Gun I.D---- HELP

[357maximum]

Recently ran across this rifle in the pics on a site while doing some research on feasibility of a project that is bouncing around in my noggin. I do not know what it is so I seek the knowledge of others.


What is the hammer fired bolt gun in the pics in the first post?

http://garagegunsmithing.com/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=54&jfile=viewtopic.php&f=14&t=1243

[WILCO]

I tried looking around, but came up with nothing other than it looks as though it's early british due to the stock, receiver and sling mounts.

[Dutch4122]

Edit: Post deleted. I was way off on that W-A-G!

[Dutchman]

:)

Merrill-Brown m/1872

"The Merrill-Brown is a borderline entry in this guide (Websters Military Bolt Action Rifles 1841-1914), for it's actual military issue is uncertain. The Merrill was entered as No.83 in the U.S. Army Ordnance Board tests of 1872, but not recommended further for production or issue for field trials. It was, however, subsequently manufactured privately, and was apparently purchased by one or two U.S. states for state militia issue.

The Merrill-Brown bolt had a single receiver locking lug, and a non-rotating bolt-head mounting the extractor. Rather than an internal striker, the Merrill had a separate receiver-mounted rear hammer, which was cocked as the bolt was drawn back (as Winchester and Marlin lever-actions), or could be hand-cocked. The bolt body included only the firing pin.

As first produced, the Merrill-Brown was a .58 rimfire conversion of Civil War surplus Pattern 1853 Enfield rifled muskets. The Merrill bolt action was added, with the Enfield side lock and screw-bases removed and their recesses filled iwth flush walnut inlays. The 1872 Army test entry, hoever, was U.S. cal. .50-70, as likely production versions bought for state militias. Actual production quantity is unknown, but for probably no more than one or two thousand. No carbine versions are known."

"Manufactured by the Brown Manufacturing Co. and marked on the bolt "BROWN MFG. CO. NEWBURYPORT MASS. PATENTED OCT. 17, 1871".

These rifles were sold by Bannerman's in New York.

The Ordnance Dept report can be found online in PDF format. I have it somewhere and it shows all the entries... maybe not all.. disassembled. The 1872 Ordnance Trials were very extensive and ended up with the 1873 Springfield "Trapdoor" as the primary United States rifle until 1892 when the Krag-Jorgensen was adopted. There was also a very early Krag entered in the 1872 Trials. http://dutchman.rebooty.com/krag.html

The 1872 Trials actually went on for several years, not just 1872. It also included ammunition trials. What was so important about the 1872 Trials was it followed the carbine trials in 1866. The American Civil War produced some huge advancements in breechloading rifles and carbines. Mostly carbines during the Civil War for use by mounted cavalry was at the fore front of military tactics and seen as the wave of the future.

The glut of 1861 Springfield percussion rifles resulted in the Ordnance Dept seeking out methods to convert these rifles to cartridge breech loaders to save the expenditure of funds for entirely new designs. This is why the superintendent of Springfield Armory, Erskine Allin, got the job. The 1873 Springfield was the final and best of the Allin designs.

The U.S. Patent Office database is full of these early 1870s percussion-conversion ideas. There were many such patents. And the 1872 Trials themselves provoked a large number of breechloader patents. Not only rifles but ammunition and methods of manufacture. The 1870s saw huge advancements in brass cartridge case design and manufacture.

Excellent source book: Butler's United States Firearms 1776-1876

Dutch

http://images57.fotki.com/v81/photos/2/28344/6456804/ents__Otherwise_Publ__as_ExecD-vi.jpg
http://images112.fotki.com/v233/photos/2/28344/6456804/ents__Otherwise_Publ__as_Exec4-vi.jpg
http://images57.fotki.com/v80/photos/2/28344/6456804/ents__Otherwise_Publ__as_Exec5-vi.jpg

[Pirate69]

Dutch,
You da Man!!!!

[Dutchman]

http://images112.fotki.com/v106/photos/2/28344/6456804/port_of_the_Secretary_of_War3b-vi.jpg

http://images58.fotki.com/v132/photos/2/28344/6456804/our_rifles1-vi.jpg
http://images9.fotki.com/v131/photos/2/28344/6456804/our_rifles2-vi.jpg
http://images58.fotki.com/v132/photos/2/28344/6456804/our_rifles3-vi.jpg

[MtGun44]

Amazing. Thanks, Dutchman.

[357maximum]

THANK YOU Dutchman......you have both met and exceeded my need for knowledge. ;-)


I sure am glad Al Gore invented this internet thing. [smilie=2:

[WILCO]

Dutch,
You da Man!!!!


I agree!!! Great work.

[Dutchman]

I didn't know what this rifle was. I'd never seen one like it. But being that it was apparently an early transitional black powder bolt action military rifle of some sort I was curious so I went looking in my humble library.

Military Bolt Action Rifles 1841-1918 by Webster is not a very well known or widely known book. It's also not a very big book. I have it because I bought it from Eric Nagant, great grandson of Leon Nagant, the inventor of Liege and brother of Emil.

Webster's book has a lot of obscure military rifles. And there it was. As soon as it mentioned the Ordnance Trials of 1872 it opened a 2nd door because I've long been interested in the 1872 trials. They were mentioned extensively in Butler's book, United States Firearms 1776-1876 which I bought in a bookstore on Hollywood Blvd in Hollywood many years ago.( I use to go down to Tower Records on Sunset Blvd about once a month to see the freaks.... ok the female freaks)

When resident of northern Indiana 1996-2006 and during the wonderfully frigid winters I spent over a year perusing the United States Patent Office database collecting patents, mostly firearms, ammunition, ammunition manufacturing, reloading tools, scope mounts, tang sights and whatever else I came across. This was before "google patents" and searching was by patent classification/category. I have over 3,300 files on my patent CD many of which were provoked by the 1872 Ordnance Trials.

With the internet (and google) it's possible to go from being totally ignorant to an ~expert~ in like.. oh... 15 minutes. I'm a google keyword search fanatic probably more so from doing genealogy research. But even with google it still takes books and book learning to get a real good grip on most things.

Eric passed away from cancer and I helped him sell off his gun collection and books. He lived not far from San Francisco and owned an automobile repair shop. After the gun biz petered out for the Nagant family they went into automobile manufacture, successfully, in Liege, Belgium. They were long time associated with the FN conglomerate in Liege.

Dutch

http://images59.fotki.com/v112/photos/2/28344/157842/001b-vi.jpg

[9.3X62AL]

Just......WOW. Many thanks, Dutchman.

[Multigunner]

Dutchman you are a gentleman and a scholar.

Being a conversion of the Enfield Musket its stock and bands are much the same.

I'd thought of the Remington Keene at first.

[Rio Grande]

I thought it was a Werndl.

http://hungariae.com/Wern67.htm