Dies for cast 30-30

[Linepipe]

I want to use a Lee collet die to size my 30-30 cases that I am using for my cast loads. Bullet is a Lyman 31141. What size diameter does the pin need to be? .310, .309 or what?

[462]

I may be missing something, here, but a Lee collet neck sizer die uses a collet -- thus the name -- and not a "pin" to size the neck. The die incorporates a decapping rod, but it has nothing to do with sizing.

You will want to "expand" the case mouth larger than the boolit base, the same as you would a straight wall handgun case, or the mouth will shave lead off the boolit. I think the Lyman M die is the best tool for the job.

[Ben]

The Decapping Rod ( what I think you're calling a " pin " ) that comes from Lee in the die set from the factory should work just fine with .309, .310 or even .311 dia cast bullets.

[Linepipe]

Yes, it is a decapping rod - didn't use the right term.

462, I can see your view, but I don't think it is not the collet that sizes the case neck, it is the decapping rod. The case neck is squeezed('resized"), forcing the i.d. of the case neck to match (ideally) the outside diameter of the rod. This pushes all neck thickness variation to the o.d. of the case neck.

Measuring my cases 30-06 that were resized using a Lee collet die the i.d. of the neck is at .306. (I use a pin guages to measure each case neck during reloading to ensure consistent neck tension). My current Lyman 310 and RCBS dies go below this for my 30-30, so if I use a cast bullet the neck is getting worked way too much to ultimately only need to be sized to a neck i.d. of .309 or .310 (.001 or .002 grip, and then a crimp with another die). At some point the bullet becomes a sizing die if the neck is too small (not ideal).

I was wondering if I use the Lee could be set up to get to a correct i.d.? And if it could, if the case mouth would still need to be belled to prevent shaving? I am not married to the Lee die, but I have had such good luck with them in the past I was wanting to use it if I could. At any rate I would like very much to not work the case mouth/neck the amount I am currently faced with using the dies I have on hand.

Trying to gt my setup for my 30-30 for cast bullets and wow - another set of dies just for cast to squeeze everything out of the rifle with cast?

Ben - nice avatar. Classy setup there.

[462]

Linepipe,
Yep, I did miss something, and you are correct regarding how the die functions.

[Pepe Ray]

Linepipe;
Before the summer is gone I'll be attempting the same job that your describing.
I believe that a wrap or 2 or more of 'beagling' tape on the decapping rod should satisfy the need for a larger neck opening.

I'm going to try it.
Pepe Ray

[jimkim]

I use a 303 Brit decapper in my standard Lee 30-30 dies. IDK if that helps, but it works for me.

Another thing I once did was drill and tap a steelcored 7.62x54R bullet so it would fit a 5.56mm milsurp cleaning rod. I think the bullet was .311". That worked really well with the fat(.312) bullets I load for my older Marlin.

[1hole]

Size your bullets to .308 and use the factory rod. Not only is there no rational reason to use larger diameter cast bullets it can actually degrade accuracy, especially in a rifle.

A tiny modification to your excellant Lee Collet neck sizer will make it ideal for use with cast bullets; chamfer the top of the collet fingers a tad so the sized case mouths will have a slight bell, ready to accept the bullets without additional flaring. I used a cheap tapered cone grinding wheel in a diameter large enough to fit inside the open collet (available at most Lowe's and Walmarts for not much) to do all my collet dies. The flare even makes loading jacketed stuff go smoother. Cast bullet loads seem to never need FL sizing and the cases last a LOOONG TIME, forever if you anneal the necks occasionally.

Put the die in the press and screw it down far enough to let the weight of the lever keep the collet closed. Chuck the stone in a variable speed hand drill and lightly push it into the top of the closed collet at slow speed. When the newly chamfered collet mouth appears about 20 thou wide, do a test case sizing; if the mouth flare is just perceptable and you can easily set a bullet in the mouth you're done. Or, carefully repeat until it works. You will love the automatic flare, so will your bullets!

[Ben]

Linepipe :

The pressure you use between the shell holder and the Lee Collet die has a BIG influence on how much sizing you'll get.

Try experimenting with different amounts of pressure on the die. I know this because when I first began using a Lee Collet Die I wasn't putting enough pressure on things. When I tried to seat my 1st few bullets they simply fell through the neck of the case.

Ben

[Doby45]

The aluminum tape will not fair well between the neck of a piece of brass and sizing ball on a decapping rod. I would imagine it would be torn or cut in two at the initial pressure point between the brass and ball.


Linepipe;
Before the summer is gone I'll be attempting the same job that your describing.
I believe that a wrap or 2 or more of 'beagling' tape on the decapping rod should satisfy the need for a larger neck opening.

I'm going to try it.
Pepe Ray

[Linepipe]

Doby, that is the advantage of the Lee collet die - it aint got an evil expander ball. It sizes the case mouth on the decapping rod exclusively. Massive goodness for the brass and accuracy as a result. Really shows up in terms of bullet grip, runout, velocity consistency and grouping at distance. Oh, and brass life.

[Doby45]

Yes Mr. Pipe, but Pepe was not speaking of the collect die. He specifically stated he would be placing the tape on the decapping rod/ball and therefore would have a "larger" neck. THAT would lead me to believe that he is sizing his neck from the inside, not from the outside.

[shooterg]

Pepe said decapping rod and that is all that is in the Lee neck die - it is a straight diameter rod , no expansion at all . Tape might just work, but I like Jimkim's use of the decapping rod for .303, and at only $3 from Lee, next time I order some "stuff', I'm a gonna get me one !

[Pepe Ray]

Shooterg;
Indeed, the .303Brit decapping rod would be a neater solution, but before I spring for the additional tools I need to be sure of my standing in my load development.
Probably an 8x57 rod would be handy in working up .303B loads also, Nyet?
Gotta check the catalog. Do they make it?
Pepe Ray

[mdi]

I just double checked, just as I thought, too. The Lee collet type neck sizing die uses a mandrel. The collet squeezes the brass neck against a mandrel "Decapping Mandrel". So, the ID will only be whatever the OD of the mandrel is (30-30 die set is .3055"). Collet die does not not squeeze the case then draw the expander ball back through to size the ID.; no expander ball...

[Linepipe]

shooter, wont you need the bushing too since the rod fits inside it?

Ben, gotcha on the pressure, never occurred to me to put a little pressure on it; always been concerned with "just right". I have, however, almost ruined one by camming it over in the press when sizing (very stoopid).

[Doby45]

If that is the case, I reckon some aluminum tape may just do the trick.