Wanting to cast

[Joel Chavez]

I've been thinking of casting my own boolits, but I have several questions that I hope can be answered. First, can a Coleman 10K BTU propane burner be enough to melt lead? Second, will the Lee's mould be adequate for newbies like myself? Third, what is the recipe for alloy content for ball 45ACP 230gr lead and 38/357 SWC? I plan to start melting some 80lbs of lead this weekend so any advise would greatly be appreciated. Hope it's warm and dry where you are.:drinks:

[NVcurmudgeon]

Joel, welcome to our obsession. I cast and smelt all my metal over a Coleman two burner (only use one) white gas camp stove. I can easily reach temps higher than 800F with my twelve lb. pot. I don't how my stove compares with your "10K BTU propane burner." I use wheelweight metal plus 2 % tin for all casting. In the past I hve used straight wheelweights, 10:1 lead/tin, 16:1 lead/tin, 20:1 lead/tin, linotype, and mystery metal. All made satisfactory pistol bullets. You said that you are melting "some 80 lbs. of lead." What alloy of lead specifically are you melting? Pure lead is too soft for all but muzzleloader balls, but you can add lead free solder from the hardware store and make good boolit metal. Lee moulds work just fine. They tend to be less durable than iron, and sometimes need a little tweaking (see the sticky about "Leementing.")

[JCherry]

Joel,

Welcome to the bunch. There is lots of good info here.

I've always used a Coleman white gas Camp stove for my lead rendering with an old Thrift Store cast iron pot. The only time I've used a Coleman propane device was when a buddy had a propane camp stove, we had trouble heating up a big coffee pot one morning, it did not impress me as being very good.

Lee moulds can be useful as they are so inexpensive. Lee Moulds are finicky however so I STRONGLY urge you to go to the Molds Maintence & Design section and read the "Sticky" on Lee-menting. Once you've done that proceed.

Wheel Weight lead should be about perfect for 45 ACP and 38/357 loads.

Have Fun,

JCherry

[MT Gianni]

Most range top burners run 9,000 btuhr. Turkey friars are about 35,000. I think 10k might be a little slow for smelting. Gianni.

[Joel Chavez]

Thanks for the info. gentlemen. Where can a decend burner be had? I was thinking of the Coleman because Wally World has them in there camping area. Should I look for something that runs a bit hotter? What BTU should I look for? I was given about 80lbs of wheel weights that are begging to be transmorphasized to something useful. Again, thanks for the input and I'll continue to pick your brains, if that's ok with ya? :-D Hope it's warm and dry where you are.

[montana_charlie]

When I was getting set up to re-enter the world of casting, I was looking around for something to smelt scrap lead with. Eventually, I decided to use propane instead of white gas.

I 'fell into' a cast iron burner (just the burner) that looked promising, so I went looking for it on the internet to see how it was supposed to be used. It turned out to be the one in this stove ( http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_15490_15490 ).

I tried to order the manifold (with the controls pictured) from the manufacturer, but the number that you call for warranty replacement of parts was all I could find. The lady wouldn't take payment...and sent it to me free.
I welded up a frame to mount everything in, and ring to set the pot on, and it has performed very well with my 4-quart cast iron pot.

Looking at it on the website (just now) I see that it's rated at 35K. That makes me think a 10K would be slower than I would like...but it should work OK.
CM

[44woody]

Joel I have a colman stove that I have not used in a while if you want it you can have it just for the postage on it think of it as a xmas present from one of the guys here :castmine: 44Woody

[dragonrider]

Welcome to the forum.
Wally world had turkey friers on sale recently for 30 dollars. You might see if they still have them.

[ron brooks]

Harbor Freight can sure be your friend. Look into Dutch ovens and propane burners there.

Ron

[imashooter2]

I have smelted a fair bit of WW, cable sheath, range scrap, pipe and flashing on a Coleman stove I picked up for $5 at a yard sale. I see no reason that you can't do the same. Keep your pot to 2.5 quarts or so and leave the last 1/2 inch in the pot when you are pouring ingots to help transfer heat to the next load. That 80 pounds of WW will become ingots inside a couple hours.

[Joel Chavez]

Thank you soooo much for the wealth of information you folks have shared. 44Woody, thanks for the offer, however, being that I'm leaving for vacation today and will be casting while away, I needed a burner like last week. HEHEHEHEHE I'm going to hit Cabela's today and see what they have. Academy seems like a likely place to have what is needed. I believe someone mentioned to keep the volume to the pot to 2.5L. Is that correct? By the way, what is "white gas"? Again, thanks for everything folks. Hope it's warm and dry where you are.:-D

[Joel Chavez]

I just found a burner at Academy for only $18 and change rated at 160K BTU!!!!! Boy, I feel like a kid in a candy store. Well, I'm off. I'll check in later this week and give you folks a report on my progress. Take care and be safe.:drinks:

[imashooter2]

Thank you soooo much for the wealth of information you folks have shared. 44Woody, thanks for the offer, however, being that I'm leaving for vacation today and will be casting while away, I needed a burner like last week. HEHEHEHEHE I'm going to hit Cabela's today and see what they have. Academy seems like a likely place to have what is needed. I believe someone mentioned to keep the volume to the pot to 2.5L. Is that correct? By the way, what is "white gas"? Again, thanks for everything folks. Hope it's warm and dry where you are.:-D


I said to keep the pot to 2.5 L if you were going to do the work on a Coleman. That was just so you wouldn't over stress the grill or exceed the capacity of the burner to heat the mass. With the burner you purchased you can go much larger. Just remember that lead is heavy! Don't exceed the capacity of the burner's support structure. Standing in a puddle of 100 or more pounds of molten metal will spoil your afternoon.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Thank you soooo much for the wealth of information you folks have shared. 44Woody, thanks for the offer, however, being that I'm leaving for vacation today and will be casting while away, I needed a burner like last week. HEHEHEHEHE I'm going to hit Cabela's today and see what they have. Academy seems like a likely place to have what is needed. I believe someone mentioned to keep the volume to the pot to 2.5L. Is that correct? By the way, what is "white gas"? Again, thanks for everything folks. Hope it's warm and dry where you are.:-D

Joel, white gas is undyed low octane gasoline without automotive specific additives. White gas is used in lanterns, stoves, tent heaters, etc. where anti-knock is not needed. (IIRC, the only additive Coleman puts in their fuel is for anti-rust.) I did run a car with 9:1 compression ratio on Coleman fuel one rainy night when I tried to make it home without stopping for gas. Pinged to beat the band!

[Joel Chavez]

Ok, I have my lead and my burner from Academy. Actually, I bought the deep turkey fryer. The added bonus was the burner or at least that's what I told my wife. I'm on vacation visiting my folks for two weeks, but I'm really bumded out. I can't for the life of me, find a cast iron kettle anywhere. All the camping stores in the area only have skillets. will they work. They are about 2" deep and 10-12" wide. Thanks for all the insight you folks have shared. Hope you all have a wonderful Christmas and safe New Year.:-D

[carpetman]

Joel Chavez---I would find a skillet to be clumsy for smelting. Should be able to find a dutch oven type pot. You dont need very big--it will be heavy.

[Forester]

I havn't been doing this for long at all but I use a cast iron skillet for the steel clips/zinc/steel wheel weights that float when I smelt a pot of wheel weights. I use a bigger cast iron pot from Wal-Mart on a turkey fryer, I think it is about a 9-10 quart pot.

Given how fast a pot of wheel weights melts on one of these turkey fryers I would like to have a pot twice this size to speed up the smelting process. I enjoy casting alot. Smelting however is more like work to me for some reason.

[Scrounger]

Ok, I have my lead and my burner from Academy. Actually, I bought the deep turkey fryer. The added bonus was the burner or at least that's what I told my wife. I'm on vacation visiting my folks for two weeks, but I'm really bumded out. I can't for the life of me, find a cast iron kettle anywhere. All the camping stores in the area only have skillets. will they work. They are about 2" deep and 10-12" wide. Thanks for all the insight you folks have shared. Hope you all have a wonderful Christmas and safe New Year.:-D


WalMart and Harbor Freight carry them at a good price.

[carpetman]

Joel Chavez--I gave a short response,give a longer one this time. When you get the wheelweights melted,you will be skimming off the clips etc that float to the top. I just use an old soup spoon for this. Then I flux it good and do final skimming. Now you want this molten alloy to go into some form of ingot. Humpteen innovative ideas will get mentioned here--empty cans,muffin tins etc. I go to extreme innovation and use of all things an ingot mold. If your smelting pot were so equipped,you could use the spout and pour into the mold. Some of the big time smelters have this but most dont. Lacking the spout,you either pour into the mold or ladle it into the mold. The pot I use is an old Lyman/Ideal and the cavity is about the size of a softball. This of course means I dont melt all my wheelweights at one time. It is small enough that I can use pliers and pour into my ingot mold. Much bigger and it would weigh too much. I have a 4 cavity LymaN(The N is backwards) ingot mold and by pouring them thick,can all but empty the pot. I think it's about 10 lbs---500 grain bullets would be about 140---but I dont shoot any that heavy--for my 58 grain 22's thats about 443 bullets. I like to leave some molten alloy in the pot as it makes what I add melt faster. Keep this up and you'll have it done. For years I also cast out of this same pot using a ladle,but I went to a Lee bottom pour and I like that method much better. If your pot is too heavy and you cant pour,you'll need to get a big ladle,I'd hate to use the small casting ladle I have for this chore.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Joel, you are very fortunate to be the recipient of one of Carpetman's very informative and straightforward posts. I can only add to Ray's post to get a PERFORATED big soup spoon. That way the lead will go back into the pot, leaving the bare clips for dumping. I guess Carpetman is being serious because you are his fellow Texan. He really knows his stuff, but don't believe anything he says about domestic animals. I also use a Lyman ingot mould, and am lucky to have one of the rare, collector's item, backwards N, variations just like Ray's. I also have an RCBS ingot mould, and one from Potter, but neither has any backwards letters. I can't wait to get hold of a SAECO ingot mould to see if I get one of the "special" ones.

[rebliss]

Joel; Welcome!

You've found a great wealth of information here. I started casting with no guidance, and although I got through it, it wasn't until I met these fine folks did I start to become productive. I've still got a lot to learn!

Enjoy your vacation, and we look forward to hearing from you soon!

[IcerUSA]

Just started casting myself and haveing a great time doing it so far :) I picked up a skimmer off eBay to get rid of the wheel clips when I am smelting WW's, works great so far, got the pot from Harbor Freight,also seen the same size one at Mal-Mart, 10 qt. pot I think it was, just wish I could find a larger one :) Picked up a nice cast iron laddle on eBay also, holds about 2.5 to 3 lbs of lead to pore into a mold of your choise, made my molds at work out of aluminum and cut 4 slots into the aluminum that where 50mm wide by 150mm long and 55mm deep approx. makeing an ingot about 2.5 lbs, works great in the 20lb Lee Pro Pot :) Now for the bad part, YOUR HOOKED LOL

[Joel Chavez]

Wow! Wow! Wow! I just can't believe at the responses I've received in such short amount of time. You guys are awesome!!!! CarpetMan, thanks for such a detailed explaination. For the last two days I've been looking at every store in the area that sold camping supplies with no luck finding a cast iron pot that would work for my endeavor. After being defeated and humbled, I went over to my folk’s house to drop off the little ones while my wife and I had some time along. Out of the blue, I asked my mom if she knew of a place that sold cast iron pots. "Well", she said, "I don't know of any, but will this do for you?" It was like finding the Holy Grail. It was a 3qt pot with a handle and a pouring spout. Wow! What an end to an exhausting day. I finally have everything I need to start my project. Thanks guys. I'll keep you folks up to date.

[rebliss]

My only advice is to be very careful if you attempt to pour from that pot with its spout. Sloshing hot lead from a heavy pot isn't good. I always used a ladle until I made a bottom-pour smelter.

[carpetman]

Joel Chavez----When I said spout---I meant spigot. 3 qrts would be hard to handle. Make a dry run,see about how much would be comfortable before you fire it up. I don't think you will want it anywhere near full.

[rebliss]

Here's my smelting pot. It's a dutch oven from Harbor Freight, rigged with a bar across the top to hold the threaded knob running with a taper-plug to a hole drilled in the bottom. 3/8" elbow to the 3/8" nipple that extends below the bottom of my turkey-fryer stand. I'm able to control the output of lead very easily to fill my ingot moulds.

[44woody]

Joel there is a easy fix for your problen go to the local good will and get a old stanless steel pot and use it what ever you do DO NOT USE A ALUMNIUM POT TO MELT YOUR LEAD IN it will come apart on you don't ask how I know to long of a story to tell and if you need some ingot moulds pm me I can fix you up on them :castmine: 44Woody

[floodgate]

I keep looking at my Lyman ingot mould, and - doggone it! - it's the "L" that's backwards, not the "N". The "Y", "M" and "A" are fine. (Of course, the whole word is spelled backwards.)

floodgate

[Scrounger]

Joel Chavez----When I said spout---I meant spigot. 3 qrts would be hard to handle. Make a dry run,see about how much would be comfortable before you fire it up. I don't think you will want it anywhere near full.


Figure that lead weighs about 25 pounds per quart when you choose a container.

[carpetman]

IcerUSA---How could that be?You made your ingot mold on metric dimensions and it pours ingots in pound size????? Should be KG's or something. You musta screwed up somewhere???

[IcerUSA]

IcerUSA---How could that be?You made your ingot mold on metric dimensions and it pours ingots in pound size????? Should be KG's or something. You musta screwed up somewhere???

Just convert to english, when useing mm's devide by 25.4 to get english, or multiply inch by 25.4 to get mm's :) work in the auto industry as a machinist so I use it all the time, can you say calculator- Diemakers best friend hehe Just a rough estamite is 25mm's is an inch and your close :) Like 250mm's would be close to 10 inches, the weight is approx., we weighed the ingots on an old home scale you use to check your weight on , put 4 or 5 ingots on it and devided the total, close enough for a ingot hehe They have to be close to the weight as 4 ingots fill a Lee 20lb Pro Pot to about half inch from the top :) Hope this helped to understand what was in my other post :) We use metric at work so I have to convert to it instead of changing the machine paramiters everytime you get something in inch dimentions, easy as pie once it get caught in the cobwebs of the brain ;)

[montana_charlie]

I'm with you, Carpetman.
If IcerUSA made his ingot moulds using metric dimensions, then (obviously) the ingots just have to come out in metric weights.
Further evidence of the confusion lies in the statement that the ingots weigh 2.5 lbs. - but 4 of them fill up a 20lb. pot. Those ingots must be about two kilos each.

Everybody knows that metric ingots won't even melt in a pot that's calibrated in pounds...or is that quid?
CM

[robertbank]

She who knows best handed me a slotted spoon the size of a large soup spoon to use to get the clips out of my smelt. Works way better than a a standard soup spoon as quite a bit faster. Looks just a bit bigger than regular soup spoon must be metric.

Take Care

Bob

[IcerUSA]

I'm with you, Carpetman.
If IcerUSA made his ingot moulds using metric dimensions, then (obviously) the ingots just have to come out in metric weights.
Further evidence of the confusion lies in the statement that the ingots weigh 2.5 lbs. - but 4 of them fill up a 20lb. pot. Those ingots must be about two kilos each.

Everybody knows that metric ingots won't even melt in a pot that's calibrated in pounds...or is that quid?
CM

Might have put 7 in the pot first time, don't remember, haveing to much fun fixing the 45 mould and makeing boolits for the 45 ACP and 9MM Luger now :)

[Joel Chavez]

Morning folks! Hope all of ya had a super Christmas. Well, I finally casted my first ingots using WW. I filled the pot about half way with WW and yielded 8lbs 5ounces of lead. Was I suppose to add something to it? I know about adding the 50/50 bar solder, but what about while the WW are melting. Sorry for asking toooooo many questions. Hope the rest of your days goes well. Thanks for all the insight you've shared with me.

[robertbank]

Your WW will be fine. I often add a little 50 50 solder to aid mold fill out when casting. Glad all went well. Christmas was great up here in the North West.

Take Care

Bob

[dagamore]

When i was casting using 2 small 5 (10?) lb lee dipper pots, i would clean/flux/make ingots from one pot, and cast usign the ingots in the second pot.

when cleanning i would jsut fill it up with WW and skim out all the clips and other junk, and then keep adding more WW untill it was about 3/4 full and then i would put in a small piece of wax (about half and inch off of a candel about as big as my middle finger around) or a tea spoon of use motor oil, and would stir the piss out of it with a wooden paint mixer spoon. once it is all mixed in and clean i would then make the ingots.

The only time i put in solder was when i needed just a bit more mix and to finish casting out say the last 3 or 4 bullets to get to a round number (i normaly casted in 500 round groups). SInce this was all plinking stuff it worked great and was cheap. (normlay paid ~15 cents lb)

[Joel Chavez]

The mould I won on Ebay just arrived in the mail. It is a Lyman 357446 SWC 162gr. Have any of you guys used this particular mould? Will it work for my M64-3 38 and future 357 mag pistols? Thanks and I hope to cast some sacrificial slugs later tonight. I'll keep you folks updated on my progress. Take care and hope it's warm and dry where you're at.:-D

[MT Gianni]

Yes it will work but has a reputation for throwing undersized bullets [357 vs 358]. If they shoot in your gun I would start at any load recommended as a starter for the 358429 173 gr bullet. I think Skeeter Skelton's load for this was 5 gr unique but I can't find my records. Gianni.

[MtJerry]

I have that boolit in a 4 cavity and it shoots well out of my Ruger GP100 over 13.5gr. of 2400.

[GLL]

Joel:
I just noticed your avatar photo.

I have worked in the Guadalupe Mountains and Sierra Diablo for the past thirty years (geology). Those are some of the most beautiful and rugged mountains in the western U.S. ! They are not the highest mountains around but are some of the roughest country I have ever climbed in ! They are especially nice if you love lechiguilla and like to bleed a lot ! :) :)

Jerry

[Joel Chavez]

Yes, that's me and my boys. Zach 7yrs old is on my Lt. and Andrew 4yrs old on my Rt. We spent our Christmas vacation in '05 in Carlsbad and Guad Mts. It was an awesome experience to say the least. My 7yrs old and I were the last climbers in '05 to reach Guadalupe peak. Zach and I reached the summit about 5:00pm. The temp was in the mid 30s with the wind gust in excess of 30+ mph. My wife and my 4yrs old weren't able to make the summit. My little one just couldn't go any further and my wife started to suffer from altitude sickness at 8K feet. They were so close. Maybe next year will be their year. Hope you have a great New Years Day. :-D

[Bad Water Bill]

Many years ago (40)+ I found that a 3 pound coffee can on top of a single burner coleman was a good setup. Bend a spout on one side and a pair of vice grips on the opposit took care of everything. It will make 10 to 13 pounds after clips and junk removed.Cant be much less expensive than this. BWB