doby45]

I think EVERY dog does. Blah ;)