454 data

[Dr. A]

Hello All, and Merry Christmas!

In my ever present state of trying to save money in one place and foolishly spend it in another, I am looking for 45 colt loads to be shot in a 454 so I don't use any gas checks. I've used Lee's 300gr. gas checked boolet with AA#9 to good effect at higher velocity, and use the RCBS-SAA-270 with HS-6 with medium CUP 45 COlt loads. This 12gr. load in my BFR and Super REdhawk are not much more than mouse fart loads, and was wondering how high I might be able to take the AA#9 with this 280gr. RCBS boolet. Book says 17gr., but I've taken it to 18.5 without any problem. I've heard of more, but would like an updated concensus. Any chance for taking it onto 50,000CUP loads? Pure foolishness? The boolet has done well with the Casull case up to 1500fps. I'd like to use the smaller case and work up to 1400 if at all possible. Thanks!

David

[felix]

Don't do that, David. Keep the 45Colt cases loaded down so you will always know that these cases represent such whenever you pick them up. ... felix

[Dr. A]

Thanks Felix, but i'm using Nickle cases for the downloaded now.

[45r]

In handloader 217 they show the redding 45424 going 1468 with 27.0 grains H-110.That is a plain base bullet of around 260 grains.They show the NEI 310 Keith going 1391 with 25.0 H-110.My favorite rcbs 270 SAA load is 8.7 power pistol with win primers.You can go up a little but plain base likes to go at 1000 fps in my experiences and I shoot gas check bullets for the 1400 fps stuff.Unless you cast plain base hard its gets hard to keep keep your barrel from leading if your revolver doesnt have near perfect throat and barrel match.A 45 colt with a 280 or larger bullet doesnt need to driven hard to harvest game anyway.The only advantage of 1400 fps or higher is flatter trajectory.I shoot the fast loads for hunting for that reason but use mid loads loads for practice and they are easier on me and the gun.The most consistant powders for me in the fast loads have been 2400 and Vitt N-110.They have lower extreme spreads and work well with cast bullets.I have never tried AA 9.I use lil gun when I use a ball powder now because it burns cleaner and better in cold weather and has higher velocity and lower pressure than H-110 but I know a lot of people that say H-110 is the best.Use CCI 350 primers with H-110.It will help it burn better.

[bobthenailer]

a 454 case with a mountian mould 260 gr gc ( lbt lfn) without the ck with fed spp and 9.0 tight group for a little over 1000 fps is pleasent to shoot and accurate in my FA 83s . with the same bullet but with the gas ck , fed srp and 26.0 gr 820 ( slow lot) for almost 1500 fps is also acurrate . but my lbt 300 gr gc lfn is the most acurrate bullet but i havent tried it with any loads lighter than 1450 fps

[lar45]

Just a guess here with Quickload. 45 Colt 7.5" bbl, 280gn cast, 1.67" COAL,
AA#9
20gns 1380fps @ 27ksi
21gns 1445fps @ 30.5ksi

How long is the RCBS 270 SAA? what's the loaded length? barrel length?
I can plug those in and try to get closer.

My Taurus RB 454 seems to like 1350 fps for best accuracy. I shoot 26gns WC820 with 320-350 cast, GC and plain base, don't forget the mag primer.

[Dr. A]

Thanks everybody, and Lar:

The boolet is .746 and the COAL is 1.665. You're darned close, and thanks a bunch!

I'm using these to work up "swinger loads", and may end up using them on silhouette's if I get interested enough and our group gets going with it. I do need a bit flatter trajectory. 1100fps just doesn't have quite enough poop to be consistant at 200 yards. I may end up using gas checks, but have been encouraged by not needing them at 1400 to 1500 fps in my Casull loads. I'm shooting these out of two guns. A 7.5in. BFR and a 7.5in. Super Redhawk.

I really am being careful to monitor the need for a gas check, but have been so far encouraged. I prefer to keep it without if possible, and have negligible if ANY leading that I'm able to find. The BFR has a super smooth barrel, and the Super has been shot so much, they must justs like that plain lead!

I certainly do understand the lack of need for velocity in hunting applications. I'm just trying to design a load fit for longer distance steel banging.

[45r]

You might want to go with a long bullet thet flys well against the wind.It helps to have near 1 MOA grouping to hit the turkeys at 150 meters.Most of the shooters use 180 to 200 grain 357 in F/A model 83.I use 255 GC 41 mag with scoped Ruger bisley hunter and save my 454 F/A for fun and hunting.After about 30 shots of 300 GC bullets it gets hard to shoot as well as using the 41 mag.Shooting offhand at steel is fun and if the recoil doesnt start getting to you you will like how hard the casull knocks those rams over.Sometimes I use my 7 TCU for steel banging and woodchucks ands thats great fun also.I save my milk jugs and such and shoot them at 150 for practice and that seems to help me get better at that kind of sport.A little dye mixed in the water helps with the visual feedback.

[lar45]

Adjusted guess
Just a guess here with Quickload. 45 Colt 7.5" bbl, 280gn cast .746", 1.665" COAL,
AA#9
19gns 1325fps @ 25.6ksi 72.6%
20gns 1391fps @ 29.3ksi 76.4%
21gns 1456fps @ 33.6ksi 80%

I don't know if low load density is a problem with AA#9??

[Dr. A]

Hello,

Went out and shot up a bunch, and it would appear at least for my two guns, that Lar's estimates are about 50fps ambitious. (though very useful) No extraction was getting difficult, but the increase in velocity from 20 to 21 was getting lower than from 19 to 20, so I'm guessing the absolute max for me would be 21. I'm more comfortable with 20, and best accuracy was 19.6. All loadings past 18.5 made it pretty easy to hit the 200 yard gong. (or as easy as that can be).

I got no leading at all in the Ruger, and a miniscule amount with the BFR. I've used the bullet in my Alaskan with sub 1480fps loads that didn't lead. This boolet just seems to fit the guns, and does little to destroy accuracy over a longer period of shooting. Thanks to all...

David

Lar,

In talking with the tech, there is no similar load density problem other than inaccurate loads. It is somewhat position sensitive. The problems associated with 296/110 are at least not as extreme. #9 is a little more like 2400 in that regard.

[45r]

I bought a saeco mold # 945 for my 45s and it dropped good bullets from the start.It is a GC mold but Im glad I got it.20 grains 2400 shooting 2 inch groups at 50 yards iron sights out of my redhawk.The bullets came out around 250 grains.They dont shoot any better than my 270 Saa under 9 grains power pistol but shoot 6 inchs lower so its probably alot flatter.Didnt feel like messing with the chrony.These bullets have a fat metplat and will fit any 45 with a 1.6 COL it will work with F/A 97 if I get one someday.This bullet carrys a GC but Im now sure it will chamber in anything and shoot flat and accurate.Guess Im going to need more gas checks.I hate to spend the xtra money but a 250 grain bullet I can push hard and shoot all day without accuracy dropping off got me to spend more money.The quality of this saeco mold is impressive.I hope I can resist from getting 180 for my 357.I know your looking for a plain base but if that doesnt pan out this bullet has been a lot of fun to play with and accurate from the start.Cast 300 yesterday good groups today,Very happy.

[felix]

Gaschecks to be orderable soon. Save your bucks for these Gators. ... felix

[45r]

Do they crimp on like hornady.The hornady checks fit perfect and I could press them on by hand with a hard sqeeze.This is my first GC mold from Saeco and I sure like the taper on the shank.This mold is one I will use a lot.Id like to give the Gators a try if they are better and less expensive.When will the 45 gas checks come around.

[felix]

Gator 45 caliber checks have an internal diameter of 0.426; you must tell me if they will fit that boolit or not. ... felix

[45r]

Shanks measured .456 at bottom and .427 at top at smallest spot. A couple thousands higher at seam.Do the gators have crimp ring like hornady.Never could get slip ons to shoot good unless I put a couple burrs on them with a knife.Too much work.Sold a good 410610 mold for that reason.