Interesting 3031 situation

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Developing loads for my RUGER #1, with Starline brass, I have found that far before I get close to the upper RUGER level loads, I run out of case room with IMR 3031.

To the point where the boolits will not seat to proper depth or if so, only while deforming the boolit nose.

I know there are differences in case capacity, but I find it hard to believe there could possibly be this much.

I am just starting to load with boolits from my new BRP, .462/465gr mold and am well below the published max loading levels and unable to go any higher.

I had the same problem with the 355gr LBT I used last year.

I really wanted to give 3031 a good go with this new boolit, but I have no problems with powders like H322, RL #7, 4198 etc. and it is likely the 3031 will rule itself out of the running.

Groups are more important the high velocity, but I can't even get to reasonable levels with the 3031 before running into boolit seating problems.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[SciFiJim]

I know the answer is probably "it depends on the powder", but how much can you compress a load before it becomes too much?
It seems that much more than a couple of percent above a full case would cause pressure or ignition problems.

[Mk42gunner]

It depends on how old the data and how new the gun is. The first Ruger .45-70 rifles had a very long throat, Sometime in the 1990's (I think) they started putting a short throat in them.

The No 1 I had that I bought about 2003 or so had a short throat, I remember the 400 gr FLGC (Speer IIRC) had two crimp grooves, I could not chamber loads with the bullet seated in the lower crimp groove.

Max loads with the longer oal were several grains higher thatn the shorter length.

Robert

[BABore]

Using a 12-16" drop tube will likely gain you a couple grains. H322 is much finer than 3031 so that will help if you switch. H335 being a ball powder will gain you even more, though it is slower burning. With Reloder 7 you will get all the velocity you can handle, but accuracy is not as good for me with heavier boolits. The final option, and one you don't want to hear, is to use Winchester cases. They will gains you 2-3 grains of powder space.

[lurch]

I'd go with BABore's suggestion. I know it's not a 45/70 but I really need to watch how I charge a 223 case with 3031. My go to load for that will fill the case completely if I don't slowly pour it in and settle it properly. After that treatment, there is room to spare. I would think that a 45/70 might benefit more due to the taller case, but maybe not due to the significantly increased diameter. Don't know for sure how it would work out, but I think I'd try it.

[wiljen]

Bruce (Babore) has it right. You might also try Varget as I've had good luck with it in a Ruger #1 45-70 and it meters well.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Well, I have tried settling the 3031, but it has not helped to this point.

And your Correct Bruce, I have to many Starline hulls and don't want to hear about the Winchester cases :wink: [smilie=1: :grin:

I had problems with the 355gr LBT and 3031, but with the new mold from Bruce, the heavier boolit and the lower loads I was surprised to see the same issue.

I realise the boolit is seating deeper in the case, but thought my decrease in powder volumn would balance things out. NOT at this point.

I will need to get someplace below 48gr. for the problem to go away.

Until I get these loads out to the bench and over the Chronograph, I won't know what velocities I am getting.

The reason for the very fine mold from Bruce, is better groups then I was seeing with the 355gr boolit, so will be doing what I must do to arrive at that point.

However, I surely would like to stay in the 1800 - 1900fps range if at all possible, but only time and testing will answer that.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Larry Gibson]

Many years ago I ran into the same problem with case capacity and many medium burning rate smokeless powders in my Siamese Mauser. With the standard short throat of SAAMI chamber dimensions heavier bullets of 350+ gr started eating up case capacity. Once I throated the Leade to seat bullets out (throated for a Barnes 400 SP at magazine length) I gained an appreciable amount of case capacity. I can easily seat the Speer 400 gr bullets to the lower groove for crimping and the chamber and shoot very well.

If you don't want to throat your rifle I suggest trying some RL7. I have found loading density to be excellent and attainable velocities higher than with H4895, 3031 or other such powders. 2000 fps with 400 gr J bullets was obtained before the throat was reamed. I suggest starting at 45 gr and working up in 1 gr increments until you get what you want....or all you can stand:mrgreen:

Caution; the following load is my "heavy" load for my Siamese Mauser 45-70 which I refer to as a 450-400-70 in defference to the 4th level of loading for this cartridge. This load is with the Barnes bullet seated out and has a measured psi(M43) of 62,700 in this rifle. The load is 63 gr RL7 in R-P cases with a WLR primer at an OAL of 2.918". Velocity is right at 2300 fps and it lets you know you've pulled a trigger:shock:

Larry Gibson

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks Larry!

Used RL#7 for my hunting load last Fall with the 355gr LBT/WFN and WOW does it do the job on a critter.

Yes, I like that powder, but some thought says it give less then great groups with some of the heavier boolits.

I will however, probably give it a go during my testing.

Last Falls load was 55gr. of the RL #7 for 2290fps out of my RUGER #1 w/ the 22" barrel.

Think it is time to do some research as per burning rates for the powders thought usable in the 45/70 and see what may split the difference between bulk and burning rate.

Interesting game, and I will know more as the weather breaks and bench testing begins.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot