What sort of press is good for swaging?

[no34570]

Hi All
What sort of press would I require to swage for 44 Mag 444Marlin,45/70 454Casull (Rifle) and 9.3x62.?

I was thinking of one of the presses that there is a design of here on this forum,but I can't weld,would not know who to get,that could mill and weld it all up,or where to even get the material for it.

So I was thinking maybe getting a Lee Classic Cast press,are these strong? BTsniper can you comment on this please?
I see there is a person (up north)I think his handle is that makes the press for around $550US,but I think the cost of freighting it over to the land of oz,would be astounding,so hence the Lee Classic Cast.

Are there any mods you can make to the classic cast to make it stronger?

Any one?
TIA:)

[nicholst55]

Detsch Dies recommends either a Rock Chucker or Redding Big Boss press for swaging anything up to .308", at least - with their modification, naturally. That's the largest caliber they make dies for.

And yes, I expect the cost of freighting the 84-pound Iron Monster press to Oz would likely be something akin to the U.S. defecit...

[BT Sniper]

I don't addvise the Redding big boss. Many different presses will work and there are a few things to look for. I'll see If I can find a review I did a while back. One thing to look for is how the support linkages that attach the handel to the press. On the RCBS and the Lee Classic Cast these linkages are suppoted on both sides while the Redding is only supported on the inside or just one side. I might not have expaned that very well but again I'll see if I can find some pics.

As for the size of bullets you will be making I have of course made them all on either the RCBS or the Lee. Both have held up fine with no problems. As far as strength both have cast iron frames and shoud last a long time. As for the quality of the parts that attach to that frame I give the edge to the RCBS. Now as far as the ability to improve upon the design of either one of these presses I give the edge to the Lee Classic. With the removeable ram top it is easy to make a replacment that you can dedicate to swaging. Thread and tap this replacment for threaded base punches and it is even better. Alter it one simple step more and it is easy to attach an automatic ejector. I can convert a Lee Classic into a decent Swaging press far easier then I can a RCBS. All though the RBS when altered is very good also just requires a complete new ram.

Either one is a good begining swage press. Now consider your location and you will for sure not want to pay for shipping more then once and may want to look into a even better option. This will all come down to what style of die you plan to use. For my dies that fit a standard reloading press you may want to look at CH's champian press. Atleast 3x more expensive then the Lee or RCBS but what I have seen of this big press appears to be very good and just as easy to convert as the RCBS with the addition of an ejector.

Now if you plan to use dies designed for a true swaging press then either of the corbins or Aneat's design here would be a good choice.

What do you have access to over there? What do you currently use to reload with?

That 45-70 is a big one. I have obvioulsy made a lot of 44s on my presses and even a few 45s. the big .458s is possible too but is getting prett big. I've done it on my improved redding with ease but to attempt on a unaltered stock reloading press will test the limits.

By simply adjusting the linkages of these reloading presses we can use the increased leverage to our advantage. I think it may actually strain the press less because of better design with more leverage over less distance of travel of the ram.

[BT Sniper]

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1020428.jpg
Here is the RCBS, notice how it supports the linkages on both sides of each linkage as pointed out by the pencil.




http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1020427.jpg
Here is the Redding Big Boss. Notice how it supports the linkages only on one side. Granted this is my beefed up version from way back with bigger support linkages but still it is a week design INOP



http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1020409.jpg
Just to show a reloading press can handel the pressure here is a 1/2 bolt that holds the handel to the linkage of my redding. It was was just a standard grade bolt but I have a few 1/2" grade 8 bolts that look like this too.




http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/2009_1228bullets0002.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/2009_1228bullets0015.jpg
replacment ram with threaded base punch for RCBS types



http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1030097.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1030081.jpg
Lee classic with dedicated ram top with ejector




http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1030046.jpg
RCBS with ejector


Now somwhere I have a pic of a CH champian press that I made an ejector for. That was a sweet looking set up too.

Hope the pics help.

BT

[BT Sniper]

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/pressupgrade002.jpg

Here is my Lee all set up with ejector, new support linkages with repositioned holes drilled to allow for more leverage with less travel of the ram.

For $75 it is a good platform to improve upon INOP.

BT

[no34570]

Wow
Good photos Bt,thanks for sharing,I am thinking of not worrying about the 45/70,I have plenty of boolit moulds to wet it's appetite,but the rest,yeah,even right down to 7mm & .308

I was thinking of going for a Lee Classic,do you reckon that would be ok?
My nearest engineer/welder is over 150km's away :(
I would be going with your dies (When I get ready) to fit the press
I use a Simplex Master O Frame press for reloading,it looks like a RCBS press,I'll take a photo of it tomorrow and post.
How do you know where to re-drill for those holes in the Lee press?
Do you suggest getting another ram for the Lee,what do you do to make it better(The ram)??
Sorry for all the questions,but swaging has me intrigued :)

Thanks BT

[Ervin]

If you can git your hands on a RCBS Big Max grab it.
Ervin

[no34570]

If you can git your hands on a RCBS Big Max grab it.
Ervin
Ervin
What do they look like?,do they still make them?[smilie=s:

[no34570]

Detsch Dies recommends either a Rock Chucker or Redding Big Boss press for swaging anything up to .308", at least - with their modification, naturally. That's the largest caliber they make dies for.

And yes, I expect the cost of freighting the 84-pound Iron Monster press to Oz would likely be something akin to the U.S. defecit...
I reckon it would probably be more than the press is worth :shock:

[nicholst55]

I reckon it would probably be more than the press is worth :shock:

Have you considered pricing the work (of building a press) at a local metal fabrication shop? You never know until you try; it might be affordable.

[no34570]

Have you considered pricing the work (of building a press) at a local metal fabrication shop? You never know until you try; it might be affordable.
I will try one out,see if they can give me a firm quote for doing it the right way,will see next week when I have to go to the big smoke.

[midnight]

Ranger Rick has a big RCBS 2-A for sale on E-bay right now. Bidding is up to $107 now with 3 days left. Never used one but I have heard they are big and tough enough for swaging.

Bob

[a.squibload]

no34570:
(Mind if I call you 345 for short?):wink:
All my mods to the Lee Classic Cast have been done with hand tools and
a drill press. I swage 40s and 44s with BT-dies. No worries yet!
My point was to get into this swaging thing ASAP (As Stingy As Possible).
The Rockchucker is strong, but the Lee has more vertical travel.
If I had to increase leverage on the RC I don't know how, other than
stickin' a longer handle on it.

The plans for a monster press are available here (you probably saw 'em already),
maybe you could forward the links to your nearest machine shop and make 'em an offer?
If it was me I would just buy the U P North unit, but shipping is not as critical here.


BT: did I miss something?
I don't remember seeing the "handle link extensions" before on your LCC.
Main reason I didn't consider making new links was the rosettes for handle position.
Looks like you solved that problem and got a lot more leverage.

Dangit, thought I was done!

Still might want the threaded punch setup, but haven't noticed any deformation
in the ram/shellholder yet.

[BT Sniper]

The lee may be a bit stronger in the shellholder design. I havn't heard anyone dinging it up yet vs. the RCBS. Granted I have used my shell holder slot for swaging in my RCBS a lot more then I have the Lee. It seems the RCBS shell holder will deform just a little then stop. I can continue to use it with standard base punches but sometimes need a bit of help from a long flat screw driver to force the punch in or out. Any swaging I do on the Lee I use a custom threaded ram top for.

Yes it would be difficult to increase the leverage of the RCBS without complete new custom links.

Yes the handle link extensions are pretty darn slick that allows us to use the stock links without drilling any holes yet still get even more leverage and less travel. It is in final stages of R&D.

Swage On!

BTSniper

[a.squibload]

Well those extensions look good!

My trouble with the shellholder slot is my ejector rides right next to the groove
for the retainer spring, had to remove the spring.
Really have to watch for the punch trying to fall out.
I'll make another retainer sooner or later.

[no34570]

no34570:
(Mind if I call you 345 for short?)

Go right ahead mate :)


All my mods to the Lee Classic Cast have been done with hand tools and
a drill press. I swage 40s and 44s with BT-dies. No worries yet!
My point was to get into this swaging thing ASAP (As Stingy As Possible).
The Rockchucker is strong, but the Lee has more vertical travel.
If I had to increase leverage on the RC I don't know how, other than
stickin' a longer handle on it.
Haha,I like that ASAP (As Stingy As Possible) :)
I think I will go with a Lee,if I can't get a good price for the swagging press from the plans.


The plans for a monster press are available here (you probably saw 'em already),
maybe you could forward the links to your nearest machine shop and make 'em an offer?
If it was me I would just buy the U P North unit, but shipping is not as critical here.
Yeah,I have seen the plans here and I will get a price,but the bit in buying there and then getting it over to Oz,that would be uneconomical. I was going to order a Lee Classic Cast from Factorysales,they wanted $105US to send to me for a $73.00 press :(

Thanks mate,I'll try a machine shop here in Oz,but either way,I'm in for an expensive freight charge here too.

[no34570]

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/pressupgrade002.jpg

Here is my Lee all set up with ejector, new support linkages with repositioned holes drilled to allow for more leverage with less travel of the ram.

For $75 it is a good platform to improve upon INOP.

BT

Bt
Pardon my lack of understanding,but what is that contraption on the press,with the allthread,plates of steel ,,,,,:groner:
Sorry,but I'm wondering if I've missed something here?

[BT Sniper]

That contraption is what makes swaging on a reloading press all worth while. It is an automatic ejector that will eject the bullet on teh downward stroke of the ram.

I am finding that it is necessary for riffle caliber bullets too with small delicate meplats that may get damaged if we simply use a hammer to eject the bullet instead of the steady pressure applied by this automatic ejector.

I do offer all the upgrade parts as shone in the pics and severial members here are allready using it with great results.

BT

[no34570]

That contraption is what makes swaging on a reloading press all worth while. It is an automatic ejector that will eject the bullet on teh downward stroke of the ram.

I am finding that it is necessary for riffle caliber bullets too with small delicate meplats that may get damaged if we simply use a hammer to eject the bullet instead of the steady pressure applied by this automatic ejector.

I do offer all the upgrade parts as shone in the pics and severial members here are allready using it with great results.

BT
Thanks for the clarification,kind sir:D
Hmmm..........might have to get one of them as well.

[taminsong]

BT,

Sir, will you be kind enough to post the prices of the upgrade parts for the Lee Classic?

I have a Lee Classic press and been pondering on doing some swaging for my 357mag GP100 but just couldn't figure out the best way to do it.

Thanks for posting those pics above, it helps a lot!

[BT Sniper]

To use the ejector I make for the Lee it requires a new top for the ram. This is a very good idea as the new top I designed is threaded for 1/2-20TPI which allows us to use threaded base punches and saves the orginal ram top for reloading. This way you don't have to worry about dinging up the shell holder slot. Switching between the two rams takes less then a minute because of the threaded ram Lee uses. I think it is a very good set up and it is how I do all my swaging on the Lee classic casts.

I can offer this combination of a new dedicated swaging ram and ejector for around $125 plus S&H. As far as the new linkages and extensions I am still working on them.

BT

[rugerglocker]

Go right ahead mate :)

I was going to order a Lee Classic Cast from Factorysales,they wanted $105US to send to me for a $73.00 press :(



That's not bad, can't remember what I paid for shipping in the states, but it wasn't too much less than that.

Think the damn thing weighs close to 20 lbs. Oh sorry 9.09 kilos ;-)

[rugerglocker]

To use the ejector I make for the Lee it requires a new top for the ram. This is a very good idea as the new top I designed is threaded for 1/2-20TPI which allows us to use threaded base punches and saves the orginal ram top for reloading. This way you don't have to worry about dinging up the shell holder slot. Switching between the two rams takes less then a minute because of the threaded ram Lee uses. I think it is a very good set up and it is how I do all my swaging on the Lee classic casts.

I can offer this combination of a new dedicated swaging ram and ejector for around $125 plus S&H. As far as the new linkages and extensions I am still working on them.

BT

How about for the RCBS RCII? Maybe just for the ejector because the ram is different. Or do you need the replacement ram for the ejector to work? Thanks

[BT Sniper]

Yes I have made, sold, and can offer ejectors for the RCBS RC as well. Matter of fact the ejector I make will fit any press with 1" ram. It is a bit more labor but works just as well. Cost would be the same $125 yet would not include the dedicated ram like the Lee kit I offer.

No you don't need a new ram for it to work on the RCBS.

Any diameter ram is possible for use with this ejector I just custom taylor it to size and all it takes is to tighten two bolts to hold it in place.

BT

[BT Sniper]

That's not bad, can't remember what I paid for shipping in the states, but it wasn't too much less than that.

Think the damn thing weighs close to 20 lbs. Oh sorry 9.09 kilos ;-)

I agree. Not to bad. Any shipping here in the states is atleast $15, so an extra $15 to get to your side of the pond dosn't seem like much. If it where me I would see if it was a better deal, % wise, on shipping if you bought two presses :) Then turn/resale one of them to a friend in need.

BT

[no34570]

I can get a Lee Classic Cast press here in Oz for $135 +$15 to ship it to my state
I'll probably go with that??????

[no34570]

Wow
Good photos Bt,thanks for sharing,I am thinking of not worrying about the 45/70,I have plenty of boolit moulds to wet it's appetite,but the rest,yeah,even right down to 7mm & .308

I know I said I'm not worrying about the 45/70,but bugger it,I want to make my own bullets for it in my Ruger #3,there are times when a bloke needs a J-word bullet(sorry all you lead casters,I'm one of them too) ;)

[no34570]

The dearest for a Lee press here in Oz,was for $205,cheapest was $135,a lot of them around the $170 mark :o

[no34570]

I agree. Not to bad. Any shipping here in the states is atleast $15, so an extra $15 to get to your side of the pond dosn't seem like much. If it where me I would see if it was a better deal, % wise, on shipping if you bought two presses :) Then turn/resale one of them to a friend in need.

BT
I reckon $105.00 US just for one press to Australia,is a bit much,just imagine if I got two:shock:,but then I am stingy.

[BT Sniper]

I may be cornfused. Was the price of $105 for the press and the shipping or just the shipping!

I bet I was confused and it would have been $180 for the press to your door wasn't it?

In that case maybe other options do need to be looked at. As in local options for a Lee rather then paying high $100 shipping costs.

BT

[midnight]

Too bad price is an object. I've used the Corbin CSP-1 to swage 0.458 bullets for the 577-450 Martini-Henry and it was a piece of cake. It's only $600, pocket change, but boy does it work.

Bob

[no34570]

I may be cornfused. Was the price of $105 for the press and the shipping or just the shipping!

I bet I was confused and it would have been $180 for the press to your door wasn't it?

In that case maybe other options do need to be looked at. As in local options for a Lee rather then paying high $100 shipping costs.

BT
BT
Yep,it was just $105 US for Shipping +$73.00US for the press:-(

[no34570]

Too bad price is an object. I've used the Corbin CSP-1 to swage 0.458 bullets for the 577-450 Martini-Henry and it was a piece of cake. It's only $600, pocket change, but boy does it work.

Bob
Yeah,but I'm stingy mate ;)
Still would have to get it over here to Australia.:(

[no34570]

BT
Hey I was bored,so I surfed the net looking for anything that took my fancy,came across this press,looks like a Lee Classic Cast with the Breechlock bushing on it,what do you think?
Would that be good for swagging?
Here is the link
http://www.smartreloadermfg.com/markxvireloadingpress.html

[a.squibload]

I'm no expert, but it looks like Lee parts on a Lee frame!

[nicholst55]

If I'm not mistaken, that's the C-H-E-A-P Chinese press that some places have been selling for around $30. As I understand it, it is suitable for use as a door-stop, paperweight, or a drag weight for a small dog. Also perhaps as a trotline sinker. Not for anything even closely related to reloading. The ram has significant slop within the casting, and the alignment between the ram and press head is, well, nonexistent.

Don't waste your money on it, but don't take my word for it - there are a couple of threads on this site about that ***.

[BT Sniper]

I think Nicholst summed it up pretty good. I don't know anything about that press but it is obviously a Lee Classic Cast copy and with such strong feelings posted against it I would not purchase one. I am very happy with the actual original Lee press and don't see myself getting a copy when the orginal can be had for under $100.

I don't know about swaging with a breach lock either. Everything is all threads for me.

Seems like I have seen these advertised in reloading mags and seemed like it was around the $90 range but still it is Lee for me.


BT

[no34570]

If I'm not mistaken, that's the C-H-E-A-P Chinese press that some places have been selling for around $30. As I understand it, it is suitable for use as a door-stop, paperweight, or a drag weight for a small dog. Also perhaps as a trotline sinker. Not for anything even closely related to reloading. The ram has significant slop within the casting, and the alignment between the ram and press head is, well, nonexistent.

Don't waste your money on it, but don't take my word for it - there are a couple of threads on this site about that ***.
nicholst55
Believe it or not,I have seen this advertised for around $240 Aus:eek:
Don't worry,I won't get one,I'll go for the Lee or if the machinist I contacted comes up with the goods,the Cast Boolit Swage Press I will get him to build.

[357 Voodoo]

345 is this the press you currently have
http://www.jansa.com.au/newphotos/reload/Simplex%20page%202.O%20Frame%20press%20$230-s.jpg

if so i would think it would be plenty strong enough to start with

[BT Sniper]

Looks just like a Lyman Orange Crusher press.

The Lyman has been reviewed on this sight before but not for swaging use. I have this lymen press and it looked to be good enough for swaging but it has a pretty noticable cam over that can be a bother for swaging purposes. Maybe some sort of stop could be designed to limit the cam over ????

345 do you notice this same cam over on your press?

[BT Sniper]

345

It looks like the reviews for the smartreloader press are for the less expensive $30 "800" model. I haven't seen any reviews for this mark XVI yet. This markXVI actually looks exactly like the Lee classic with a quick lock and load feature.

Are you able to get these in OZ cheaper then the Lee? Still not sure about the quailty vs. the Lee as many hear are happy with the Lee Classic but again we don't live on your side of the world either.

BT

[no34570]

Bt

Are you able to get these in OZ cheaper then the Lee? Still not sure about the quailty vs. the Lee as many hear are happy with the Lee Classic but again we don't live on your side of the world either.
Went to the distributor of these website,rrp$274.90,so not getting this press,will get a Lee

[no34570]

345 is this the press you currently have
http://www.jansa.com.au/newphotos/reload/Simplex%20page%202.O%20Frame%20press%20$230-s.jpg

if so i would think it would be plenty strong enough to start with
That is exactly what I'm using for reloading at the moment.
Same Press.

[no34570]

Looks just like a Lyman Orange Crusher press.

The Lyman has been reviewed on this sight before but not for swaging use. I have this lymen press and it looked to be good enough for swaging but it has a pretty noticable cam over that can be a bother for swaging purposes. Maybe some sort of stop could be designed to limit the cam over ????

345 do you notice this same cam over on your press?
Not sure what you mean BT???:-(
But this is the only press I have to reload all my calibers with,hence why I wanted to get a Lee or??,so I can still reload and do swagging.

[MIBULLETS]

Looks like a blue Rockchucker to me.

[no34570]

Looks like a blue Rockchucker to me.

MIBULLETS
That is what I think it is too ;)

[miestro_jerry]

I am using a Herters swaging prees, but currently I dies for 45 and 38, I am looking for dies for 308 at the moments. Any one seee one of these sand I will buy it.

Jerry

[a.squibload]

Not sure what you mean BT???:-(
But this is the only press I have to reload all my calibers with,hence why I wanted to get a Lee or??,so I can still reload and do swagging.

Is "cam over" what you questioned? I was hung on that term for a while.
Here's a thread, my fix for Rockchucker cam over (in case it's a bother) is in post #51:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=57170&highlight=cam&page=3
Don't know if it would apply to the Lyman.

[BT Sniper]

Cam over- Top dead center of the top of the stroke of the ram. Most presses will stop there. Some go a little further and it will release all the pressure you have on the formed bulllet as you go to the built in stops of the press. Basicly the ram goes back down just a little bit as you pass the top of the stroke of the press. This can be a bother as I said when making bullets depending on just how far past top dead center the ram travels.

Difficult to explane I guess- maybe imagin a high poundage compond bow with the cams. They build a lot of force then let off a certain percentage when you reach the stops. Well same thing happend to me when using the Laymen to swage. It build pressure as I formed the bulllet then let it all off as I passed the cam over point of the press till I reached the built in stops of the press. Then I had to get the ram back down but had to go threw the whole cam action again in reverse. Build all the pressure again in a short distance back to top of the ram stroke then finally all the way back down with the ram.

OK maybe one more attempt. Think of a graph. The pressure builds in a steady gradual climb and we reach max pressure obviously at the top of the ram stroke, you get a graph that has a gradual climb in pressure with a peak. Now imagine you fall sharply off the back of that pressure curve as the press cams over and releases all the pressure. A press that stops at the top of the pressure curve has no cam over.

I have swaged bullets both ways with cam over and not but I just noticed the Laymen Orange Crusher design to have a abrupit and extreely noticable cam over when used to swage bullets that I didn't enjoy.

Swage On!

BT

[mold maker]

Can't this be remedied by adding something to extend the stop to hold it at TDC?

[BT Sniper]

Yep!

Bt

[no34570]

Ahhhh
Now I know what you mean BT
It does do it,just as you reach TDC,it (the ram)goes down a bit.

[no34570]

Umm
Maybe it is something different?

[a.squibload]

Another way to look at it:

At Max. Upstroke (of the ram), the pins are all in line.
In the RC the lower pin is allowed to move just a little more
and gets out of line with the other two pins.
The ram has a chance to drop slightly, and the pressure is released a bit.
Now it takes a little force to reverse the handle and get back past Max. Upstroke
to lower the ram.
Almost like a parking brake on a forklift? Where did that come from?
When you get past the point where the pins are in line, the lever wants to stay where it is.
That might help if you have a bleedoff swage die, could park it at "camover" for a while
to give the lead a chance to move?

There's always a way to make it work the way you like it.

[no34570]

How about a C&H Champion Press?
Are they any good?

[BT Sniper]

How about a C&H Champion Press?
Are they any good?

They should be! Cost twice as much as typical reloading press yet half the cost of the Corbin at around $280. I got to handle one I shipped to a customer. It looked pretty secure! I know there where a few here that picked up one of these presses. If no one comments on it possibly start a new thread specific to the CH press.

BT

[BT Sniper]

Here is the pic I was looking for. A CH Champion press with my ejector attached. Pretty good looking set up I think! I'm sure it must be able to handle anythign we coupld throw at it but I have not got to personaly use one yet.

Swage On!

BT

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23952&d=1280028135

[shaggist]

The picture BTS just posted is my Champion that he built one of his ejectors for last year. You just have to pick it up 1 time to know that you are in the presence of something massively strong. I don't believe there is any bullet in common usage today, that can't be swaged on this press. The only exception I would make would be solid copper slugs like the Barnes bullets.

You also need one of BTS' ejectors. He had to make one especially for this press, as the ram is 1.186" in diameter. Without it, you are just crippling your production time and fun factor. As it is now, pull the handle down, push the handle up, and take out your bullet. Although I can't imagine why anyone would want to, this press can be used for reloading also, as the threads in the bushing at the top are 7/8 X14.

For the price and especially the delivery time, you won't find a better press to use for swaging. Try one. You'll be convinced also.

[BT Sniper]

Yep! Thanks for the photo Shaggist. It is a good looking set up and some day I'll have to set me up with one :)

Swage On!

BT

[no34570]

Here is the pic I was looking for. A CH Champion press with my ejector attached. Pretty good looking set up I think! I'm sure it must be able to handle anythign we coupld throw at it but I have not got to personaly use one yet.

Swage On!

BT

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23952&d=1280028135
That looks mighty impressive:awesome: