Shiloh Sharps - Smokeless Load Suggestions

[vonfatman]

I picked up a very nice Shiloh Sharps - a Hartford Model of 1874. It's got a 30" octagonal barrel and has had a total of 17 rounds sent down it's tube.

I intend to shoot this gun. I am interested in suggestions for smoke-less powder loads.

My preference would be to come up with a load that is mild enough to use in both my Trapdoor and this Sharps.

Thank you.

Bob

[Bullshop]

You may find this interesting, I got a box of Buffalo bore 45/70 ammo in a trade with a Marlin GG. Reading the box it shows several different loads provided by Buffalo bore with a check in the appropriate box for what that box contains.
This particular box has a 420gn bullet at I think it say 1850 fps. They show another with a 405gn bullet at just over 2000 fps.
Now here is the interesting part. There is a list of all the guns that this ammo is deemed safe in. Get this it says ALL REPLICAS OF 1874 SHARPS!
I was surprised!

[rbertalotto]

I'm in the same boat..........Within the last month I bought a Winchester 1885 and a Pedersoli Sharps both in 45-70.

A few years ago I was shooting BPCR out of a Shiloh Sharps........It was a terrible mess and I never got accuracy where I wanted it for hunting and just 200, 300 and 500 yard plinking at the rifle range.

With these two new rifles I dug out all my BPCR stuff. Drop tubes, veg wads, blow tube, etc......Loaded up some Goex and FFg and headed to the range......Nothing changed. Terrible mess and not the accuracy I was looking for.

Dug out the reloading manuals and settled on a 15,000 CUP load using Reloader 7 and 405-420 grain lead bullets...........

Both guns show amazing accuracy, mild recoil and zero clean up.........

I know folks will burn me at the stake for not using BP........But I love to shoot. Hate to clean....

The best $29 you can spend is to buy an online subscription to Load Data http://loaddata.com

Amazing amount of 45-70 load information and very easy to research.

Here what my Sharps did this morning at 100 yds with Buck-horn sights. That's 9 boolits in that top group. The bottom boolit hole was a first shot in a clean, oily barrel.

Have fun!

http://images112.fotki.com/v106/photos/2/36012/9730091/0513111156-vi.jpg

[leadman]

I usually use 5744 in my Pedersoli RB in 40-65. It is very accurate and clean burning. I do not however like that they are charging a premium price for this powder so when I run out I will change over to 4759 or 2400.
I was shooting my Swedish RB in 8X58R this morning with the Lee Karabiner boolit with 4759 and got extreme velocity spreads of less than 10fps! I was a little shakey today but accuracy was still about 2" at 100 yards.

[myfriendis410]

I'm in the final stages of working up a load in my Pedersoli Sharps with a 517 gr. bullet cast from ww. Pressures are probably too high for the trapdoor, but well within the 29,000 psi recommended by Pedersoli. I'm using, of all things, H4831, and am getting some interesting results. I have a couple more speriments to try before I'm ready to crank out a bunch, but will report on it when I do.

That same bullet with 27.2 gr. IMR 4198 and a Federal 210m is also pretty sweet.

[NickSS]

405 gr bullet and 27 gr of AA 5744 will give you a good load for both rifles.

[vonfatman]

Bullshop,
That is interesting. I think there are a lot more of these Sharps replica guns out there than I ever realized. I expect the more I mess around with my new (to me) gun, the more I will find this out. BTW....my gun was purchased new in 1996...it's had 17 factory rounds down the tube.

myfriendis410,
I'd enjoy hearing about the results of your load work-up. I've got several cans of 4831 on the shelf. Nice hog!!

NickSS,
I will pick up some AA 5744....I've got to pick up some Trailboss too.




rbertaltto & leadman,
Wow....that's some fine shooting!




Thank you very much. I have a number (too many, probably) loading manuals but thought I'd ask here to see what you like.
I'm all ears if others wish to chime in with their favorite smoke-less loads.

I was given a box of 340tr cast bullets yesterday. At least I have something to try. I have also heard that Unique can be used...lots of that on my shelf.

I have not thought to check what my Shiloh is rated for in terms of loads. It won't matter if I keep the loads with-in range of safe Trapdoor use.

Bob

[pls1911]

RCBS Gas checked boolits 300 or 400 grain (400 preferred)
42-45 grains Reloader 7

Easy, simple, accurate and absolutely pounds pigs...

[doubs43]

I'd like to suggest that you buy a copy of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook #4. I have many reloading manuals, some dating back many years, and the #4 manual is by far the best IMO. You'll find lots of 45-70 loads for the Trapdoor, 1886 Winchester/1895 Marlin and the #1 Ruger. As I said before, I'd avoid the #1 Ruger loads in your Sharps. There's no need to go that hot... again, IMO.

[myfriendis410]

myfriendis410,
I'd enjoy hearing about the results of your load work-up. I've got several cans of 4831 on the shelf. Nice hog!!
Bob

As soon as I have a calm day, I will put a few downrange and report on the results. BTW, I shot that hog on my Avatar with my Sharps and a Barnes TSX handload. He's currently hanging on my wall.

[Doc Highwall]

My vote goes for AA5744 powder, IMR3031, and 2400 in that order.

[6.5 mike]

+1 for 5744. 25 grs behind a lee 405 gr is very pleasent, shots pretty good too.

[405]

vonfatman,
IMO- To begin with and to simplify your life and do what you are wanting to do, pick up some 5744 and maybe some Rel #7. For starters get some of the RCBS FN 405 GC bullets cast to around 12 BHN or get that RCBS mold and cast your own at that medium hardness. Use a gas checked bullet. Size to .459 (the Sharps will likely have a .458" groove dia.). Use a medium soft lube. Use a Lyman M to expand neck and don't crimp the case. My never fail, accurate load for what you want to do is 23-24 gr 5744, .75 gr fluffy dacron fill, RCBS 405 FN GC bullet at 12 BHN and sized to .459. It comes pretty close to duplicating BP pressures and velocities. I have tested, at last tally of my load log book, 122 different 45-70 loads. This load has been shot in Win 86s, Trapdoors and Sharps. The 5744 load or those similar to it in velocity & pressure using either Rel # 7 or 4759 have been the most consistent for all guns (of course the Trapdoor may require a bullet diameter of closer to 460"+) . That load is also capable of producing fine groups to at least 300 yds with the Sharps and good sights.

[peerlesscowboy]

My "go-to" powder for loads like this is IMR4198. You didn't say but I'm assuming your rifle is a .45-70?

Lyman 457125CV cast from Ly#2 alloy drops at right around 515-518gr.......sized .459" & lubed with SPG. 24 grains IMR4198 topped with 2.5cc cornmeal in Winchester brass ignited by a Rem 9 1/2 primer. Average velocity just a hair over 1200 fps.

John C. Saubak

[firefly1957]

vonfatman The Sharps falling block is a strong action I am assuming you have a 45-70 I load RE-7 in my trapdoor the load is from a Hercules pamphlet and a little lower than most manuals but it shoots well and it flattens a deer. The bullet is a Lee 405 H.B. bullet CCI-200 primer I do not have the load data here and alliant no longer lists RE-7 in that caliber online?

[myfriendis410]

Here's my final:

Lyman 457125DV cast from ww + 2% tin and frozen for 48 hours, sized to .4580" in my Star and lubed with my own recipe of beeswax, paraffin and surf wax.

The load is: 27.2 gr. IMR 4198 with an over-powder card and 3.0 gr. of cotton ball. Bullet is seated in the top lube groove and crimped hard in a WW case and, of all things, a CCI 250 primer.

Conditions were relatively calm with a 0 value wind of about 8 mph and temperature was 63 F. Distance was 100 yards, shot off bags set nine inches from the front of my forearm (node point). As you can see I had about 18 fps between fastest and slowest. I will increase my roll crimp to see if I can settle that down some.

I have loaded this same load with Federal 210 and 215 m's and CCI BR2's with nearly the same groups, but more velocity spread.

I will report on my results.

[vonfatman]

Thanks for all the great feedback!

Yes, sorry, it's a 45-70 caliber gun.

Bob

[curdog]

I shoot a lee 405 HB and 23.5 gr. of 4759 in a shiloh rough rider and its pleasant and very accurate.

[curdog]

That load is a 45 2.1 . Sorry.