Swage Business

[frank martinez]

This is for you folks who already know the advantages of swaging.

A friend of mine is considering going back into business. He has lots of equipment mostly Corbin and is able to load for around 30 calibers with multiple options for each.
If you were in business or are considering it or have looked into it I would appreciate your opinions. Hard or Soft, I won't be offended but I would like your ideas of starting to sell swage bullets.
Thanks
Frank

[Utah Shooter]

I have heard that a lot have tried and it has not worked out. Just seems that most people like the fact that they can do it themselves and it is cheaper.

Either way I hope things work out.

[rugerglocker]

Ya, pretty much what ^ he said. I want to start swaging to make (almost) free bullets for .223, .357 and others. If I want to buy em I'd just get Zero's, Hornady's, Sierra's , etc, right?

Hopefully this does not discourage you/him too much, as I may be in the minority on that.

[plus1hdcp]

What happens when the hobby turns into a job? I am afraid the enjoyment and relaxation would be lost, along with the hobby. Just my $0.02. I enjoy the entire reloading process and want to keep it that way. I do however, wish you the best of luck should you venture into the business side of the hobby.

[MIBULLETS]

My advice would be to make/sell something that people cannot easily get. That you can make enough from the bullets to be worth your time. By the time you figure in the cost of the components, equipment, and your time, you will have a very hard time competing with the big companies when it comes to price on the usual stuff. The guys who make it in this buisiness have come up with unique ideas. Maybe you have already been thinking about that. If so, I wish you well. It would be nice if we all could make money doing something we enjoy.

Now, you also mentioned loading. Do you plan to sell loaded ammunition as well?

[frank martinez]

I am only just learning how to do so and am starting to buy what I need to do so. I have several calibers I want in weights I cannot find. My friend Bill is going to do this to supplement his income a little.
He has run into problems with the cost of insurance he has quoted to him.
He is concerned with not being able to buy supplies cheaply enough to sell at a profit.

Does anyone want to venture a guess at what swaged bullets should sell for?
Thanks for the replies
Frank

[Utah Shooter]

You would probably want to figure out the average cost of projectile spent for the dies you buy.

Example and just an example some dies may get more and some may get less. 800 for dies can do 10,000 projectiles before waring out making a formula of 800/10,000=.08. Cost of material and cost of time. Then go off that figure of what to charge.

I am just getting into this hobby. I am trying to do some .224 projectiles. If I wanted to spend .10 a piece on projectiles I would more than likely go with some Hornady Varmint, Varmint Nightmare or Dogtowns.

The reason why I am even thinking of doing this is so I can pay under .02 for a projectile as well as being able to make my own if anything happens to the world.

I really (and not to be a downer) would really only pay about .05-.06 for them. You may be able to get a lower cost and I do think any good set of dies should be able to do more than 10,000, it is just a figure to go off.

Again though. If you do. Make sure to let us all know. I do not mind helping out a fellow member here by buing some just to help.

[BT Sniper]

Does anyone want to venture a guess at what swaged bullets should sell for?
Thanks for the replies
Frank

WOW! I've been here before. Not selling but trading severial bullets. I have even seen a few custom bullet operations before.

I must say that any attempt to sell commercialy without power is bound to get old quick. As in if you have to manually work the press how many bullets would it take before you get worn out, bored or tired of it? With power, be it elc, pnumatic, or hydrolic atleast you take care of the labor then it just become repition and still could get boring after a while. Ever hear stories from someone that tests loads and bullets for the big guys buy shooting riffles/guns all day long? You would think they would enjoy it?????????

When I had time, before the kids got older, in one year I traded over 10K worth of bullets for brass to build my inventory all made one at a time on a manual single stage press. Now? not so much in the making bullets. That did me in for a while.

As for price that is the tough part. How much would you pay for a bullet? 10 cents a piece for 22 cal? 25 cents a piece for a good 308? $1 a piece for a big 375 or 416? $3 a piece for a .510? These of course being all offer by the big guys. Now I have seen custom swagers attempt to sell custom bullets for over $1 a piece yet can't find many of them still in business. Here is one that is making bullets many of you will recgonize. http://diamondbackcbf.com/Home_Page.html His bullets are all over a $1 a piece and rightfully so!

Untill our custom swaged bullets are valued at what they are, a truly custom piece of art that we are able to shoot at high velocites, I think we will have a tough time getting what these bullets are worth in labor costs. But then again we all know what price art can sell for :). Now back up that piece of art with exceptional accuracy and great terminal performance and you have somthing rare and boarders on collectable that should demand a good price.

If it was me I wouldn't want to sell any bullet I make no matter what caliber or size for less then $1 a piece. Problem is not many want to pay that much.

When you start selling or trading bullets they have got to be perfect. Can you imagine trying to maintain +/- .5 grains with scrap brass and cast boolit cores? Well of course you may not be attempting to sell bullets made from scrap brass and may be looking into commercial jackets but there you have anouther major expense trying to find jackets.

Friend of mine makes record setting benchrest bullets in .243 from Detsch dies with J-4 jackets all done up to the very best standards and tightest tollerences yet told me he only makes around 11-15 cents profit per bullet!!!! Can you imaine how many you would have to make!!!!

Let us all build upon the reputation these works of art has and don't sell them cheep! They are worth quite a bit INOP simply because they are unique and not many have access to them!

Shoot with Pride and Swage ON!

BT

[Ballard]

BT, is he getitng $1 a piece for HANDGUN bullets?

[BT Sniper]

YEP! 44 and 45 cal heavy handgun bullets. It isn't that his are so expensive, I think it is because commercial offerings are cheap in compairison to having to buy from a custom swager.

Can you imagine....... $100+ for a box of 100 44 cal bullets! Again not dissing him just showing you what a value learnig to swage your own is :)

Swage On!

BT

[gunguychuck]

I can't believe this guy is selling very many bullets. His bullets won't do anything a factory bullet from one of the big companies or good cast heavy bullet won't do. But some people think if it costs a lot of money it has to be better.

[BT Sniper]

I can't believe this guy is selling very many bullets. His bullets won't do anything a factory bullet from one of the big companies or good cast heavy bullet won't do. But some people think if it costs a lot of money it has to be better.

I agree

[ExcIsAc]

The average shooter won't pay more than the price of commercial bullets for bullets made by a home business bullet company.
As for what is a good price take a look at this website: http://precisionballisticsllc.com/default.aspx
Benchrest quality bullets in 6mm only at prices from $33 to $43 per hundred. But take a look at the process and equipment he uses. He is obviously doing it in large part because he loves it.

[frank martinez]

Good additional information and thank you.
In terms of the business venture, I doubt my friend would do it if he couldn't get $2 each for his specialty stuff. I have an order in for 425 grain 11.2 bullets and some 900 grain .620 bullets. I doubt seriously he would even try to make 30 caliber bullets for sale. He won't make anything for me or for sale until he gets his resale number and tax license in order.
When he got started doing this he did so after narrowly escaping being run down by a bull elephant that had a german bullet fail. I have several of those bullets in my possession and I know I will never use them for hunting.
As far as accuracy, I have seen some of BT's targets and they are what I consider to be "VERY" successful. I know it isn't critical in hunting but even a hunter wants accuracy while shooting his hunting rifle.
Do others here feel accuracy is greater with hand made swaged bullets than the average bullet on the market?
Average hunting bullets use a jacket of around .030 (correct me please if that is wrong) which is not really tough for hunting game larger than mulie deer, elk, moose or big bears. Copper and brass are available up to .065 for jackets.
Do you believe this is a value point?

I agree that handgun bullets are already being made by the major manufacturers at a price point that is unreachable by the small company.

Is anyone able to direct me to a metal company that will sell copper and brass at a competitive rate? Personally I think using surplus cartridge brass is the way to go but I doubt liability issues would allow that for sale.
Thanks again for the ongoing information.
Frank

[MIBULLETS]

Make sure you get an FFL as well if you plan to make them for sale. I believe it is a class 6 FFL for sale of ammo and components.

As far as using cartride cases for jackets, I don't think there would be any more liability there than when using copper jackets.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

If you were in business or are considering it or have looked into it I would appreciate your opinions.

Have He done any Market research ?
has he found a Niche' market to tailor too ?
If not, that is the very next thing I'd do.
I'd think the exotic Hunting/Safari Market would be the direct I'd take...
or in general, people with more money that time.
Advertising (getting known) to that market is surely easier said... than done.
Jon

[BwBrown]

"what a value learning to swage your own is"

This my friends, is in my opinion, what it is all about.
To learn a craft and be proud of it.
Bob

[frank martinez]

"what a value learning to swage your own is"

This my friends, is in my opinion, what it is all about.
To learn a craft and be proud of it.
Bob

Sage advice.
We are doing some selective market testing and I do have some very solid specialty advisors for African and big game hunting. It is more the aspect of the Business I am concerned with.
We are in the process of ordering some brass and copper to run some tests and see what the labor/expense/sales ratios will be.
In the meantime I am learning how to do this myself and have purchased some odds and ends which I will later use. I am also waiting on some of the new dies being developed here to become available. And, of course I am trying to gather funds to invest. When I started I had no idea of the expenses to be encountered in buying specialty dies.
Frank

[Reverend Recoil]

I have an idea for you. How about 0.224", 75gr flat base, round nose bullets for the AR15 hog hunters? It has to feed from the magazine and shoot well from a 1-9 twist barrel. Check the Texas Boars web site to find out what the hog hunters want.

[frank martinez]

Thanks for the lead on that. I think it is that kind of specialty use that may work.
Frank

[frank martinez]

Can anyone direct me to a source for copper and brass tubing?
Frank

[BT Sniper]

Ah! Frank, yes you sent me a PM. Sorry I'm behind in my pms and my 1K PM limit is sitting at 997! All I did was google the copper tubing size I was looking for. Can't comment on it yet as I have not recieved it yet. Seems like it was around $1 per foot with shipping. I imagine one could raid the recycle/scrap yard for some at less cost,maaybe find a better bulk price somewhere???

For the .250 stuff I used I picked it up at the local Ace Hardware store.

BT

[frank martinez]

Thanks Brian, not to worry about delay. I would rather have you concentrate on making your dies and things available. I am near the Oregon Border and was thinking I would even run up there and bring a truck load back when we get things going. For my personal needs, I am going to stay small. I was hoping you had a contact with a wholesale house.
Frank