MP/cramer style mold. Will I regret setting it up like this?

[ChuckJaxFL]

I notice that no one seems to have pictures of their molds set up like I do.

I'm wondering if it's one of those "everyone knows that you shouldn't do that" things, and I'm just not in the know?

I set up the pins high on one side and low on the other, instead of all on the same side.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5189/5691171327_f33feeb228_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chuckjaxfl/5691171327/)
dsc_2257.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chuckjaxfl/5691171327/) by ChuckJaxFL (http://www.flickr.com/people/chuckjaxfl/), on Flickr

So when I open the mold:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5223/5691173123_c1f5ed208f_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chuckjaxfl/5691173123/)
dsc_2258.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chuckjaxfl/5691173123/) by ChuckJaxFL (http://www.flickr.com/people/chuckjaxfl/), on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5029/5691176813_2a1633bacb_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chuckjaxfl/5691176813/)
dsc_2259.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chuckjaxfl/5691176813/) by ChuckJaxFL (http://www.flickr.com/people/chuckjaxfl/), on Flickr

Can I expect any detrimental effects?

[justingrosche]

I think your opposing pins will be fighting each other and possibly wear out your pin holes. The opening and closing of the mold is an arching motion VS. the straight motion you have set up there. I also think, you need some plate lube and you need to slow your casting cadence, that is after you scrub that mold up. Your probably one good casting session away from ruining that mold.

[ChuckJaxFL]

I think your opposing pins will be fighting each other and possibly wear out your pin holes. The opening and closing of the mold is an arching motion VS. the straight motion you have set up there.
Thanks for weighing in.


I also think, you need some plate lube
Agreed


and you need to slow your casting cadence
Agreed


that is after you scrub that mold up.
and Agreed.

I'm still not used to this one. It takes forever to get hot. But once it finally is, I'm going to have to slow it way down, or get these plate smears.

[justingrosche]

If it seems to take forever to get hot, preheat it more. I cant endorse the use of a hot plate and thermometer enough.

[Doc Highwall]

Get yourself a hot plate with a thermometer and the mould can be heating up at the same time as your lead. Once you do you will never go back to casting without a hot plate.

[Springfield]

Didn't you get some sprue lube with the mould? If not contact Bullshop and get some soon. So, what is your perceived advantage for doing the pins that way?

[Doc Highwall]

If he was using the hollow point pins it would pull the bullet out of both cavities at the same time something like Eric is making at Hollow Point Moulds.
Cons, will not work with flat point/reversed pins like the hollow point pin and the mould cannot be opened as wide.
For using with the hollow point pins I think it might work very well, just don't put too much pressure when the handles are all the way open which could cause the pins to bend. Heated metal does not have the same strength as when it is at normal ambient temperature.

[ChuckJaxFL]

Sorry for the slow reply, I've been off cleaning up my smeared up mold!


If he was using the hollow point pins it would pull the bullet out of both cavities at the same time

Yes, which it does well. That much I've already proven to myself. I have pretty bad CTS. Casting is already burdensome, but I'm not willing to give it up. Little reductions in repetitive movement can benefit ALOT.


Hollow Point Moulds.

Which is where I got the idea to try this, and leads me to believe that the idea is not without at least some merit.

Also, I was looked at and fretting over this.

It seems that this, after eleventy bazillion bullets, is going to peen the edge of that hole. While doing so, I think it will introduce the same force and friction to the sliding pins that justingrosche is concerned about. I would think more?

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5147/5691684349_58c24249ae_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chuckjaxfl/5691684349/)
dsc_2265.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chuckjaxfl/5691684349/) by ChuckJaxFL (http://www.flickr.com/people/chuckjaxfl/), on Flickr

[huntnman]

what thermometer works best?

[justingrosche]

There are several on the market.Some folks call them candy thermometers Lyman and RCBS both have them, all though I suspect made by a third party and sold to both of them. I think NOE was offering a reasonable priced one, as well as a digital model.

[justingrosche]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/51744dc37bd04c834.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=783)
The difference from Eric's extractor linkage and what you are doing, is Eric's linkage has the ability to toggle.
Your trying to stretch a rainbow until its straight. I believe you'll eventually wear the keeper pin holes out of round. What I dont know is, if that will make any difference, seeing how the main body of pin itself is centered to the cavity in it's own recess. I also think you have another thing going for you. With using the long bladed Lee handles like you are it moves the pins farther out from the axis point thus reducing the angle.
It might be worth sending the mold to Eric and having the linkage installed and removing the ?????? from the equation. Hate to see you damage a $120 mold.:shock:
Best of luck to you.
Justin

[Moonie]

I'm actually very interested in this. Not that I've had issues with my 45 Miha mold but it does raise some interesting questions. Perhaps someone should as Miha about this.

[ChuckJaxFL]

The difference from Eric's extractor linkage and what you are doing, is Eric's linkage has the ability to toggle.

And his setups appear to be all steel on steel. I don't see any steel-brass on his site.


Your trying to stretch a rainbow until its straight.

I believe you'll eventually wear the keeper pin holes out of round.

That was my concern, too, but on a different "axis", I guess, than you're referring to. I was actually looking at the top pin and the bottom pin pulling the hollowpointing pin off-of-vertical, and causing wear to the holes that way. The mold halves pivot so easily on the mounting screws, I hadn't even considered pressure in the direction you're referring to.

What about the pin striking the opposite mold half before it goes into the channel?
Is my concern unfounded? I've used my mold for two sessions. How about you guys have have used these cramer style molds forever? Issue or non-issue?

[Moonie]

I can't say I've used mine forever but I haven't noticed any issue in about 2K boolits cast. I'll take a closer look at it this evening.

[justingrosche]

Chuck,
Well, I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong.
I had to see for myself, so I assembled my mold as you had, with the pins in opposing blocks. I failed to realize/ remember that the mold handle pins allow the blocks to rotate a bit. I was imagining in my mind that these were on a fixed plane.
I did see what you were talking about, where the pins dont center as well as they do when attach to the single block and it rubs the edge of the cavities pin recess. I dont think it will be a huge problem. Your aware of it and you'll know not to slam the blocks together, and galling the edge.
I have not cast with the mold assembled in this fashion but I'll give it a run in the near future when time allows.

This just goes to show that there are many different ways to skin a cat,and sometimes a fresh perspective is all you need to learn. Best of luck.
Justin

[Doc Highwall]

I wear gloves when I am casting and cut the sprue by hand and close the mould by hand so I do not think it would be a problem for me and my method. My idea is to treat the mould gently so it gives me a long service life of great bullets justifying the cost of it resulting in lower overall costs. OK I am still going to spend the money I saved casting on shooting, and because I am shooting more I am spending more, so am I really saving money? This sounds like an addiction to me.

[HATCH]

It worked for me.
I just tried it.
It is nice not to have to touch the pins. Just open it up and they drop right out.

[justingrosche]

It worked for me.
I just tried it.
It is nice not to have to touch the pins. Just open it up and they drop right out.
Where were you two days ago, before I put my foot in my mouth? LOL

[Gunsmoke4570]

That's what is great about this forum. You can find new ways of doing things you wouldn't have thought of otherwise!

[ChuckJaxFL]

...before I put my foot in my mouth? LOL

Funny that you look at it that way. I see that over 300 people have read this thread. Certainly SOME of them have other criticisms of setting up the pins like this. You're the only one who put a voice to his, though.

By the way, I picked up my el-cheapo hot plate from Harbor Freight today. Still need the thermometer.

And I think I've got my rythm down for using this mold. The only other HP mold I've ever used is my 401638HP. To use it, you have to run the pot "wide open throttle" and cast as feverishly fast as you can, which is what I tried to do with this one (thus the smears).

Today, I slowed it down to a very slow, easy... almost lazy pace. I didn't burn off the plate lube, and I even turned the furnace down to about 3/4 power. The tips still came out well-formed.

Casting at this pace certainly seemed to devalue my little trick.

[HATCH]

sorry, I just happen to be testing out my PID and read about this trick.
So it only took ten mins to do the pin swap.

I just put the brass mold directly on top of the hot lead for a couple mins.
Once the sprue plate starts to smoke a little bit its ready.

[MiHec]

Hmmmmmmm.......


Interesting idea :shock::shock::shock::shock:

I must sleep this over....:coffeecom

[Rhoa4396]

Hmmmmmmm.......


Interesting idea :shock::shock::shock::shock:

I must sleep this over....:coffeecom

When I get the chance, I'm going to have to try using a second set of pins at the same time, with each screwed in only half way so they suport on 'both' top and bottom from each side. :bigsmyl2: If it works it should solve 'any' problems of alignment.

Ken Rhoa
=========

[ChuckJaxFL]

If it works it should solve 'any' problems of alignment.

Ken Rhoa
=========

That it would! Let us know if there's enough thread engagement?

[L1A1Rocker]

Hmmmmmmm.......


Interesting idea :shock::shock::shock::shock:

I must sleep this over....:coffeecom

Did you give this idea any more consideration?

[MiHec]

Did you give this idea any more consideration?

Yes - I think it is ok to do this in 2 cavity molds.

I spoke to my "lathe" man to see if there is possibility to have "seats" on both sides.
Also I have idea to make the leading pins a bit different (they will have an option for allen key at the back).

The answer was yes, but from September on. He's ordering a new machine with more live tooling

[Moonie]

Miha, as always you are awesome.

[HATCH]

Yes - I think it is ok to do this in 2 cavity molds.

I spoke to my "lathe" man to see if there is possibility to have "seats" on both sides.
Also I have idea to make the leading pins a bit different (they will have an option for allen key at the back).

The answer was yes, but from September on. He's ordering a new machine with more live tooling


so instead of the C-clips you will have bolts that screw in?

To be honest, I will never cast a flat point using one of your HP molds.
There is no reason.
My makarov mold cast perfect boolits from day one. Its NICE

[Rhoa4396]

To be honest, I will never cast a flat point using one of your HP molds.

I occasionally do, and when I do it's nice having a boolit without a cavity parting line across its nose.

Ken R

[GP100man]

I can see myself gettin ham handed & bending or breaking a pin !

Maybe !!