Lyman 429421 letters, etc.

[Keith Sacane]

So, I bought a used Lyman 429421 today for $2.00. It had some light rust on the outside which cleaned off easily, but nothing in the cavities. After the 429421, it says "AM". What does that stand for? I'm hoping this is the standard "Keith" mold. It looks like it. I've been looking for one for awhile, and they always seem to go for higher prices than I can afford at the moment.

There are also other numbers stamped in places. It says "03" and "616" below that. This is my first Lyman mold, so I'm not very familiar with them. All my others are Lee's, mainly from group buys here. I just never bought the 44 version of the Catshooter molds when they were available here, and I've been kicking myself ever since. At the time, I shot 45's for the most part.

Also, the sprue plate seems very loose, compared to my Lee molds. Is this normal? If not, how do I fix it? The screw doesn't seem to want to get any tighter, and I don't want to damage the blocks. I'm sure these are all very basic questions, but thanks for any help.

[Catshooter]

Hi Keith,

Two whole dollars. Wow. The sprue plate is worth more than that, good job.

I have read (here) that the initials (AM in this case) stand for who made the cherry. That's the cutter that was used to cut the mould cavity, in case you didn't know.

The 03 is probably the year is was made, Lyman does that now.

The 616 should be on both blocks. That's a mating number to keep the two halves together during production.

Just below the sprue plate screw, on one side of the mould, you'll see a set screw. If your mould was made in 03 then this screw will be an Allen socket screw. Loosen that dude up, it clamps the sprue plate screw and won't let it turn. Then you can tighten the sprue plate screw until you like how much it's holding the sprue plate. Then re-tighten the set screw.

Lastly, there is no such thing (unfortuneatly) as a "standard" Keith boolit. But your's is probably pretty close. Is the lube groove rounded or squared? Keith wanted squared, hated the rounded, but they still work fine.

Don't worry about basic questions. We all have at one point.

I hope this helps you with this mould that you stole. :)


Cat

[Keith Sacane]

Cat,

Thanks for the fast reply. The grooves are square. When I first saw it, I couldn't make out all the numbers, but I used a little 0000 steel wool after I got it home, and I could see the number well then. I was happy, to say the least. I feel stupid now about the set screw. I should have noticed that. Thanks again.

[MikeS]

You didn't mention, is this a single cavity, double, or more? It's my understanding that the 2 letters after the mould number, one if the cherry used, and the other is the person that made the mould. Even if it's a single cavity, for what you paid, it'd be hard to beat! If it has square grooves, it's NOT made in 2003, so the 03 probably means something else, who knows what! Does your mould say Lyman on it, or Ideal? I forget when the switch was done, but the earlier ones said Ideal, the later ones say Lyman. All these little details really don't mean much, more important is how it casts! Be sure and let us know, and pictures of the boolits would be nice too :)

[Dennis Eugene]

Just Curious Mike, how do you know that it doesn't have square lube grooves if made in '03 My 429421 four cav. has the square lube grooves and it was made in '08. Thanks Dennis

[MT Gianni]

Ly went to rd grooves then back to square ones a few years ago. I am surprised no one has offered to double your money yet...
You got a great deal and it should treat you right.

[Keith Sacane]

Sorry, it's a two cavity, and it says Lyman on it. I wasn't sure which mold it was when I bought it, but I was hoping for this one. Either way, it's good.

[casterofboolits]

Lyman has gone back to the square grease groove in the majoraty of thier pistol boolit designs. :bigsmyl2:

As an added note I have four Lyman 429421 four cavity mouilds. Two with round grooves and two with square grooves. Guess which two I'm putting up for sale.

[MikeS]

Ok, I was unaware that Lyman went back to square grease grooves in that design. Dennis, I knew that Lyman had changed over to rounded grease grooves, but didn't know they switched back. That is why I assumed if it had square grooves it must be an older mould. That's what I love about this forum, learn something new every day!

[Shuz]

I have several copies of Lyman's 429421. I have a hunch that Lyman went away from the square grease groove originally and went to the rounded grease groove because the rounded groove design drops boolits easier from the moulds. At least all of mine do. Then, I have a another hunch, that they received so much flak from gun writers and cast boolit shooters that they had departed from the original Keith design, that they went back to the square grease groove.
Now here's my experience. After 47 years of shooting various 429421 designs with square grooves and round grooves, I have found no difference in accuracy or leading from one to the other. They both shoot well, but as I said, the rounded grooves are preferred by myself because they seem to drop outta the blocks easier. YMMV.

[Catshooter]

One has to remember that when Elmer was deceiding on groove design, it was the 20's & 30's. Wasn't like today where you have about a zillion choises for lube. Those days, alot of folks made their own from animal fats and you needed all you could get.

He hated the rounded ones because his design was very specific, and rounded wasn't it. Ideal changed them to roundedd and kept his name associated with the design, didn't say squat to him. And rounded grooves of courese hold less lube than squared.

With todays modern lubes being cheap and available it doesn't seem to make much difference for all practical purposes.


Cat

[casterofboolits]

One of the things Lyman seems to be doing right is to have some draft on the lube groove to allow the boolit to drop freely.Take a look at the new Lyman Cowboy boolit moulds. I have two of the Lyman #452664 45C-250-FPBB and they almost jump out of the mould when it is opened.

Conversly, I have a Lyman #429360 44-232-SWCPB that was frustrating to get the boolits out of. It has really sharp edges. Looks like it was an Ideal design that Lyman took over. That mould has been sitting on my mould shelf for almost 25 years. I just cleaned it up and used a piece of bamboo chopstick to run over the sharp edges to remove any burrs thrown up by the machining process. Now I will have to proof the darn thing to see if it helped. I used my 5X optivisor to check for burrs, but did not find any after the stick treatment.

[Catshooter]

One the draft angle: yep. I have new (09 production) 452424 that both boolits fall out of the cavities. No tapping, they fall when you open the mould. Very nice, that.

That's why I've been saying "squared", not "square". Instead of a 90 degree angle, they're about 60 or so. Makes a difference.


Cat

[ColColt]

I have an old mold from the 70's with the round groove. Doe the current 429421 molds undersize like most have been? I'd love to have the square groove.

[Iron Mike Golf]

One the draft angle: yep. I have new (09 production) 452424 that both boolits fall out of the cavities. No tapping, they fall when you open the mould. Very nice, that.

That's why I've been saying "squared", not "square". Instead of a 90 degree angle, they're about 60 or so. Makes a difference.


Cat

Maybe "flat bottom" versus "round bottom" and stay away from "square" unless the angle is 90 degrees. "Square" and "squared" say the same thing to me (and probably a lot of folks).

[Catshooter]

ColColt,

I have a year old Lyman 429421 that throws at .430, but I have had good luck with Lyman. What can I say?

Iron Mike,

You know, I think you're right, "flat bottom" is a better descripter. So adopted, thanks.


Cat

[EDK]

I have an old mold from the 70's with the round groove. Doe the current 429421 molds undersize like most have been? I'd love to have the square groove.

Go see if MIHEC has any of his brass four cavity moulds for 429421/H&G 503 clone boolits. Probably the closest to Elmer's design available...and superb quality moulds. I bought a six cavity aluminum AND a brass four cavity. Super boolit in an assortment of 44 rifles and revolvers.

MMA10MM had a group buy of his modified version of this in a LEE...it feeds some better in my MARLIN cowboy rifles. Another super accurate boolit.

Either of the above sized to .432 and Brinnel hardness 10-to-12 will have two or three boolit holes touching at 25 yards out of a 5.5 or 7.5 inch VAQUERO. The fixed sights on the VAQUERO and operator error (most of the time) are the limiting factor.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire: