Primer dimensions

[waksupi]

Here's a chart I found on BSB, I though you may be interested in.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Waksupi, does your source have pistol primer dimensions? My Dillon Square Deal gave me fits with primer feeding. I phoned Dilllon and they told me to quit using CCI. When I asked how he knew that I was told that CCI are larger in diameter than the Dillon recommended Federal or Winchester. Now I use WW in the Dillon machine, but still like CCI for rifle loads.

[Willbird]

That is interesting, especially yhat they apparently run the 450 on the same setup as the 400, the tell there is that the extra cup thickness seems makes the height .004 taller.

Bill

[felix]

Agreed, very interesting stats. The anvil height is the important one, not the sides of the cup. Primers ideally should be seated to consistent anvil pressure, and the cups should not touch the primer pocket bottom. There is some variation of height within the same primer lot. However, most cases are not prepped enough to feel this anvil pressure. For example, only my BR and 22-250 cases are prepped to the hilt because of their BR chambers where it would make a difference anyway. ... felix

[BruceB]

Interesting, indeed.

I've been using mostly CCI large rifle and large pistol primers in my Dillon 550 for well over ten years without ANY serious feeding hitches whatever that I can remember. The small-pistol CCIs also work fine, but my production volume is a good bit less in the small-primer cartridges (.38/.357/9mm) that we use.

A couple years back I went to the Big Reno Show and bought about 7,000 Winchester LR primers from Miwall Corporation's booth, along with about 5,000 LP and SP for the handguns. The LR primers were DEFINITELY well undersize in diameter, seating almost completely without resistance in the rifle brass on hand, including most of our domestic namebrands and a good assortment of foreign ones as well. The Winchester primers measured over half-a-thousandth smaller than the CCI, Federal and earlier Winchester LR primers I had in stock, and this was ample to reduce the seating pressure to literally zero in many cases.....no "feel" at all in the seating process. It was a great testimony to just how good the tolerances are in our cartridge cases, these days! I was sure glad to finally use up the last of them undersize rascals a few months ago. The pistol-type primers were correct and gave me no trouble whatever.

(I also dislike the dull brass finish of the newer W-W primers...the bright nickel of the CCIs is much more attractive to my eye in a shiny casehead....as if THAT means anything!)

[waksupi]

Curmudgeon, pistol primers weren't listed. I'll ask to see if that chart is available.

[Rrusse11]

Waksupi,
Hey! Good information.
Thanks,
R*2

[Willbird]

Felix,

I prep my large rifle primer pockets with a sinclair uniformer, when the primers slide you can feel them hit bottom with an almost audible *click* with un uniformed pockets it is a sort of mushy feel due to the radius that is in the corner, I always assumed, and can verify by measurement tomorrow that the cups do in fact set into the bottom of the pockets.

I did read that 50bmg does not like primers seated to feel but rather to a given depth.

Bill

[watkibe]

I have some primers that I left out and don't remember what they are. Identifying them isn't simple. I measured and weighed known primers and made an Excel chart to help figure it out. The file is attached. Unfortunately, I can only generalize due to variations within tolerances: small primers are about 0.120 high, large primers are about 0.127 high. Magnum primers usually weigh about half a grain more than the same size standard primer. The foil color may be helpful sometimes. However, I found Winchester small rifle in 2 colors, green and yellow. After I did it, I realized that I could have measured the actual diameters too, since there may be some variation there as well.

[Mk42gunner]

That might explain why I thought primers (WLR) were seating awfully hard in LC-64 brass.

Robert

[Driver man]

I came across this primer chart today and thought it would be handy


PRIMER CHART & REFERENCE GUIDE

Small Handgun Standard .017" cup thickness

CCI 500
Federal 100 - Has a soft cup - good to use if hammer strike is light.
Federal 100M - Match version of above
Magtech PR-SP
Magtech PR-SPC - Lead-free "Clean Range" primer for indoor ranges etc.
Remington 1 ½
RWS 4031
Winchester WSP
Wolf/Tula Small Pistol SP #KVB-9 - brass cup - "For Standard Pistol loads"
Wolf/Tula Small Pistol #KVB-9SP - "For 9×19 NATO cartridges"
Wolf/Tula Small Pistol #KVB-9S - "For Sporting Pistol loads"

Small Handgun Magnum .017" cup thickness

CCI 550 See Note 1 at the bottom of page
Federal 200
Federal 200M - Match version of above
Magtech PR-SPM
Remington 5 ½
RWS 4047
Winchester WSPM
Wolf/Tula Small Pistol Magnum SPM #KVB-9M - brass cup - "For Magnum Pistol loads"

Large Handgun Standard .020" cup thickness

CCI 300
Federal 150 - Has a thinner cup
Magtech PR-LP
Remington 2 ½
RWS 5337
Winchester WLP
Wolf/Tula Large Pistol LP #KVB-45 - brass cup - "For Standard Pistol loads"

Large Handgun Magnum .020" cup thickness

CCI 350
Federal 155
Wolf/Tula Large Pistol Magnum LPM #KVB-45M - brass cup - For Magnum Pistol loads

Small Rifle Standard

CCI 400 -thin .020" cup, not recommended for AR15 use by CCI/Speer. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine. See Note 1 at the bottom of the page
CCI BR4 - match primer with a thicker .025" cup.
Federal 205 - Mil-Spec cup thickness according to Federal - okay for 5.56mm. .0225" cup thickness.
Federal 205M - same as the 205 but the match version.
Magtech PR-SR - .025" cup thickness (not much feedback yet on this new primer as to AR15 suitability but with the same cup thickness as the Rem 7 1/2 it looks good so far)
Remington 6 ½ - thin .020" cup, intended for older, lower pressure rounds Remington says do not use for the .223 Rem or other similar pressure rounds. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine.
Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Lyman & Nosler classify this primer as a Standard. Remington says the compound is the same as the 6 1/2 but with a thicker .025" cup.
RWS 4033
Winchester WSR - some piercing issues noted when changed from silver to brass cup. Cup thickness is a bit thinner at .021". Most say they are good to go for the AR15 despite that, probably because of the hardness of the cup. Some feel they are less resistant to higher pressures.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle SR #KVB-223 - soft, sensitive copper cup, not recommended for AR15/military rifle use or high pressure rounds.

Small Rifle Magnum

CCI 450 - same thicker .025" cup as the BR4 and #41.
CCI #41 - commercial version of the fully-qualified DOD primer for use in U.S. military ammo. With this primer there is more 'distance' between the tip of the anvil and the bottom of the cup than with other CCI SR primers. .025" thick cup. Same primer mix as CCI 450.
Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Hornady, Handloads.com, and Chuck Hawks classify this primer as a Magnum, differing from other sources that classify it as a Standard. .025" cup thickness.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle Magnum SRM - hard, less sensitive brass cup intended for AR15/military rifle and high pressure rounds - #KVВ-5,56M.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle 223 SR223 - #KVB-223M "This is the newest primer available in the Wolf line. It is ever so slightly hotter than the small rifle magnum primer and it comes with a brass colored thick cup. This primer can be used in place of the SRM primer or used when a different powder is used that is hard to ignite."

Large Rifle Standard

CCI 200 - mild in brisance. Hard enough for use in semi-automatics.
CCI BR2 - same as the 200 but the match version. Hard enough for use in semi-automatics.
Federal 210 - medium brisance between CCI/Remington & Winchester. Do not use in semi-automatics.
Federal 210M - match version of the above primer. Do not use in semi-automatics.
Magtech PR-LR
Remington 9 ½ - mild in brisance.
RWS 5341
Winchester WLR - the hottest standard primer. Hard enough for use in semi-automatics.
Wolf/Tula Large Rifle LR #KVB-7 - all brass - "For Standard Rifle loads".
Wolf/Tula Large Rifle #KVB-7,62 - "For 7,62 NATO cartridges"

Wolf/Tula primers are used by noted match shooter David Tubbs who says: "Be sure they are seated into the case - if not they can be hard to ignite. Russian primers use a different sinoxide compound (closer to the European type), which, in my testing, consistently delivers better extreme spreads over Federal..." Hard enough for use in semi-automatics.

Large Rifle Magnum

CCI 250
CCI #34 - commercial version of the fully-qualified DOD primer for use in U.S. military ammo.
Federal 215 - original magnum primer
Remington 9 ½ M - mildest magnum primer.
RWS 5333
Winchester WLRM
Wolf/Tula Large Rifle Magnum LRM #KVB-7M - all brass - "For Magnum Rifle loads".

50 BMG

CCI #35 - commercial version of the fully-qualified DOD primer for use in U.S. military ammo.
Winchester 8312
Wolf/Tula 50 Cal Machine Gun #KVB-50 - For 50 Browning Machine Gun

Primers recommended for use in .223 Rem/5.56 semiautomatic rifle loads:

CCI #41, 450, BR4 (#41 & 450 good with ball powder)
Federal 205, 205M
Remington 7 1/2 BR (good with ball powder)
Winchester WSR (good with ball powder)
Wolf SRM (good with ball powder)
Wolf SR223 (hotter than SRM - great with ball powder)

Primers recommended for use in .308 Win/7.62x51/7.62x39 semiautomatic rifle loads:

CCI #34, 200, BR2, CCI 250
Winchester WLR, WLRM (good with ball powder)
Wolf LR

WOLF/TULA PRIMER APPLICATION CHART FOR ALL PRIMERS - Primers for cartridges of service, sportive & hunting arms | АО Муромский приборостроительный завод
Wolf and Tula are two of the common U.S. marketing names of primers made by Murom (OJSC «Murom Apparatus Producing plant» "For many years, our constant partners are «The Tula Cartridge Works», «Barnaul Cartridge Plant» and others.").

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NOTE 1: According to Speer/CCI Technical Services - Both the CCI 550 Small Pistol Magnum and CCI 400 Small Rifle primers are identical in size. Both primers use the same cup metal and share the same cup thickness. Both primers use the same primer compound formula and same amount of primer compound. They can be used interchangeably.

[Driver man]

I find it really interesting that the CCI SPM and the SRP are the exact same thing. I have had some problems getting WAP to shoot consistent with SP primer in 9mm but using SRP results are very good.